Does God want you poor and sick?

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p_rehbein said:
To say that everything that happens in this world, to man is God's will, is to deny man's free will. To do that is to buy into the Calvinist ideology. Which, in and of itself, absolves all men from any personal responsibility for their actions/choices.

I will not buy into that ideology.

This "victimization of man" by God's will thinking is something I will not buy into. And there is no other way to explain it than the "victimization of man" by God's will going by the comments I have read here.
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I do not know. I thought this was a health wealth debate, not a calvin one.

so do you support health and wealth??
 
crossnote said:
Another strawman. Where in my quote did I say, "Everything that happens to man is God's will"?
I hope we can say everything that happens to man is allowed by God.
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Where did I say it was YOU saying that? All along you have been posting" "NO ONE IS BLAMING GOD."

Not, "I'm not blaming God."

There are several comments on this thread that clearly blame God for whatever happens to man.


Which is what I have been saying from the beginning on this thread............but that DOES NOT make everything that happens HIS FAULT.


Oh well..............enough already
 
atwhatcost said:
(Real question, not cockiness. Just thought I learned something else, and I might have learned from a bad teacher... or worse yet. Imagined it. lol) I thought the early church was more like a kibbutz. All the Jews were shunned from their friends, family and community for the obvious reason ("you believe who is God?"), so they had to develop their own community. And in joining that community you sold whatever you used to have and give the profits to the new community, and then kept on working for the benefits of all, instead of personal profit. And that's why God killed that couple for not giving all their profit. (I can never remember their names, except I think the guy's name starts with a C and the wife's name starts with an A. Might be wrong even with that.)
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,
Yes, later they had to take up collections for the Jerusalem saints. 2Cor chps 8 and 9.

Here's one of many links...

The Jerusalem Collection | Theology for Real Life
 
p_rehbein said:
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Where did I say it was YOU saying that? All along you have been posting" "NO ONE IS BLAMING GOD."

Not, "I'm not blaming God."

There are several comments on this thread that clearly blame God for whatever happens to man.


Which is what I have been saying from the beginning on this thread............but that DOES NOT make everything that happens HIS FAULT.


Oh well..............enough already
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agreed...


Beating a dead horse.jpg
 
Willie-T said:
Did you pray for your computer to fail this morning, and for your spouse to have an automobile accident?

Why not. Wouldn't you be better off, spiritually, after a few things like that happened?

We can sometimes get our spiritual noses stuck so far in the air, that we have a hard time seeing past them to read the true meaning of many passages.
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(No spitballs, because it no longer matters who is or isn't an antagonist today. lol)

Do you pray that your computer does work and your wife doesn't have an accident and you don't trip down the steps and you don't tweak your knee if you're picking something up, and, and, and...?

Assuming you can't pray for every conceivable event throughout a day, why would you think JIA would pray for those events?

Exactly what is wrong with "thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" as a prayer? His will is done on earth and in heaven whether we align with it or not. So, the best we can do is align our will so it doesn't send us spiraling if it is God's will our computer crashes, or it is his will that we bang our shin on the car or it is his will even if we keel over while nitpicking others online. Honestly? No matter what you think of others' faith, isn't the ultimate goal to do God's will, no matter what the circumstances are?

(And not getting snooty on you, especially since you just saw my semi-meltdown yesterday, because I thought God willed something, but, apparently he didn't.)
 
psychomom said:
the author must not be a baptist.

(okay, the sleep deprived ought not attempt to make jokes about a person's surname :))
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lol, the pastor I spoke of earlier, he was baptist :p I was a baptist all my life, until I went prodigal on God.
 
I've always seen it that, certainly, God is not double minded, is not the author of any sin or of unrighteous judgement, but, just as we were created with free wills that can turn either direction, it's God's will there's a dispensation where mankind, and Satan's, are allowed relative freedom to muck things up. This is pretty clear of the state of the world. I don't see this as inconsistent, that those who've rejected God and His ways may be allowed to hang themselves, then, and there's also a phenomenon the rain falls on the just and the unjust: we all suffer the fallen flesh. I don't believe we can reconcile God's will as being party to sin, though, that a whole lot happens He'd rather not happen, but, like Joseph, what the sinful meant as evil to him, God chose to make good of. Did the Lord tell the other eleven to envy Joseph, sell him into slavery, then lie to Jacob? I think not, but can the Lord make a debacle of Satan's plans? All the time!

Another thing, the kingdom of God is about the spiritual, eternal life, not focused on a temporal world ripe for judgement, scripture not indicating God's plan has our creature comforts and luxury at its heart, rather the most faithful of the first century church many martyred, if there's anything to tradition, but history the likes of Roman torches or devoured by beasts abundant. Christ laid down His life (and took it up again!), but it took murderous men to kill Him.

So, our creature comfort isn't always God's will, painfully obvious, that He uses means to His glory we can't understand the rightness of, like giving a go-ahead to bring disaster on Job, albeit at the hand of Satan. His ways are not our ways. Paul goes through an entire litany of deprivations and misfortunes, but which he gloried in, for the sake of Christ and the gospel. It is showing the power of God in His children, when we overcome what the natural man can't, is a witness to the world. Salvation would not have come, if the Lord had been focused on tiptoeing through the tulips, I'd say His passion pretty void of a worthy lifestyle to the carnal minded, the Joel Osteens, with their carnal gospel, for the self righteousness.

Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mark 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him. But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.
 
crossnote said:
We don't blame God. Going back to the Jerusalem saints obviously God allowed the famine which created the need...or is He impotent to send rain?
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Um, I blame God. It's his fault that we were comfortably middle-class. It's his fault some in my family are polo-pony rich. It's his fault Jesus died on that cross. It's his fault that fish was in the right place at the right time to swallow Jonah. It's his fault that big shady weed surrounded Jonah to give him shade while he pouted. And it's his fault the weed died. I blame God, because all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Therefore it's still God's fault for those caught on the top side of the Trade Center on September 11, 2001. It's his fault we're no longer middle-class. It's his fault we're both disabled. But it's a good kind of fault because all things means all things, God is glorious, and all things will end up working out that some of us spend eternity worshiping God in all his glory. He wins -- by his own fault, and for the good of some.

So, yeah, I blame God, but not in a negative way, (unless I'm having a temper tantrum, but he gets me over it), because it's a very good blame and a very good fault.
 
Reborn said:
Lol.
At first l thought, now l have to go rounds with my friends?!!
What's happening with this place?

I wouldn't go rounds with you anyway, l like to be able to walk away with a tiny bit of pride. :)

Now, if you'll excuse me l have to go buy a home gym to work on my six pack that l wash clothes for the poor on.
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Funny, since our "home gym" is where I hang washed clothes. lol
 
eternally-gratefull said:

so a dude drinks (although never gets drunk) and smokes every day of his adult life. He never gets lung or liver disease. He ends up dieing of natural causes when he was 93. Outlived most religious do gooders who did not drink or smoke. and won numerous people to Christ,

I take it Gods will had nothing to do determining this man did not get ill, while so many others did get ill..

Gods will means nothing.
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Sounds like you're describing George Burns. He drank every day, had a cigar most the time, and died when he was 100.
 
CeileDe said:
No problem. Think it is time for a break from this forum. Too much negativity to include me
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Really? I have you on ignore because of your self-righteousness and negativity. It's either your way or no way. Ever consider it's you? You're the one who told me I was in self-pity simply because I said it IS God's will that some of us aren't miraculously healed. NOW you say this forum is negative? Whoa, dude? Really?

(And if you're wondering why I saw this if you're on ignore, it's because EG was apologizing after you said you were moving on, but you didn't move on, so I got nosy.)
 
for me, and for us, when our Father put us together, through all the years of sufferings,
the good, the bad, the in-betweens....and up until the now-what-ever-happens dailys,
we've realized-been shown, slowly been taken outside-and away from our old-selves and our old-ways.

we're still journeying, but in a much better place, in so many ways.
being children of a Re-newer, a Re-builder,...
we'll never be able to count all of our blessings that came and come in so many different disguises.

none of us will ever truly know or completely understand Him until He allows, or perhaps we'll have
to wait until we get home.

but this we know for sure, we can't help but to love Him and we thank our Lord and Saviour with all that we are,
today and every day and for-ever.
 
atwhatcost said:
(No spitballs, because it no longer matters who is or isn't an antagonist today. lol)

Do you pray that your computer does work and your wife doesn't have an accident and you don't trip down the steps and you don't tweak your knee if you're picking something up, and, and, and...?

Assuming you can't pray for every conceivable event throughout a day, why would you think JIA would pray for those events?

Exactly what is wrong with "thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" as a prayer? His will is done on earth and in heaven whether we align with it or not. So, the best we can do is align our will so it doesn't send us spiraling if it is God's will our computer crashes, or it is his will that we bang our shin on the car or it is his will even if we keel over while nitpicking others online. Honestly? No matter what you think of others' faith, isn't the ultimate goal to do God's will, no matter what the circumstances are?

(And not getting snooty on you, especially since you just saw my semi-meltdown yesterday, because I thought God willed something, but, apparently he didn't .)
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Now, THAT I agree with wholeheartedly. Some of us foolishly think bad things are God's will for us..... when every single one of us knows exactly what the Bible states is God's will for us.
 
For sure God want us go to heaven.

God said it is easier for camel go to the eyes of needle than rich man go to heaven.

That why God doesn't want to compound

That is why God doesn't want His children rich then go to hell.
 
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