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You know I met a homeless man who has next to nothing it's a miracle he hasn't starved to death. He is dirt poor and no doubt he is sick all the time yet he was the richest man I have ever seen or known. Even in this terrible life he was given how he praises God all the time with every bit of his soul, his eyes light up and his heart seems like it's going to burst from his chest. He is truly rich indeed because he may be a poor man on earth but he is clearly a king in God's kingdom even as he lives and breaths here.
I saw the spirit and the heart of God in this man in such abundance, in a man who has nothing a man who is sick all the time a man who ppl look down upon every day as they drive by. So who is really poor here?
I saw the spirit and the heart of God in this man in such abundance, in a man who has nothing a man who is sick all the time a man who ppl look down upon every day as they drive by. So who is really poor here?
[h=2]Re: Does God want you poor and sick?[/h]
Just joining in...here's the simple answer:
No, God doesn't will any of us to be poor or sick.
Just joining in...here's the simple answer:
No, God doesn't will any of us to be poor or sick.
A
atwhatcost
Guest
Yo, babe. How quickly you forget. I thought God willed to give me back a repaired comfy chair that's good for my back. Instead he willed that I get stuck in a chair that hurts my back. By man's standards, he willed something that appears to be bad. By your standards too. So that "every single one of us knows exactly what the Bible state is God's will for us" is about as true as most other things that you've said in the last 24 hours on this site.
One of my favorite authors must have had you in mind when he wrote this.
The Old Man and the White Horse
Max Lucado (In the Eye of the Storm)
The Old Man and the White Horse
Once there was an old man who lived in a tiny village. Although poor, he was envied by all, for he owned a beautiful white horse. Even the king coveted his treasure. A horse like this had never been seen before – such was its splendor, its majesty, its strength.
People offered fabulous prices for the steed, but the old man always refused. “This horse is not a horse to me,” he would tell them. “It is a person. How could you sell a person? He is a friend, not a possession. How could you sell a friend.” The man was poor and the temptation was great. But he never sold the horse.
One morning he found that the horse was not in his stable. All the village came to see him. “You old fool,” they scoffed, “we told you that someone would steal your horse. We warned you that you would be robbed. You are so poor. How could you ever protect such a valuable animal? It would have been better to have sold him. You could have gotten whatever price you wanted. No amount would have been too high. Now the horse is gone and you’ve been cursed with misfortune.”
The old man responded, “Don’t speak too quickly. Say only that the horse is not in the stable. That is all we know; the rest is judgment. If I’ve been cursed or not, how can you know? How can you judge?”
The people contested, “Don’t make us out to be fools! We may not be philosophers, but great philosophy is not needed. The simple fact that your horse is gone is a curse.”
The old man spoke again. “All I know is that the stable is empty, and the horse is gone. The rest I don’t know. Whether it be a curse or a blessing, I can’t say. All we can see is a fragment. Who can say what will come next?”
The people of the village laughed. They thought that the man was crazy. They had always thought he was a fool; if he wasn’t, he would have sold the horse and lived off the money. But instead, he was a poor woodcutter, an old man still cutting firewood and dragging it out of the forest and selling it. He lived hand to mouth in the misery of poverty. Now he had proven that he was, indeed, a fool.
After fifteen days, the horse returned. He hadn’t been stolen; he had run away into the forest. Not only had he returned, he had brought a dozen wild horses with him. Once again, the village people gathered around the woodcutter and spoke. “Old man, you were right and we were wrong. What we thought was a curse was a blessing. Please forgive us.”
The man responded, “Once again, you go too far. Say only that the horse is back. State only that a dozen horses returned with him, but don’t judge. How do you know if this is a blessing or not? You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge? You read only one page of a book. Can you judge the whole book? You read only one word of one phrase. Can you understand the entire phrase?”
“Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. All you have is one fragment! Don’t say that this is a blessing. No one knows. I am content with what I know. I am not perturbed by what I don’t.”
“Maybe the old man is right,” they said to one another. So they said little. But down deep, they knew he was wrong. They knew it was a blessing. Twelve wild horses had returned. With a little work, the animals could be broken and trained and sold for much money.
The old man had a son, an only son. The young man began to break the wild horses. After a few days, he fell from one of the horses and broke both legs. Once again the villagers gathered around the old man and cast their judgments.
“You were right,” they said. “You proved you were right. The dozen horses were not a blessing. They were a curse. Your only son has broken both his legs, and now in your old age you have no one to help you. Now you are poorer than ever.”
The old man spoke again. “You people are obsessed with judging. Don’t go so far. Say only that my son broke his legs. Who knows if it is a blessing or a curse? No one knows. We only have a fragment. Life comes in fragments.”
It so happened that a few weeks later the country engaged in war against a neighboring country. All the young men of the village were required to join the army. Only the son of the old man was excluded, because he was injured. Once again the people gathered around the old man, crying and screaming because their sons had been taken. There was little chance that they would return. The enemy was strong, and the war would be a losing struggle. They would never see their sons again.
“You were right, old man,” They wept. “God knows you were right. This proves it. Your son’s accident was a blessing. His legs may be broken, but at least he is with you. Our sons are gone forever.”
The old man spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. No one knows. Say only this. Your sons had to go to war, and mine did not. No one knows if it is a blessing or a curse. No one is wise enough to know. Only God knows.”
The Old Man and the White Horse
Max Lucado (In the Eye of the Storm)
The Old Man and the White Horse
Once there was an old man who lived in a tiny village. Although poor, he was envied by all, for he owned a beautiful white horse. Even the king coveted his treasure. A horse like this had never been seen before – such was its splendor, its majesty, its strength.
People offered fabulous prices for the steed, but the old man always refused. “This horse is not a horse to me,” he would tell them. “It is a person. How could you sell a person? He is a friend, not a possession. How could you sell a friend.” The man was poor and the temptation was great. But he never sold the horse.
One morning he found that the horse was not in his stable. All the village came to see him. “You old fool,” they scoffed, “we told you that someone would steal your horse. We warned you that you would be robbed. You are so poor. How could you ever protect such a valuable animal? It would have been better to have sold him. You could have gotten whatever price you wanted. No amount would have been too high. Now the horse is gone and you’ve been cursed with misfortune.”
The old man responded, “Don’t speak too quickly. Say only that the horse is not in the stable. That is all we know; the rest is judgment. If I’ve been cursed or not, how can you know? How can you judge?”
The people contested, “Don’t make us out to be fools! We may not be philosophers, but great philosophy is not needed. The simple fact that your horse is gone is a curse.”
The old man spoke again. “All I know is that the stable is empty, and the horse is gone. The rest I don’t know. Whether it be a curse or a blessing, I can’t say. All we can see is a fragment. Who can say what will come next?”
The people of the village laughed. They thought that the man was crazy. They had always thought he was a fool; if he wasn’t, he would have sold the horse and lived off the money. But instead, he was a poor woodcutter, an old man still cutting firewood and dragging it out of the forest and selling it. He lived hand to mouth in the misery of poverty. Now he had proven that he was, indeed, a fool.
After fifteen days, the horse returned. He hadn’t been stolen; he had run away into the forest. Not only had he returned, he had brought a dozen wild horses with him. Once again, the village people gathered around the woodcutter and spoke. “Old man, you were right and we were wrong. What we thought was a curse was a blessing. Please forgive us.”
The man responded, “Once again, you go too far. Say only that the horse is back. State only that a dozen horses returned with him, but don’t judge. How do you know if this is a blessing or not? You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge? You read only one page of a book. Can you judge the whole book? You read only one word of one phrase. Can you understand the entire phrase?”
“Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. All you have is one fragment! Don’t say that this is a blessing. No one knows. I am content with what I know. I am not perturbed by what I don’t.”
“Maybe the old man is right,” they said to one another. So they said little. But down deep, they knew he was wrong. They knew it was a blessing. Twelve wild horses had returned. With a little work, the animals could be broken and trained and sold for much money.
The old man had a son, an only son. The young man began to break the wild horses. After a few days, he fell from one of the horses and broke both legs. Once again the villagers gathered around the old man and cast their judgments.
“You were right,” they said. “You proved you were right. The dozen horses were not a blessing. They were a curse. Your only son has broken both his legs, and now in your old age you have no one to help you. Now you are poorer than ever.”
The old man spoke again. “You people are obsessed with judging. Don’t go so far. Say only that my son broke his legs. Who knows if it is a blessing or a curse? No one knows. We only have a fragment. Life comes in fragments.”
It so happened that a few weeks later the country engaged in war against a neighboring country. All the young men of the village were required to join the army. Only the son of the old man was excluded, because he was injured. Once again the people gathered around the old man, crying and screaming because their sons had been taken. There was little chance that they would return. The enemy was strong, and the war would be a losing struggle. They would never see their sons again.
“You were right, old man,” They wept. “God knows you were right. This proves it. Your son’s accident was a blessing. His legs may be broken, but at least he is with you. Our sons are gone forever.”
The old man spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. No one knows. Say only this. Your sons had to go to war, and mine did not. No one knows if it is a blessing or a curse. No one is wise enough to know. Only God knows.”
Yeah but what you and others seem to suggest is that they were not victorious despite the afflictions they suffered.
You espouse a doctrine that states I should wallow in my afflictions to show the Lord how humble I can be!!!
That is not even close to what Jesus taught or preached.
Paul suffered greatly, but he was never filled with false humility, he never wallowed in his trials!. You never saw him moping around saying woe are my afflictions but Jesus loves me and I am showing him how humble I am
He glorified God in his weakness, smoked the enemy, spread the Gospel and made tents!
Psalm 34.19 says:
Many are the afflictions of the righteous,
but the Lord delivers him out of them all.
I have seen a lot of post lately that would suggest that some believe God wants believers to be poor and sick....Now I know some are trying to counter what they believe is false teaching, but you cant throw away the blessings and promises of God, just because you believe someone is misusing the truth.
"The blessing of the Lord maketh rich and adds no sorrow".... Its absolute biblical truth that can be defended point by point.
"by His stripes, we are healed" ..is absolute biblical truth that can be defended point by point.
Now if anyone wants to be sick and poor, I will pray for you
If anyone wants to discuss these issue in a godly and respectful way? I will be glad to have that discussion
(about to go to work) so it might be later
God wants you Holy - end of discussion
Let me ask, can harboring unforgiveness have a a physical affect on your body?
Jesus said it is easier for camel go to eyes of the needle than a rich man go to heaven.
Abraham able to go to the eye of needle, so he go to heaven.
M
Mitspa
Guest
I agree in large part with this, but I have never had the Lord hold back any promise from me, but I have had to grow into the place where I could receive and understand the will of God in His giving. The errant mind is renewed unto the word of God and the Word of God refutes the philosophies of men. So I stand firm in the premise of my first post, that indeed God is good and gracious and rewarder of those that earnestly seek Him...every promises being yes and Amen in Christ.
M
Mitspa
Guest
M
Mitspa
Guest
M
Mitspa
Guest
Interesting that the more traditionally legalistic saints...had to depend upon the Gentile churches, who only knew the grace that Paul taught.
2Co 9:6 ¶ But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;
M
Mitspa
Guest
Made it to page two before the insults started 
I am not defending the gospel of greed...I hate that many have made the truth into covetousness.....yet the truth remains as it is written.
Pr 10:22 ¶ The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it.
I am not defending the gospel of greed...I hate that many have made the truth into covetousness.....yet the truth remains as it is written.
Pr 10:22 ¶ The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it.
M
Mitspa
Guest
Go to work every day, get my exercise there...don't own the bank one dime, but do have a little they keep for me.
Im not rich, but I have the blessing of the Lord that the bible clearly defines in evident terms. For which Im am thankful and not ashamed...
M
Mitspa
Guest
Billy you have always been one of the more honest folks on this forum...do you think these things are what Jesus came to give us?
Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
M
Mitspa
Guest
God wants you Holy - end of discussion
God wants us to believe and walk in the truth of His Word, which is true holiness and there is no other.
Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
8 ¶ Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:
11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
M
Mitspa
Guest
Ps 37:25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
A
atwhatcost
Guest
Might want to check out Max Lucado's material guidelines before you willy-nilly re-post one of his stories on another site. It means something to be an author. At least respect that.