How are we supposed to love God?

[just-me]

Here's a thread on the Hebrew Roots movement:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/114698-hebrew-roots-movement.html

With regards to you, if you aren't asserting that Old Covenant elements such as Sabbath, festivals, and clean/unclean meat laws apply to New Covenant Christians, I apologize. There are groups such as Hebrew Roots, Armstrongites, and others who are doing this on the forum.

I was the second post on that thread. read it. http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/114698-hebrew-roots-movement.html#post2095906
Thanks for the site, but I would rather hear, or read what you think of them, maybe by a PM rather than derail this thread. You have my curiosity up now.

I looked up Armstrongism (which I have never heard of), and it "is a term, usually considered derisive, (expressing contempt or ridicule) used to refer to the teachings and doctrines of Herbert W. Armstrong while leader of the Worldwide Church of God (WCG), and is professed by him and his followers to be the restored true Gospel of the Bible." I have heard of Herbert W. Armstrong however.

see post #26.We have already addressed the "Sabbath, festivals, and clean/unclean meat laws" that I have never mentioned on this thread. It has been only you who brought that up out of 'who knows where'.

 

[just-me]

One of the greatest perversions accomplished against the Word of God was to superimpose a false religious definition of love based on Church theology which, in the eyes of millions of Christians, has rendered the Torah (God's instructions) null and void. The unpleasant realities of “Christian love” through the centuries have spoken volumes in times when “Christian nations” like Spain, Germany and Poland brought hatred upon Jews and other races or religions that were not “Christian.” Today members of the World Council of Churches are launching new crusades against the Jewish “occupation” of their homeland of Israel – the very lands God gave to the Israeli people as an “everlasting possession” (Genesis 15:18); and from which He promised they would never again be removed. (Amos 9:15)

 

[just-me]

Christian love is fashioned after “tolerance,” rather than temperance, self control, discipline accordingly to one another and the Word of God. Crime and decadence has escalated in “Christian nations” like the USA that would embarrass Sodom and Gomorrah. Jesus said that the land of Sodom would fair better than some cities that had the truth presented to them but rejected it (Matthew 11:23-24) The United States has claimed to be led by “Christians” presidents and approximately 65 percent of the nation claims to be Christian. The reality is that Christian America has one of the largest per capita crime rates in the world and twice the homicide and rape statistics of many European countries, under presumed “Christian” leadership (a government of the people and by the people).

What's more, is that Christians have an extremely high divorce rate simply because Christianity has defined love according to man's opinions. Most Christian leaders teach that the Torah (instructions in righteousness) is taboo because “Jesus nailed it to the cross” and gave them the commandment of love, so they teach lawlessness for the “forgiven.” Sin is hidden under “Christian grace” because the new “Christian definition” of love provides unlimited pardon of willful and repetitive sin. Religious “Christian” love is based on doublethink that replaces God's love with religious tradition about love, but in reality this has desensitized people's hearts to one another and to Jesus Christ. In reality this kind of Christian love is tyranny because it is simply love of the status quo; it is certainly not love according to Messiah and the “Set Apart” scripture.

 

[just-me]

The prophet Daniel wrote, “And I prayed unto the Lord my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;” (Daniel 9:4)

Israel broke the covenant that God gave, just like Christianity is breaking the renewed covenant that is offered in Christ. The covenant is evidenced by an exchange of love between God and His people, but is incumbent upon mankind to love God and to demonstrate love to others by keeping the commandments.

James wrote, “If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:” (James 2:8)

The majority of Christian theologians translate the word “fulfill” as “bring to an end” but it clearly means to bring to a reality, perform and do, as in a person's duty to love their spouse by their actions, where the actions of love is love demonstrated. To fulfill the “righteousness of the law”, as Paul said in Romans 8:4, means to have the love of the Father dwelling within the soul, and this means to not only welcome God the Father's commandments but to delight in them as obedient children.

“Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.” (John 15:13-14) Jesus speaks according to the Spirit of God in Him rather than His own soul; therefore “whatsoever I command you” is specifically referring to God's instructions in righteousness known to us as the Torah. “For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.” (John 12:49)

 

[atwhatcost]

Scripture tells us how to love God, and there are many places in the Bible to find that instruction. Many people might want to post that we are supposed to love God with all out heart, mind, and soul. This is true, but in no way is detailed information. These entities of heart, mind, and soul work as one because we are made in 'Their image.' Genesis 1:26

The heart, mind, and soul are entities that function together as motivation, thought, and discernment.

The questions are then;

"Where do we find the information that will motivate us in the correct direction according to God's will?"

"What instructions in righteousness are we given that invoke the mind and soul correctly and not carnally?"

"How are we supposed know how to love God?"

Don't just give opinion. Accompany your opinion with scripture to confirm your opinion. Please be as definitive as you can, and try to stay away from generic posts. We are to edify one another.

Here is one verse to begin. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" 2 Timothy 3:16

Close to bedtime, so mind isn't going to cooperate on gather scriptures now, but this is me being sneaky and bring this thread back up to the front page.

Bump.

(How am I at sneaky? lol)

 

[atwhatcost]

Same questions I've been wondering as I study the Pentateuch. Same reason I keep trying to figure out what the Levites are supposed to do, considering there were only three priests in the wilderness, but 7,500 male Levites. (All males, not just the 20 and older census of the rest of the tribes.) And I'm picking on the Levites in particular, because they really were set aside by God to serve and honor him. After all, isn't that the definition of love when it comes to what we're supposed to do all the time?

So, I'm just beginning to get there for an answer. While Leviticus tells us the structure of the tabernacle and what the three priest are supposed to do, it never answered what the rest of the Levites are supposed to do. (I'm baffled by that. You'd think this would be covered completely in a book titled "Leviticus, wouldn't you? Well, at least I thought so. lol) I'm into Numbers 3 now. NOW it's getting to the nitty gritty of what they're supposed to do. It's only the beginning of the book, and if it's anything like Exodus and Leviticus, much of the information will be dispersed here and there with some specifics on the commandment cases in between. (No one's taught me this, but I'm beginning to think Exodus, Deuteronomy, Numbers and Leviticus are Moses' law ledgers -- his law books -- that he added to so the cases showed up, so no one has to figure out this stuff more than once. But, in doing it that way, plus the age old problem of "we only had pieces of older scrolls to work with and they fell apart, so who is to say we put them in proper older eons later" problem, it's kind of disheveled, albeit in perfect order according to God kind of thing.)

BUT, this is what I'm getting so far because this is what the Levites were set aside to do:
We got your laborers, your crafters, your temple keepers and your instructors. Some were hand delivered by special appointment, while the rest of us do what we can in whatever skill set we have to forever work for God out of love.

In God's mind, it's just as important for some of the men to roll up the tabernacle curtains and lug them to the next camp before putting them up again, as it was to make those curtains with the pretty cherubim on them as it is to sacrifice a goat because someone is so very thankful to God.

It's only Man who goes off thinking the goat sacrificers are more important than the curtain makers and the curtain makers are more important than the curtain protectors.

So, we love God by dedicating our service to him in any which way we can do that.

At least, that's what I'm getting so far, but like I said, I'm only in Numbers 3, so I could be wrong. If I am, it's personal prejudice. I've been called to nothing more important than curtain carrying. lol

 

[atwhatcost]

My guess is this is headed toward another lecture about the need to keep non-moral elements of the Old Covenant.

I John 3: 19By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; 20for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. 21Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. 23And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God,[SUP]d[/SUP] and God[SUP]e[/SUP] in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

Notice that these verses define "his commandment" as loving one another and placing one's faith in Jesus Christ.

Ever hear of "leading questions"?

Speaking of leading questions, did you read those first two verses you copy-pasted? You weren't practicing what you preached.

If you assume someone is doing something for devious reasons, then don't participate instead of prove-a-point. It sure beats condemning for a "my guess."

 

[atwhatcost]

Oops..Jesus forgot keeping the Sabbath, feast days, unclean meats, triple tithing

And poof! You prove your agenda right after condemning what you think his agenda might be.

 

[atwhatcost]

A big amen to you both!!



Although scriptures clearly define love, it has been given all manner of modern definition by various institutions and religions. Most souls think of love according to its attributes because love is rather difficult to define. Many Christians assert that “God is love” and one of the popular cliche's is to “just love the Lord.” But the manner of how one “ loves the Lord” brings up much opinion and debate, especially since Christians often teach a love that is quit the opposite of what scripture teaches.

For example, “By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.” (1 John 5:2-4)

The definition of love is best understood through Christ's life and teaching.

“If ye love me, keep my commandments. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 14:15, John 14:21, and John 15:10)

Everyone keeps talking about his commandments. I'm feeling a bit embarrassed knowing I don't keep them. I honestly don't even know how to keep some to keep them even if I could keep them.

Honor God? Well, yeah, but how?

No false images? Is a photograph a false image? Is it a real image? Is it okay to have pictures in the house? How about Hummel Figurines? How about a statue of Jesus or Mary? And, how do we have statues of Jesus if we don't even know what he looks like? And that lamb and lion illustration/statue? If the Israelites got in serious trouble with making a gold calf just because they wanted something better than a cloud to image God by, why aren't we getting wiped out for religious displays?

And, that's just the first two commandments. There are eight more that I don't necessarily get fully to follow them, and even if I did? Ummm, I don't. I do think one of my brothers is a fool. How in the world do I stop thinking that, because Jesus equated that to killing someone.

So, we all say "just follow the commandments," but, yo? It's not that easy!!! And if we can't, how good are we doing in the loving God commandment?

 

[atwhatcost]

Yes, and those commandments are the ones that apply to Christians under the New Covenant, not ancient Israelites under the Old Covenant.

Well, cool, then. I no longer have to honor God? That just made it a lot easier.

Unfortunately, it made me turn into a nonbeliever too.

 

[atwhatcost]

This thread is just another attempt of Sabbath/festival/clean unclean meats guys to proclaim their doctrines again. It's a broken record.

The Old Covenant was an agreement between God and the nation of Israel (Ex. 31:12-17).The Ten Commandments are a summary of the Old Covenant (Ex 31:18, 34:28; Deut 4:13, 9:9, 11).The Old Covenant is no longer in effect for anyone (2 Cor 3:4-18, Gal 3:17-25, Heb 8:13-9:4).The Sabbath, therefore, is not in effect for anyone (Gal 4:10, Rom 14:5-6, Col 2:16-17).Christians are under the New Covenant, which has higher demands and different commandments (Luke 22:20, Heb 9:15; Jn 13:34, 15:12, 17; Rom 13:10).The chief of those commandments is to love others as Christ loved us (Jn 13:34).

Then stop making it all about YOU! That's on you, not Just-me. Get over yourself. Big deal. You learned the Sabbath doesn't save you. One step. Now all you have to do is figure out you don't save you either.

 

[atwhatcost]

back to the law again.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]‘And if you offer a sacrifice of a peace offering to the Lord, you shall offer it of your own free will. [SUP]6 [/SUP]It shall be eaten the same day you offer it, and on the next day. And if any remains until the third day, it shall be burned in the fire. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And if it is eaten at all on the third day, it is an abomination. It shall not be accepted. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore everyone who eats it shall bear his iniquity, because he has profaned the hallowed offering of the Lord; and that person shall be cut off from his people.

so this is how we love our neighbor??

other than this, I did not say anything which showed me how to love my neighbor. All I saw was a bunch of do not do's that is not instructions, that is warnings.

Loving is an action word. You love someone by doing something FOR THEM. (action) not by NOT DOING SOMETHING to THEM.

I can not love a lady, and even hate her, yet never think of coveting, or sleeping with her. thats just nonsense saying that is how to love..

Exactly what do you think Jesus was teaching when he said even thinking about a woman and you've committed adultery means, if he wasn't pointing right smack to HIS commandments?

And what do you think he was pointing to when he said even calling your brother a fool is killing if he wasn't pointing right back to HIS commandments?

And what do those ten commandments say -- all ten of them except to love God fully and love others fully?

Those commands didn't die. They were fulfilled in Christ, because they truly have never been fulfilled in any of us, that's for sure.

And in loving God fully and loving others fully that IS the ten commandments.

You don't get away from The Big Ten simply by skipping the OT. Jesus IS the OT as much as he IS the NT

It's God. It's God. It's God. I wasn't kidding yesterday! It's ALWAYS God, Ten Commandments, Two Commandments, Jesus, the Bible, all of it -- GOD! This is what we're supposed to be aiming for.

 

[atwhatcost]

news flash. If you love God and your neighbor (the way God loved us, and the way Christ loved all he came around) you do not need lev 16, the ten commandment, or any other rule and regulation God gave, You will fulfill those commands, not because God gave them to you, but because Love does not hurt, love does not steel, love does not covet, love does not do anything, but serve, give and heal.

this law keeping way of loving god and neighbor is just another way to push law down our throats, and take away from what is really important.

Serve others, stop thinking of self (which are what the commandments do. force us to think of self. how good am I, How am I doing this, How I........) and you will not have to worry. God will let you know when you mess up.

IF! Do you IF? Do you even know what IF looks like?

News flash! None of us ever IFFED!

So, guess what? Since we didn't, Jesus did, and the only way we know what Jesus did was to understand that law you snub your nose at to do it like he did it and then hover around him because we never ever, nor will we ever ever without Christ in us, accomplish IF!

I am absolutely appalled at how many Christians are on this thread trying desperately to avoid those Ten Commandments. If not them, what's the difference between us and nonbelievers... but a holier-than-thou attitude with nothing to back it up with, because what backs it up is halfway invisible!

Avoid the Old and you'll never get the New.

 

[atwhatcost]

I remember growing up kids who hated their parents, but would always obey their commands because of the fear of punishment (let the beatings commence)

if obeying commands was how to love, these kids were the greatest lover of their parents than most kids, even though they hated them.

A person who loves does not need to be told over an dover to be home at 8, he is told once, and his being home is not out of some duty, it is out of love, the command does not even come into the picture.

the only people who need to keep focusing on the commands are those who have not been lead by the commands to christ yet. they need them to prove to them, there are non righteous no not one, for all have sinned and fall short. and be led by the schoolmaster to Christ.

You do not teach a child of God the comand do not covet. You teach a child of God how to love and praise God for all his neighbor has been given.. to love outwardly and not think of self. and the command do not covet is automatically obeyed without even being told. because it is no longer needed.

Pffft! The biggest pile of hooey I've seen yet, and yes, I read that thread when some homosexual was trying to tell us homosexuality is okay.

 

[atwhatcost]

yeah, I saw the trap but gave an answer I knew wouldn't be approved by the legalists

I'd rather be a legalist than an anarchist.

 

[atwhatcost]

then when are you going to start preaching truth, and not the lie of judaism?

And what are you preaching but your own personal gospel? At least God raised up Judah!

 

[atwhatcost]

Here's a thread on the Hebrew Roots movement:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/114698-hebrew-roots-movement.html

With regards to you, if you aren't asserting that Old Covenant elements such as Sabbath, festivals, and clean/unclean meat laws apply to New Covenant Christians, I apologize. There are groups such as Hebrew Roots, Armstrongites, and others who are doing this on the forum.

This is the second time you apologized for the same thing. You should apologize. When will you get to the point of realizing your accusations are unfounded so you can give up hurling them and finally, REALLY apologize (instead of pretending to in the middle of another volley)...and then seek some forgiveness too?

 

[fredjames]

Scripture tells us how to love God, and there are many places in the Bible to find that instruction. Many people might want to post that we are supposed to love God with all out heart, mind, and soul. This is true, but in no way is detailed information. These entities of heart, mind, and soul work as one because we are made in 'Their image.' Genesis 1:26

The heart, mind, and soul are entities that function together as motivation, thought, and discernment.

The questions are then;

"Where do we find the information that will motivate us in the correct direction according to God's will?"

"What instructions in righteousness are we given that invoke the mind and soul correctly and not carnally?"

"How are we supposed know how to love God?"

Don't just give opinion. Accompany your opinion with scripture to confirm your opinion. Please be as definitive as you can, and try to stay away from generic posts. We are to edify one another.

Here is one verse to begin. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" 2 Timothy 3:16

In the, "All Scripture ..............................", we have learned by the the 'Help' of the HOLY SPIRIT the HOLY BIBLE, who have been 'imparted' as the 'anointing' placed in us, who taught us clearly who are we to 'listen to' for 'direction to Heaven' and in which 'made Covenant/Testament' we are 'alive' and 'living in and accordingly in 'practice' and 'abiding' and 'bearing much fruit', for the Kingdom of GOD'?

 

[atwhatcost]

One of the greatest perversions accomplished against the Word of God was to superimpose a false religious definition of love based on Church theology which, in the eyes of millions of Christians, has rendered the Torah (God's instructions) null and void. The unpleasant realities of “Christian love” through the centuries have spoken volumes in times when “Christian nations” like Spain, Germany and Poland brought hatred upon Jews and other races or religions that were not “Christian.” Today members of the World Council of Churches are launching new crusades against the Jewish “occupation” of their homeland of Israel – the very lands God gave to the Israeli people as an “everlasting possession” (Genesis 15:18); and from which He promised they would never again be removed. (Amos 9:15)

Israel was taken away from Israel by God in the first century. He gave them up as his people to bring about a new people -- those who belong to Christ.

After WWII the Brits (with plenty of help from the rest of the Allies) stole land from others (and tried to steal more but Syria wouldn't have it) to reestablish a long dead country. They have.

The country is a bit older than I am now, so they get what they were handed and have all rights to fight to keep it. BUT they are not God's Israel. They are an Israel. Wars gain and lose lands. This is nothing more than that. I wish Israel the best, because they are the stability of that region, but I don't think they are anything special to God.

Not to mention, this is supposed to be about how to love God, not Politics 101.

 

[atwhatcost]

Christian love is fashioned after “tolerance,” rather than temperance, self control, discipline accordingly to one another and the Word of God. Crime and decadence has escalated in “Christian nations” like the USA that would embarrass Sodom and Gomorrah. Jesus said that the land of Sodom would fair better than some cities that had the truth presented to them but rejected it (Matthew 11:23-24) The United States has claimed to be led by “Christians” presidents and approximately 65 percent of the nation claims to be Christian. The reality is that Christian America has one of the largest per capita crime rates in the world and twice the homicide and rape statistics of many European countries, under presumed “Christian” leadership (a government of the people and by the people).

What's more, is that Christians have an extremely high divorce rate simply because Christianity has defined love according to man's opinions. Most Christian leaders teach that the Torah (instructions in righteousness) is taboo because “Jesus nailed it to the cross” and gave them the commandment of love, so they teach lawlessness for the “forgiven.” Sin is hidden under “Christian grace” because the new “Christian definition” of love provides unlimited pardon of willful and repetitive sin. Religious “Christian” love is based on doublethink that replaces God's love with religious tradition about love, but in reality this has desensitized people's hearts to one another and to Jesus Christ. In reality this kind of Christian love is tyranny because it is simply love of the status quo; it is certainly not love according to Messiah and the “Set Apart” scripture.

If you think what America has become now would embarrass S & G, you don't have a handle on how bad S & G was, nor how bad America used to be.

On the other hand, I do agree that love has become tolerance too much in Christianity, because, apparently, that OT was no big thang.