Pride goes before destruction
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No, one is self righteous when they:
(a) Go outside God's Commandments. One can do this by making certain commands that are a requirement when they are no longer binding anymore (Like the Law of Moses). Others try to make certain ceremonies as having to do with salvation like baptism (When baptism is merely a public profession of one's faith in Chrst and it is done as an answer as having a good conscience before God).
(b) Point out how great they are all the time and they keep putting down others by personally attacking them.
(c) You think you are better than them (Which can be seen in Luke 18:9-14).
As for sinless perfectionism: Well, that is the goal of every believer in this life. There are many verses that teach we can stop sinning. Just check out this video here:
[VIDEO=youtube;-AQtoN_HdIo]https://youtu.be/-AQtoN_HdIo[/VIDEO]
(a) Go outside God's Commandments. One can do this by making certain commands that are a requirement when they are no longer binding anymore (Like the Law of Moses). Others try to make certain ceremonies as having to do with salvation like baptism (When baptism is merely a public profession of one's faith in Chrst and it is done as an answer as having a good conscience before God).
(b) Point out how great they are all the time and they keep putting down others by personally attacking them.
(c) You think you are better than them (Which can be seen in Luke 18:9-14).
As for sinless perfectionism: Well, that is the goal of every believer in this life. There are many verses that teach we can stop sinning. Just check out this video here:
[VIDEO=youtube;-AQtoN_HdIo]https://youtu.be/-AQtoN_HdIo[/VIDEO]
K
You avoided to answer my question and came back with one of your own........
I already explained 1 John 1:8 and 2:4, as 2:4 does not say a person will not sin again !!!
If you take and walk properly in the faith and then one day steal something, yes you have broken a commandment, but if you repent of it then your are still keeping with the commandments. Salvation is not hindered, lost, or forfeited...So you can not use 1 John 2:4 to say a person will never sin again.
Nor can you use the verses of 1 John 3:9, 5:18 because the context of those verses are about willful habitual unrepented sins.
The fruits of the Spirit will be evident in a believers life, but once again this does not say a person will not sin again.
Even John recognized that believers can and will sin again, but it can not be done in the form of willful habitual sin that carries no true repentance or no repentance at all.
Holiness is about walking in the gospel teachings of Christ, and one of those commands is repentance......
As long as a person adhears to the repentance when they stumble then the Lord will present them blameless and without spot in front of God. Lord's blood makes us holy and spotless when we repent of our sins, this is not speaking once again that a sin will never be committed again in ones life.
The change from the old creation to a new creation is going from a habitual sinner with no sorrow or repentance, to a person who feels Godly sorrow that leads them to repent of their ways. And then from here when they do sin again they repent/confess that sin to be forgiven. If you try to make one scripture in 1 John say a believer will never sin again then you will have it contradict other scriptures from the same epistle where John shows he knows we can and will sin again.
K
Sinless perfection maybe the goal but that total perfection once again does not come tell the day of redemption.
Sorry I don't watch video's if the person is speaking the same as you that a person has to be 100% sin free/perfect in this life to get salvation. You condemn a lot of people the Lord can and will have mercy on by a statement like that.
The bible shows that if you condemn people by your words then you are passing judgment, and states in the manner in which you judge others you will be judged. And the actually word condemned does not have to be used in order for the same style of judgment to be expressed.
If you preach and teach a gospel of showing a standard that you are better than another, which is what sinless perfection for salvation does then that places you as better then others. That is a doctrine of the Pharisees, claiming and showing to be perfect on the outside, but inside you are still filthy. White washed tombs !!!
Lord Jesus shows instead of going around claiming to be perfect as the Pharisees did, we are to acknowledge we are sinners like Matthew did....................
Luke 18:13
"But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!'
We are to work toward perfection, but claiming to be perfect to others comes from pride !!!
K
Here he is.
No, actually I agree with most of this, Ken.
I'm glad you're stepping over to our side and now believe OSAS is the truth.
The view is crystal clear from over here, isnt it?
No, actually I agree with most of this, Ken.
I'm glad you're stepping over to our side and now believe OSAS is the truth.
The view is crystal clear from over here, isnt it?
Do not go that far and say I believe in OSAS......Because I don't believe in a doctrine that was started in the 1500's
But the other thing like I said is I don't agree with Jason's doctrine either because he does not know how to discern from habitual sin and sin done when one stumbles....He lumps them both together, and also takes forgivable sins and makes them unforgivable...........
OSAS started in the 1500's by John Calvin and the doctrine teaching of eternal security originated out of his teachings....Before then and especially in the 1st 2 centuries of the early church this concept was not even heard of or taught....
He presents Scripture. To be a good Berean we have to keep an open mind to the Scriptures and see whether those things be so or not.
Anyways, if you will refuse to see his video: What do you make of these verses?
"For we ourselves also were once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another." (TItus 3:3).
"Thorns and snares are in the path of the wicked:
whoever guards his soul stays from them." (Proverbs 22:5).
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will (2 Timothy 2:26).
"Once you were alienated from God and you were enemies with him in your minds, which was shown by your evil actions." (Colossians 1:21).
"For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;" (1 Thessalonians 1:9).
"We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loves not his brother abides in death. Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:14-15).
"And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in wickedness" (1 John 5:19).
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother." (1 John 3:10).
"For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do--living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry." (1 Peter 4:3).
"Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them." (Colossians 3:5-7).
"But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger" (Romans 2:8).
"As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance," (1 Peter 1:14).
"He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathers not with me scatters abroad" (Matthew 12:30).
"He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48).
"But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you." (Romans 6:17).
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11).
Also, you have to take note that I am not claiming to be perfect. I am merely saying that we as believers can be perfect and we can stop sinning because the Bible does teach that (Whether you agree with it or not).
Also, I do not condemn anyone. The Word of God will do that. Not me.
Anyways, if you will refuse to see his video: What do you make of these verses?
"For we ourselves also were once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another." (TItus 3:3).
"Thorns and snares are in the path of the wicked:
whoever guards his soul stays from them." (Proverbs 22:5).
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will (2 Timothy 2:26).
"Once you were alienated from God and you were enemies with him in your minds, which was shown by your evil actions." (Colossians 1:21).
"For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;" (1 Thessalonians 1:9).
"We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loves not his brother abides in death. Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:14-15).
"And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in wickedness" (1 John 5:19).
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother." (1 John 3:10).
"For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do--living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry." (1 Peter 4:3).
"Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them." (Colossians 3:5-7).
"But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger" (Romans 2:8).
"As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance," (1 Peter 1:14).
"He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathers not with me scatters abroad" (Matthew 12:30).
"He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48).
"But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you." (Romans 6:17).
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11).
Also, you have to take note that I am not claiming to be perfect. I am merely saying that we as believers can be perfect and we can stop sinning because the Bible does teach that (Whether you agree with it or not).
Also, I do not condemn anyone. The Word of God will do that. Not me.
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I believe the early beginnings of OSAS started with the gnostic belief as mentioned in John's 1st epistle. Also, Augustine (A Catholic priest) also helped to lay the foundation for Eternal Security, as well.
A HISTORICAL EXAMINATION
A HISTORICAL EXAMINATION
K
You again are speaking of habitual sin here when you state that, if a person continues to be the sinful person they were before that is habitual sin. A person who is a believer in Christ that stumbles here or there in sin then repents of it is not a habitual sinner........................Go pray to God for understanding in this, and learn the difference by the Holy Spirit then come back and debate......Because you still do not understand habitual and stumble....
Habitual sin is doing it non-stop. But the believer's life also has to line up with the rest of Scripture, though. See James 2:17 and Hebrews 12:14. For a double minded man is double minded in all he does. For God never approves of even one sin for a believer. Ananais and Sapphira had been killed because they lied to the Spirit. A fear fell upon the church and all who heard it. Now, if they were saved, why on Earth would they fear? It would not make any sense. Death for the Christian is a celebration because they get to be with Christ. Fear does not make sense unless they went to hell. This was one sin and not habitual sin. In fact, we know one sin (even by your own beliefs) that can send someone to hell. The sin of speaking bad against the Spirit.
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