Nine dead in Charleston church shooting

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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#61
Had someone in that crowd had a gun the outcome may have been different.You can take every handgun out of the hands of gun owners and all you do is make them vulnerable to these nutcases.What if someone had a concealed weapon during that theater shooting? Taking away the guns from the innocent solves nothing.Not to mention if anyone thinks this maniac would use a knife,a bomb an ax for pity sake to accomplish his evil plan they are sorely mistaken.Evil will find a way and a gun is only one tool that can be used in committing a crime. Secondly,ask the Jews how gun control works.Hitler used gun control to corral and kill 6 million innocent souls. Evil finds a way.
Precisely what happened at New Life Church in Colorado Springs eight years ago. Thank God for Jeanne Asam, the unnamed guard in the initial news stories.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#62
I agree with all you said except the young man being a victim.He made a choice he must face the consequences.He is no victim and should not be classed with those who were the actual victims.
Well I'm going to wait and see but I suspect he never really had a chance to be a productive citizen.

He will reap that which he has sown. I will pity him and mourn what he could have been had he made Christ his Savior. Satan delights in destruction and this young man is an example of just how horrific the consequences of sin are in truth.

I only hope those he murdered were genuine Christians and not the Christians produced by the gospel of social justice. The history of that church and the related information about the church denomination causes me great concern.

For now let them mourn the dead in peace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jun 10, 2015
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#63
So where do you stop confiscating once you start? After you've decided that small arms that can be hidden from view should be banned, do you then decide large caliber guns also need to go, because "they leave too big a hole"?

And as Des said, what makes you think you can't hide a shotgun or kill nine people with one? If you don't know anything about guns -- and you don't -- then you probably should be disqualified from having any say in how they should be regulated.



You're right, I do NOT know anything about guns, and I pray to God I never have to. But you're saying I should probably be disqualified from having any say in how they should be regulated... But the government says I'm fully within my rights to go out and get one. That's a conundrum.
 

skipp

Senior Member
Mar 6, 2014
654
7
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#64
I only hope those he murdered were genuine Christians and not the Christians produced by the gospel of social justice. The history of that church and the related information about the church denomination causes me great concern.
Roger
To be fair most American churches seem more concerned with politics and social justice (which can also be social conservative causes) than anything else. I don't see any difference between a church like this and the Southern Baptist church down my street that's always trying to drum up Republican voters. Two sides of the same coin.
 
Jun 10, 2015
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#65
I hesitate to get into a gun debate, and I sincerely understand your frustration and anger at all the gun related murders, but one question NEVER gets answered by those advocating gun control. That is, How do you take the guns away from the criminals? By definition they BREAK THE LAW. And this applies to hand guns as well. So the moment law abiding citizens have to turn in their weapons, you are literally telling the criminals that there is no fear of a good person having the ability to defend themselves. Can you give me a logical answer to that question? I pray God would heal all our hearts in this mess. Peace to you Brother.

I would honestly have to say the only thing that would make sense to me is to legalize medicines the DEA has labeled "Illicit drugs". Violence and "illicit drugs" go hand in hand. Allow people to cultivate or businesses to grow and sell cannabis. let people with memory problems cultivate their own "shrooms". Take away the source of income and motivation for these people to be violent, and MAYBE it would help. At least the dealers wouldn't be "criminals" for their intentions on making profits off of Natural substances. (God did put them here folks) I know that doesn't really quite answer your question... but to me taking away their motivation for having arms in the first place would be well enough. If they feel the NEED to be criminals just to own guns... then maybe that'll just get em' too stoned to want to get off the couch lol. But if I were a criminal, I would think twice about breaking into a mans house who had a shotgun at the ready pointing towards all the noise (just me)

- Peace in Jesus Christ friend :)
 
A

AllanSnackbar

Guest
#66
The problem with statistics is that they can be calculated to support any given position. The gun murder stats never sort out the legal police shootings of criminals by our police officers.

The is of course a practical impossibility of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals who are most likely to use them for evil purposes. Take the guns from the law abiding citizens and only the criminals will have guns.

The UK does not have citizens but subjects of the crown.

You cannot legislate righteousness. Do not penalize the good for the sake of the wicked.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Yes statistics can be read any way you want.

1 in 5 deaths on the road are caused by Drunk Drivers.

Thefore 4 out of 5 are commited by Sober drivers.

Therefore its safer to drink and drive.
 
T

TapiBox

Guest
#67
So horrible! Church is supposed to be a place of refuge where people feel safe. Prayers going up for the victims and their family. This is a crime against humanity and Christianity.
 
J

JustAnotherUser

Guest
#68
It's only adding onto the racial wars going on and the events that are highlighted in the media. Think about it. Bruce Jenner coming out as Caitlyn and it's acceptable despite how many years this guy was 'hiding his true identity', yet Rachel Dolezal identifying as a black woman when it's pretty clear that she's white is shunned on with many things happening in between. Now the shooting happening and evidently seen as a hate crime/race war along with previous cases of white police officers vs black citizens, even if some of these black citizens were committing crimes prior to the events.

Anyone who does justify shootings as people who are 'disturbed' and that they should be given any sympathy really needs to evaluate as to what they are siding with. Let me ask those people this - the Boston Marathon event that has led two years later the sentence of death penalty for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev seems justifiable with the two or three deaths as the given result, then what makes this case any different of nine being dead from a shooting happening during a church sermon? A church sermon that is supposed to give people some refuge from the real world mess that we're already in and causing division and fall within America as we speak, only to have these people suffer and changed permanently from it. Black vs white, liberal vs conservative, what we allow our politicians to pass, our risk with gun law etc. The media and social networks are a haven for these problems to be more so present and we're not doing a damn thing other than being at war with our own neighbors and letting the irrational win. It does involve us everyday people even if it seems insignificant and the sooner we realize this then the better off we 'could' be from being so passive.

If we truly do not want this to be a race bait then give to where it is due and say what is truly justifiable and what is not. Nine people are dead because of this shooter. Once we realize and gain such power through numbers then we wouldn't be manipulated and conclude our outcomes such as this. Providing on people's words as it has been made with Dylann Roof gives all the more reason one should support the death penalty for him as well. If one truly does not want to frame 'big bad whitey' in every case scenario then we need to have the justice mindset despite the racial baiting going on that is truly setting us back since we're being manipulated and sold out no matter what spectrum we side with. How can one not see that at this point? We're on a decline because we allow things in when it's unacceptable and not accept what should be allowed for as long as we have our First Amendment for a start.
 

achildofGod

at rest with his Savior
Apr 16, 2015
2,029
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#69
Hey Just, we do have the death penalty here in SC. If he is tried by the state, he will get the
death penalty. I don't know about the feds though, they are saying here, that the feds are
going to be the one to charge him.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#70
To be fair most American churches seem more concerned with politics and social justice (which can also be social conservative causes) than anything else. I don't see any difference between a church like this and the Southern Baptist church down my street that's always trying to drum up Republican voters. Two sides of the same coin.
Painfully true. Church is to be about souls not politics. Citizens having their heart right with God make the best citizens.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#71
Well I'm going to wait and see but I suspect he never really had a chance to be a productive citizen.

He will reap that which he has sown. I will pity him and mourn what he could have been had he made Christ his Savior. Satan delights in destruction and this young man is an example of just how horrific the consequences of sin are in truth.

I only hope those he murdered were genuine Christians and not the Christians produced by the gospel of social justice. The history of that church and the related information about the church denomination causes me great concern.

For now let them mourn the dead in peace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I am just now listening to the relatives speaking in the court room,giving their impact statements. There is no doubt that they are true Christians. Im afraid more than I could be. I dont know that I could forgive that soon.I guess you dont know,hopefully none of us will have to find out. It sounds like a town full of wonderful people,for the most part.Very sad.
 

achildofGod

at rest with his Savior
Apr 16, 2015
2,029
75
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#72
I am just now listening to the relatives speaking in the court room,giving their impact statements. There is no doubt that they are true Christians. Im afraid more than I could be. I dont know that I could forgive that soon.I guess you dont know,hopefully none of us will have to find out. It sounds like a town full of wonderful people,for the most part.Very sad.
Hey kaylagrl , most of our state is Christian. That is why we don't have a lot of race problems.
In 1989, Hugo came through, and that was the turning point for the people of SC.
We just need for people all over the world to be praying for us. We will overcome this,
like we have all before, because our love and faith in God.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#73
The problem with guns is 2 seconds from drawing to firing.

Every young or old nut can do this anytime a gun falls into their hands. The truth is you are happy, I mean that literally, happy to let this happen. You believe it is Gods will, a good thing to provide this freedom.

And the answer is arm the person or persons being attacked, so you can blast away the nut.

Why not give out guns free at every street corner and whisper, if you hate your neighbour, blow them away with this so they can never have a comeback. Because you cannot act, because you fear so much, your rights mean these guys with evil intent, a psychological nutcase attitude will continue to kill innocents at random.

So the statistics are

33,000 gun murders
21,000 gun suicides
33,000 car related deaths

Now in the UK

41 gun related murders 5x up 200 death
2,000 deaths from car 10,000 deaths

Now I am sure the UK does not have any more sanity that the US, but as far as car deaths it is a 1/3 and gun murders 170 times greater in the US to the UK.

Also guns are as likely to kill you as a car accident, and the massive easy access to a gun, makes suicide very easy.
So to say this is not a problem is putting blinkers on, and hiding in a bunker.
Your problem is that you don't understand that our form of democracy (that protects yours) is based upon the honest people being armed against oppresive government and having the ability to bear arms ..even against the government if need be. That's why the right to bear arms is the 2nd amendment to the constitution.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#74
I would honestly have to say the only thing that would make sense to me is to legalize medicines the DEA has labeled "Illicit drugs". Violence and "illicit drugs" go hand in hand. Allow people to cultivate or businesses to grow and sell cannabis. let people with memory problems cultivate their own "shrooms". Take away the source of income and motivation for these people to be violent, and MAYBE it would help. At least the dealers wouldn't be "criminals" for their intentions on making profits off of Natural substances. (God did put them here folks) I know that doesn't really quite answer your question... but to me taking away their motivation for having arms in the first place would be well enough. If they feel the NEED to be criminals just to own guns... then maybe that'll just get em' too stoned to want to get off the couch lol. But if I were a criminal, I would think twice about breaking into a mans house who had a shotgun at the ready pointing towards all the noise (just me)

- Peace in Jesus Christ friend :)
Wow! outlaw guns because people get harmed, but make legal drugs? I don't understand liberal thought :confused:
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,426
6,654
113
#75
A gun can not think for itself. A gun can not act on it's own. A gun is just an object. Can it be dangerous? Sure, in the hands of the wrong person. Can it save lives? Yes, in the hands of the right person. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

A car is just a car............and even with all the advances of technology, it still requires an outside force to begin operating. Cars don't kill people, people kill people.

A butcher knife is just a butcher knife........................

A hatchet is just a hatchet.......................

A hammer is just a hammer..................

An axe is just an axe.............

well, some will understand, others won't
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#76
Hey kaylagrl , most of our state is Christian. That is why we don't have a lot of race problems.
In 1989, Hugo came through, and that was the turning point for the people of SC.
We just need for people all over the world to be praying for us. We will overcome this,
like we have all before, because our love and faith in God.

I only have been as far as Aiken SC. I sang at a couple churches there and the people were wonderful. Very sweet and friendly.If I had to move further south Id consider SC first. You should be very proud of your state and I know you are!
 

achildofGod

at rest with his Savior
Apr 16, 2015
2,029
75
0
#77
I only have been as far as Aiken SC. I sang at a couple churches there and the people were wonderful. Very sweet and friendly.If I had to move further south Id consider SC first. You should be very proud of your state and I know you are!
I believe in 1989, that was Gods wake up call for the entire state. We were like all the other states
putting everything above God. God has a way to bring us to our knees, he would prefer that we just
do it. When, we don't , he will do it his way. Yes, I'm proud of our state, if we could keep the feds out
of it. They are all over it, they have been here since 4 am Thursday morning. We are going to show
the entire world, what it means to love God so much ,that during this lose, he is still King.
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#78
You're right, I do NOT know anything about guns, and I pray to God I never have to. But you're saying I should probably be disqualified from having any say in how they should be regulated... But the government says I'm fully within my rights to go out and get one. That's a conundrum.
Not really. We don't have a true democracy in the U.S. We elect representatives to take our views to Washington. If they don't represent us well, we campaign to change them. But they are the ultimate decision makers.

And no, without knowledge of guns, the purpose the Constitution stands for their personal ownership, you don't know enough to have a say. You assume the purpose established in the document is outmoded. You would be wrong.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
113
#79
Not really. We don't have a true democracy in the U.S. We elect representatives to take our views to Washington. If they don't represent us well, we campaign to change them. But they are the ultimate decision makers.

And no, without knowledge of guns, the purpose the Constitution stands for their personal ownership, you don't know enough to have a say. You assume the purpose established in the document is outmoded. You would be wrong.
The the right to self-protection from tyranny of all stripes will be in effect until the Day of Redemption.
 
Jan 6, 2014
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#80
In case you don't know, just because people were killed in the church does not mean that those that were killed are true Christians. churches today are filled with pagans that call themselves Christians.