Rapture= false teaching

[charisenexcelcis]

regardless of it either being tribulation or temptation, the use of "ek" and "tereo" begin used in the same manner as John 17:15 uses it does not refer this verse to describing a pre-tribulation rapture... again, it talks about endurance, not escapism.

we're now simply going into the semantics of this term when we don't need to, because the Word of God already states that we are to persevere and endure through either temptation or tribulation... we cannot take one verse and say it means something else entirely when the rest of the Word of God says differently... that's personal assumption and private interpretation, something 2 Peter 1:20-21 warns us to not do

No, these are not that close in structure to force the one on the other. We aren't talking semantics and we aren't even talking escatology. We are talking about Koine and translation. I think you should ask yourself this: if my translation of Rev 3:10 disagrees with virtually every Bible translation that is out there, perhaps there is a good reason. Don't bother with the II Peter reference. It's a bit presumptive and a little obnoxious.
Good luck with the Greek--try out Machen....

 

[joint-heir]

ZILLA and MIKTRE
YOU 2 DEFINITELY NEED TO VISIT MY CHURCH
AND SEE HOW GOD REALLY WORKS
AND HOW SCRIPTURE IS TRULLY UNFOLDED
BY THE DIRECTION OF THE HOLY GHOST
NOT BY MAN
BUT BY GOD HIMSELF

THE DAY
YOU 2
FINALLY
ALLOW GOD TO ENTER YOU AND DIRECT YOU
THAT VERY SAME DAY
YOU EACH WILL INTRODUCE AND CONVERT 10 PEOPLE TO GOD
FOR
UNTIL
YOU REMOVE YOUR IDEOLOGY AND SPRIRT OF RELIGION
THE ONLY ONE CONVINCED
IN YOUR DESPERATE EFFORTS FOUND IN THIS FORUM ALONE
IS
JUST
YOU 2
AND TELL ME
AFTER ALL THIS EFFORT IN THIS BIGGEST FORUM EVER IN CC
YOU ONLY HAVE YOURSELVES AND POSSIBLY ANOTHER THAT BELIEVE YOU
WANT TO KNOW WHY???
CHILDREN OF GOD
CAN SPOT
FALSE IDEAS A MILE AWAY
AND I SEEN YOU
WELL BEFORE I EVER READ THIS FORUM FOR THE FIRST TIME
AND
THAT IS VERY SAD..........

YOU TRULLY ARE LOST IN RELIGION AND YOUR OWN IDEAS
TRY GOD
HIS REALM IS BEYOND
THE 4 CORNERS OF YOUR MIND

 

[charisenexcelcis]

so you're saying James Strong was not a skilled scholar?

that's like saying Cyrus Scofield was a very skilled scholar...
and when you study this man and his life, you find out that Mr. Scofield was, by no means, a Biblical scholar.

I'm saying that Strong's lexicon is built for brevity, for use by those who have little or no knowledge of Greek.

 

[miktre]

Welcome to the site Zilla,
It's a real blessing that you are here.
I agree there is not a better work to use than the Strong's.
James Strong's life work is paralleled by no other.
I have an original Strong's not the the new.

 

[Zilla64007]

yeah, the reason is simple, charisenexcelcis: it's a personal interpretation, and it's not harmonious with scripture.

the whole POINT of the Word of God: that is that it is in harmony with itself... if someone comes out with some interpretation that is not in harmony with the rest of the Word of God, then YES, it is wrong, and should be dropped and looked at again.

and yes, I will use 2 Peter 1:20-21 regardless whether you see that verse as either presumptive or obnoxious, because that verse is just as important as any other Bible verse in the Word of God. You may not like the verse, but just because you don't like the verse doesn't make it untrue or false...

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

this includes the verses that we don't like.

 

[Zilla64007]

ZILLA and MIKTRE
YOU 2 DEFINITELY NEED TO VISIT MY CHURCH
AND SEE HOW GOD REALLY WORKS
AND HOW SCRIPTURE IS TRULLY UNFOLDED
BY THE DIRECTION OF THE HOLY GHOST
NOT BY MAN
BUT BY GOD HIMSELF

THE DAY
YOU 2
FINALLY
ALLOW GOD TO ENTER YOU AND DIRECT YOU
THAT VERY SAME DAY
YOU EACH WILL INTRODUCE AND CONVERT 10 PEOPLE TO GOD
FOR
UNTIL
YOU REMOVE YOUR IDEOLOGY AND SPRIRT OF RELIGION
THE ONLY ONE CONVINCED
IN YOUR DESPERATE EFFORTS FOUND IN THIS FORUM ALONE
IS
JUST
YOU 2
AND TELL ME
AFTER ALL THIS EFFORT IN THIS BIGGEST FORUM EVER IN CC
YOU ONLY HAVE YOURSELVES AND POSSIBLY ANOTHER THAT BELIEVE YOU
WANT TO KNOW WHY???
CHILDREN OF GOD
CAN SPOT
FALSE IDEAS A MILE AWAY
AND I SEEN YOU
WELL BEFORE I EVER READ THIS FORUM FOR THE FIRST TIME
AND
THAT IS VERY SAD..........

YOU TRULLY ARE LOST IN RELIGION AND YOUR OWN IDEAS
TRY GOD
HIS REALM IS BEYOND
THE 4 CORNERS OF YOUR MIND

are you trying to tell me that I'm not saved, joint-heir?

and I'm fine with the church that I'm at, joint-heir... it was God who led me to this church, and it was God who encouraged me to read His Word more, and it was God who led me to His truth, and it was God who opened my eyes from the teachings of man, and helped me see the beauty and love of what His Word personally conveys to me

 

[joint-heir]

are you trying to tell me that I'm not saved, joint-heir?

I have no doubt that you are saved
I have doubt
that whatever church you are involved with you spend more time thinking
you understand GODs WORD better than your own pastor
and the idea of why I feel impressed by this
is due to
religion and not relationship

 

[charisenexcelcis]

yeah, the reason is simple, charisenexcelcis: it's a personal interpretation, and it's not harmonious with scripture.

the whole POINT of the Word of God: that is that it is in harmony with itself... if someone comes out with some interpretation that is not in harmony with the rest of the Word of God, then YES, it is wrong, and should be dropped and looked at again.

and yes, I will use 2 Peter 1:20-21 regardless whether you see that verse as either presumptive or obnoxious, because that verse is just as important as any other Bible verse in the Word of God. You may not like the verse, but just because you don't like the verse doesn't make it untrue or false...

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

this includes the verses that we don't like.

Zilla--I have been nothing if not polite. I have not argued your escatology, merely pointed out one point in which your translation of one word is not supported by the Greek text or by the English translations. I don't see II Peter as obnoxious or presumptive. I see you as becoming presumptive and obnoxious. So, let me leave you with a scripture: Ephesians 1:15-23.

 

[Zilla64007]

I have no doubt that you are saved
I have doubt
that whatever church you are involved with you spend more time thinking
you understand GODs WORD better than your own pastor
and the idea of why I feel impressed by this
is due to
religion and not relationship

my faith in Christ has nothing to do with my pastor, or my church, or my pastor's teachings.

I do not rely on the teachings of my pastor for either guidance, or encouragement, or truth.
i rely only on His Word... not CH Spurgeon, or John Hagee, or John Gill, or TimLaHaye, or Martin Luther, or Hal Lindsay, or any other scholar out there.

my faith comes from my relationship with Christ, not the doctrine that is taught within the Word of God... the doctrine is simply the concrete on top of the foundation... Christ is the foundation of my relationship, and He always will be. It was born out of love, encouragement, exhortation, and grace.

the Church i go to is dispensational, and pre-tribulational, however God did not send me there to learn about doctrine, or religion... He sent me there to learn about the importance of His Love and the importance of His family, and the importance of His relationship with me... and that is why i still go to this church.

 

[Zilla64007]

Zilla--I have been nothing if not polite. I have not argued your escatology, merely pointed out one point in which your translation of one word is not supported by the Greek text or by the English translations. I don't see II Peter as obnoxious or presumptive. I see you as becoming presumptive and obnoxious. So, let me leave you with a scripture: Ephesians 1:15-23.

i dont say these things out of arrogance, or ignorance... i say it only out of love.
it's hard to convey emotion through a forum, especially in something such as this, because it is a topic very open to interpretation.

i read the scripture... awesome stuff.
however, it doesn't change what or how i study... i will still study it nonstop. Yes, i screw up too, but that goes for everyone. I'm just as gullible as any other human being on this planet, and that includes you... not trying to be mean to you, but i won't let you single me out like that... it reminds me of the parable where one points out the speck of dust in their eye when they themselves have a plank...

this is something I will always continue to study, but i will not give any man-made interpretations ground or footing to stand on in my faith. I will simply do what 2 Timothy 2:15 says:

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I'm not ashamed of what I've learned, whether that be the Gospel of Christ, Coventalism, post-tribulation, salvation, or justification... more than that, it helps me grow, and what I have learned helps me grow in perseverance, endurance, and faith in Christ, because it does strengthen my faith, and it continues to encourage me to trust in Christ more, and lean on Him more than ever... I'm not worried of neither temptation or tribulation, because either way, Jesus Christ is Lord of my life, and I will not be afraid, because overall: He has everything in control.

 

[joint-heir]

my faith in Christ has nothing to do with my pastor, or my church, or my pastor's teachings.

I do not rely on the teachings of my pastor for either guidance, or encouragement, or truth.
i rely only on His Word... not CH Spurgeon, or John Hagee, or John Gill, or TimLaHaye, or Martin Luther, or Hal Lindsay, or any other scholar out there.

my faith comes from my relationship with Christ, not the doctrine that is taught within the Word of God... the doctrine is simply the concrete on top of the foundation... Christ is the foundation of my relationship, and He always will be. It was born out of love, encouragement, exhortation, and grace.

the Church i go to is dispensational, and pre-tribulational, however God did not send me there to learn about doctrine, or religion... He sent me there to learn about the importance of His Love and the importance of His family, and the importance of His relationship with me... and that is why i still go to this church.

YOUR VERY ANSWERS DEMONSTRATE EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING
you feel above everyone in your church
and it is more obvious so towards your pastor
and you have.......NO.......sense of servitude towards any of them
in fact.......from your own quote
"He sent me there to learn about the importance of His Love and the importance of His family, and the importance of His relationship with me"
DEMONSTRATES
this to be no other than
GOD is personally punishing me

TRY
going there with the attitude
THAT
they HAVE what you need

DO YOU EVEN REALIZE THAT GOD SERVES YOU?

your every need is met
HE supports you
HE comforts you
HE loves you unconditionally
HE died for you
HE went to the ENDS of the world just for you
HE serves you

I find it ironic that you are in a church that you made sure to demonstrate has a belief that you yourself does not personally accept and follow.
This tells me worlds of information to who you trully are not only in yourself but in GOD.

I believe by the HOLY GHOST I am typing this for your benefit and that would be you are in that church to serve them since IT IS OBVIOUS you already believe your revelations are greater than theirs.......

IF GOD SERVES YOU
WHO ARE YOU
TO NOT SERVE THOSE OTHER.......THAT GOD ALSO SERVES???

 

[Zilla64007]

dude... i don't think I'm better than everyone else... I'm not the only one at this church that holds to post-tribulation...
and I certainly DON'T feel like I'm above everyone else, as you tend to think... you don't know me, or know anything about me or my walk with Christ.

joint-heir, at the very beginning, i didn't even know my church taught this... and the fact is, I don't care... that's not why I go.
Your post makes absolutely no sense whatsoever... i have never seen myself as better than others, and frankly, i never have see myself better than others... I'm no better than them.

and this church does have what i need... the sense of love no matter what doctrine one person believes in, the sense of family no matter what doctrine one believes.
again, your post is extremely confusing...
what is sounds like you're trying to do is make it look like i think of myself as some "high and mighty person and I'm supposedly the only person who got it right, and everyone else is wrong"... simply goes to show you don't know me... and there's nothing i can say that can prove otherwise, because whatever i say about myself, it's boasting myself up, and i don't want that, and that's not what I do. I'd rather lift up His Name, since it was Him and only Him who got me through the 2 most depressing and suicidal years of my life... He deserves all credit, and He will continue to receive credit, because I am absolutely nothing without Him, and if someone says "thank you" to me, i give it to Him... because I don't deserve it. It's nothing I did. Again, He deserves all credit.

 

[joint-heir]

dude... i don't think I'm better than everyone else... I'm not the only one at this church that holds to post-tribulation...
and I certainly DON'T feel like I'm above everyone else, as you tend to think... you don't know me, or know anything about me or my walk with Christ.

joint-heir, at the very beginning, i didn't even know my church taught this... and the fact is, I don't care... that's not why I go.
Your post makes absolutely no sense whatsoever... i have never seen myself as better than others, and frankly, i never have see myself better than others... I'm no better than them.

and this church does have what i need... the sense of love no matter what doctrine one person believes in, the sense of family no matter what doctrine one believes.
again, your post is extremely confusing...
what is sounds like you're trying to do is make it look like i think of myself as some "high and mighty person and I'm supposedly the only person who got it right, and everyone else is wrong"... simply goes to show you don't know me... and there's nothing i can say that can prove otherwise, because whatever i say about myself, it's boasting myself up, and i don't want that, and that's not what I do. I'd rather lift up His Name, since it was Him and only Him who got me through the 2 most depressing and suicidal years of my life... He deserves all credit, and He will continue to receive credit, because I am absolutely nothing without Him, and if someone says "thank you" to me, i give it to Him... because I don't deserve it. It's nothing I did. Again, He deserves all credit.

I am the Associate Pastor at my church
BUT
without those who come to worship and to praise GOD
I have no church to Pastor
I have no flock to serve
I have no needs to help within the congregation
I have nothing
For to be like GOD
is not that I preach and teach
it is
that GOD has given me those HE serves so that I may serve as well
including
my community
I cannot hold a candle to any of them
FOR
they are all greater than I am

 

[greatkraw]

So can I clarify??

Is Miktre into a Mid wrath rapture while Snail is post trib; ie no rapture?

 

[Dread_Zeppelin]

I am the Associate Pastor at my church
BUT
without those who come to worship and to praise GOD
I have no church to Pastor
I have no flock to serve
I have no needs to help within the congregation
I have nothing
For to be like GOD
is not that I preach and teach
it is
that GOD has given me those HE serves so that I may serve as well
including
my community
I cannot hold a candle to any of them
FOR
they are all greater than I am

Wow tell me what church you are from so I can avoid it! I found your previous posts to zilla to be very insulting and agressive. No matter what zillas opinion is there is no need to tear him down for beliefs that obviously don't play a part in his salvation (despite what you think). Even you were right, and zilla was wrong, how dare you tell him he has spirits? Who are you to size up a person based on a couple of posts on the internet? Dont tell me you are God lead, because children of God correct with a loving hand and not with a closed fist.

 

[miktre]

I am the Associate Pastor at my church
BUT
without those who come to worship and to praise GOD
I have no church to Pastor
I have no flock to serve
I have no needs to help within the congregation
I have nothing
For to be like GOD
is not that I preach and teach
it is
that GOD has given me those HE serves so that I may serve as well
including
my community
I cannot hold a candle to any of them
FOR
they are all greater than I am

That's why you ought to do your best to make sure what you are teaching them is the absolute truth. Sounds like its been compromised.

 

[miktre]

ZILLA and MIKTRE
YOU 2 DEFINITELY NEED TO VISIT MY CHURCH
AND SEE HOW GOD REALLY WORKS
AND HOW SCRIPTURE IS TRULLY UNFOLDED
BY THE DIRECTION OF THE HOLY GHOST
NOT BY MAN
BUT BY GOD HIMSELF


THE DAY
YOU 2
FINALLY
ALLOW GOD TO ENTER YOU AND DIRECT YOU
THAT VERY SAME DAY
YOU EACH WILL INTRODUCE AND CONVERT 10 PEOPLE TO GOD
FOR
UNTIL
YOU REMOVE YOUR IDEOLOGY AND SPRIRT OF RELIGION
Hey, just yesterday someone on here opened their eyes to this truth. You know how hard that is on a forum? Praise God. I would rather have 1 person open their eyes to truth than 2,000 into deception.

THE ONLY ONE CONVINCED
IN YOUR DESPERATE EFFORTS FOUND IN THIS FORUM ALONE
IS
JUST
YOU 2
AND TELL ME
AFTER ALL THIS EFFORT IN THIS BIGGEST FORUM EVER IN CC
YOU ONLY HAVE YOURSELVES AND POSSIBLY ANOTHER THAT BELIEVE YOU
WANT TO KNOW WHY???
Actually, theres more believers than you think. There is a reason that this is the longest thread on CC and it's not me, as you can see there are stretches of dozens of pages where I didn't post.
People want truth and they are tired of being fed lies. They know that theres more than what they've been taught in the past. As the those last days approach you will see this movement get bigger as God opens eyes to truth and prepares His children that will make the stand against satan.


YOU TRULLY ARE LOST IN RELIGION AND YOUR OWN IDEAS
TRY GOD
HIS REALM IS BEYOND
THE 4 CORNERS OF YOUR MIND
Actually, we stick rather close to scripture and stay within the simplicity in which Christ taught.
Thats exactly why time and again the scripture you post doesn't hold up when you want it to mean rapture.

 

[joint-heir]

That's why you ought to do your best to make sure what you are teaching them is the absolute truth. Sounds like its been compromised.

There is NO compromising in GOD my friend.
and the only reason you see me as your enemy is because
your getting your toes stepped on
Let me give you a clue what GOD is trully about
when a name or image of someone whether I know them or not comes into focus in my mind
I immediately say to GOD
I have no idea what they going thru, but YOU do GOD
but I stand firm and intercede on their behalf no matter what their situation is
May YOU LORD receive all the glory
This is also like my subject matter what I preach
I never know what it is GOD wants me to preach about until
about
FRIDAY evening
YES
I pray daily all thru the day even now as I type this
and I am constantly reading the BIBLE
but
When I step onto that podium and I began preaching
I go by faith
meaning
I have a subject matter by which GOD gave me
but
What is delivered is by the power of GOD the HOLY GHOST
and the message being preached
IS NEVER
rehearsed or practiced for by walking in faith
is to solely rely upon GOD only
SO
when I oppose your theories on your views of RAPTURE
my only position and concern
is that GODs WORD is properly interpreted
not saturated by foolish self centered opinions

 

[joint-heir]

Wow tell me what church you are from so I can avoid it! I found your previous posts to zilla to be very insulting and agressive. No matter what zillas opinion is there is no need to tear him down for beliefs that obviously don't play a part in his salvation (despite what you think). Even you were right, and zilla was wrong, how dare you tell him he has spirits? Who are you to size up a person based on a couple of posts on the internet? Dont tell me you are God lead, because children of God correct with a loving hand and not with a closed fist.

If I was being harsh you would have known this
TOOOOOOO many people give opinions based on how they feel
I have nothing invested here whether you like me or accept me
I COULD CARE LESS
BUT
As GOD used a DONKEY to convey HIS message
GOD also uses me
What I said to ZILLA
had nothing to do with how I feel about him for if I was to give my personal opinion I am sure I would probably be excused from ever participating in this forum ever again because when we speak IN OUR FLESH OR OURSELVES nothing positive and good comes from it.
IRONICALLY
We had someone like ZILLA recently in our church who had his same characteristics
FINALLY
this person came to me
we sat down and discussed this until we figured out what the real issue was
This person was the most highly intelligent individual I had ever met like ZILLa seems to be
BUT
in that it was difficult for this person to submit to things
that they felt they could discern and figure the problem out
rather than to completely submit to GOD and just say
GOD sometimes I am too smart for my own good
TODAY
this person is our youth leader
and one day will be the pastor

DREAD ZEP
you are very young
and must realize not everything you read in chat
is for YOU
to give opinion too

 

[Zilla64007]

everything that I've learned has never been from simple feeling, joint-heir... it comes from meditation in the Word, prayer, and testing itself with scripture to see if it is harmonious with the rest of the Word of God.

that is rightly dividing the word of truth