The heresies of the few

[atwhatcost]

The issue of "what is truth" and "what is heresy" actually do go hand in hand.
If we are going to make judgements over what is and isn't heresy, we need a standard.

The standard has been set often enough. We're not here to reinvent the wheel. If you don't know the standards yet, there's this cool 20th century invention called Google. It works.

This is circular, and tiresome.

 

[Sirk]

At least we're not arguing about hairy tics anymore. I've personally never seen one.

 

[FancyNancy]

At least we're not arguing about hairy tics anymore. I've personally never seen one.

Here's one, if you can handle it!

 

[atwhatcost]

You gave an opinion on truth based on your interpretations of Scripture.

And you expect a thorough education on stuff that has been asked, answered, and put in print form often enough that if you expect any of us to give it for free, you wouldn't appreciate the cost enough to learn the answer for yourself. If you're expecting to put in no effort to get your answer, why would anyone give you the effort you want for free? Work it off or don't ask. Your choice. Not our responsibility. Feel free to start your own thread, but you've sidetracked as long as would be tolerated on a thread about being tired of tolerating.

 

[SolidGround]

The standard has been set often enough. We're not here to reinvent the wheel. If you don't know the standards yet, there's this cool 20th century invention called Google. It works.

This is circular, and tiresome.

Interpreting Scripture is not academic. It is spiritual.
Google cannot edifying your soul, only your mind.

We DO need to reinvent the wheel, in a sense,
proving the basics to ourselves by leaning upon God alone, rather than the interpretive works of men.

If you are comfortable relying on the understanding of man, then stick to orthodoxy.
If you are only comfortable relying upon God and His Word, cast off the chains, and clear your preconceived notions about what the Word says, and read it with an open heart.

Orthodoxy closes the heart, because it tells us that it knows the answers.

 

[dcontroversal]

Nevertheless concerning that opinion, there are people who are of the elect who are living in deception. We all know at least one.

Maybe read what she said again and pay attention to the word THE as applied unto the elect...the use of the definite article points to ALL of the elect and my statement stands as Jesus is the one that said it......now I will quote you...argue with the Lord if you so chose FANCY

Truth is everything God speaks in His word. <---your quote...Jesus made the comment about the elect and IF IT WERE POSSIBLE with a particular application...so who should I believe...YOU or JESUS? Just asking and not being mouthy!

Originally Posted by ladylynn . I believe this is of the many issues the Bible speaks about even the very elect will be deceived in the last days.

 

[atwhatcost]

Well regretfully, it seems to me that Christianity is "all divided".
And that 'false prophets', whackjobs and fake religion abound.

The problem being that anyone who disagrees with "my" interpretation and conclusions has to be one of the above.
Regardless of whether it's the usual cultish targets like the JWs, Mormons, SDAs etc etc or a monolith like Catholicism.

Pffft! To flip on my New York accent, Fergetboutit! There is no regret on your part. You use that as part of your excuse list for not accepting God.

Worse yet, it's not true, and yet you stick with it to give you the excuse why you don't have to trust God.

You forget something important. The vast majority of Christians used to be nonbelievers too. Because of that we get the games. We used to think we were good at them too, until we realized we weren't and it's no game.

May God show you his mercy so you will get that one day. He will show it to you one day, so may it be through his mercy and not is wrath and justice, because the reality is, you already know this.

 

[dcontroversal]

Here's a hint:

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,



One doesn't become an apostate in any unified area of belief without having first believed something in that area of belief.

Maybe study the word apostasy, where it comes from and who it is actually applied to....it is indicative of the complete apostatization (my coined phrase) of humanity which paves the way for the acceptance of the man of sin by the masses and actually has nothing at all to do with the elect and their secure position in faith and the truth!

 

[FancyNancy]

Maybe read what she said again and pay attention to the word THE as applied unto the elect...the use of the definite article points to ALL of the elect and my statement stands as Jesus is the one that said it......now I will quote you...argue with the Lord if you so chose FANCY

Truth is everything God speaks in His word. <---your quote...Jesus made the comment about the elect and IF IT WERE POSSIBLE with a particular application...so who should I believe...YOU or JESUS? Just asking and not being mouthy!

Originally Posted by ladylynn . I believe this is of the many issues the Bible speaks about even the very elect will be deceived in the last days.

I don't ever argue with the Lord, d!

Jesus Himself tells us about a coming apostasy. Unbelievers cannot be apostates. So, a balanced view of all scripture is important, isn't it?

 

[oldthennew]

i can relate very well to - 'kedge' - as at one point in my journey, I asked the very same questions.......
I saw the churches as 'purely contradicting' -
and,
most of the so called 'christians' that I was exposed to got drunk and carousing on 'sat=nite'
then,
come sunday mornin' , there they were, on the pews with a hang-dog-look..

I felt like I was hung out to dry, and this is 'no place to 'look' for the 'Living-God' -
but,
it happened to me according to the scripture,
ROMANS 10:20.
But Isaiah is very bold and says.. I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.'

ultimately, our Father must give us the 'revelation' of Jesus Christ, our Saviour'.

there is just no way to 'reason' through Spiritual things by 'man-made-logic' -
for,
in the end, the understanding that 'He Is', is a GIFT, from 'He Who Is'.

 

[atwhatcost]

Yup

________

Show off! (LOL)

 

[atwhatcost]

I can see that.
But sometimes they all get wrapped up in the same box.

Sometimes, misplaced zeal is the very thing that drives us to call "heresy".

Yup.

And then when I do that, I eat crow that night, and ask for forgiveness eventually. (Thickheaded. Not like I can muster that quickly yet. lol)

 

[atwhatcost]

The issue is "educated".
Be wary of the scribes.

Their definitions are exactly what cause the divisions.
If you ask a Lutheran about orthodoxy, you get a different set than from a Baptist, and a different set from the Pentacostal, and a different set from the Reformed theologian from the dispensationalist and from the traditionalist and from the Roots movement... etc

No. The issue is you didn't click the link.

 

[atwhatcost]

At least we're not arguing about hairy tics anymore. I've personally never seen one.

Here's a photo of your hairy tic.

 

[dcontroversal]

I don't ever argue with the Lord, d!

Jesus Himself tells us about a coming apostasy. Unbelievers cannot be apostates. So, a balanced view of all scripture is important, isn't it?

The word apostasy comes from apo-hystamie and ALL LOST people stand off from the truth!

 

[FancyNancy]

It's pretty easy to see who's ignoring who!

 

[atwhatcost]

Interpreting Scripture is not academic. It is spiritual.
Google cannot edifying your soul, only your mind.

We DO need to reinvent the wheel, in a sense,
proving the basics to ourselves by leaning upon God alone, rather than the interpretive works of men.

If you are comfortable relying on the understanding of man, then stick to orthodoxy.
If you are only comfortable relying upon God and His Word, cast off the chains, and clear your preconceived notions about what the Word says, and read it with an open heart.

Orthodoxy closes the heart, because it tells us that it knows the answers.

Yeah, circular reason strikes again. So them-there words in the Bible aren't really God's words because, who knows if those dudes were really of God or not?

And back to circular simply because you don't put in the effort to learn. Do the RESEARCH! Is that clear enough?

All you're doing is creating a hallway of doors that just lead to themselves. It's a parlor trick, not real. You sound like your 20 something not 50 something. The only possible way you can come up with that garbage is because you never took the time to study who did what when and why to find out it's not a hallway of doors leading back on itself, it's not smoke and mirrors, it's NOT THIS GAME! Do the research. I'm not your teacher nor your parent.

And if you don't, stop blaming us for your ignorance. I've already done the research. I'm in my 50s too.

(How many times do I have to say I have the patience of Jonah?)

 

[FancyNancy]

What on Earth did Christians ever do without Google to point out the truth in scripture? Holy Spirit as our Teacher has far more clout. I trust Him.

 

[KennethC]

I don't ever argue with the Lord, d!

Jesus Himself tells us about a coming apostasy. Unbelievers cannot be apostates. So, a balanced view of all scripture is important, isn't it?

Apostasy means those who have taking the gospel message of Christ and turned it into a license to sin.
They allow people to do things in the faith that the bible clearly says we are not to do, and they also add things to have to do that the bible does not say we have to do. Such as forbidding to marry, eating certain foods, having to obey written ordinances of the OT Mosaic laws that do not apply.

Apostasy is not about unbelievers who have never come to or know of the faith in Jesus, it is about those who corrupt the true gospel message into allowing lewdness.

 

[HoneyDew]

Colossians 4:6 Let your speech [be] alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

2 Timothy 2:24-26 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

We are all at different points in our walk with God. Showing someone the same Grace that God has shown to us as none is perfect or without a fault is a blessing.

Galatians 6:6 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Romans 15:1 We who are strong must be considerate of those who are sensitive about things like this. We must not just please ourselves. We should help others do what is right and build them up in the Lord.