How to promote unity while acknowledging doctrinal differences

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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#1
John 17, NASB
If our objective from this point forward is Christian unity on a board where just a small portion of the world's 40,000 denominations are represented, then we need to agree, I believe, on what Christian unity actually is, according to the Bible.

Jesus spoke of it four times in just three verses, during His High Priestly Prayer in the Upper Room the night before His crucifixion. To provide context, I've quoted the two verses leading up to them as well.

19 "For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.
20 "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word;
21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;
23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.
"

Quite simply, I don't believe Christian unity is organizational, nor is it external. What it is, is the shared life we have in Jesus Christ. We are not going to look alike or sound alike. At my church, we wear shorts and tee-shirts in the summer. The church down the street wouldn't dream of showing up dressed so casually. But that has nothing to do with unity in Christ. Anyone besides me remember the Jesus Movement of the 60s? All the "hippies" cut off their beards and put on starched white shirts and narrow ties, emulating Witness Lee, their inspirational leader. They even gestured and talked like him. Bizarre? Yes, abit, and it still having nothing to do with Christian unity.

Denominationally, we will never be unified because we have differing worship styles. Among brothers and sisters in Christ, we will see those who follow differing important but non-salvic, or non-essential doctrines. I do believe all of us should agree on the essentials: The inspiration and authority of Scripture; the Trinity; the full deity and humanity of Jesus Christ; His substitutionary death on the cross; His bodily resurrection; His bodily second coming; and, salvation by grace through faith alone, apart from works.

The important doctrines upon which we can differ, I believe, would include end-times prophecy, Calvin vs. Arminius, baptism, roles of men and women in the church and home, church governance, acceptance or rejection of psychology, creation, and (this is going to floor a lot of you) charismatic gifts. There is a lot of room for disagreement but we can still accept each other as brothers and sisters despite those disagreements.

What I would classify as "interesting but non-essential matters" -- they wouldn't even rise to the doctrinal level -- would be interpretive issues with difficult passages, the preferred Bible version, and discussions of specific biblical passages such as: "Who are the sons of God in Genesis 6?" "When does/did the Ezekiel 38 battle take place?" "Did Christ descend into hell?"

It is important for us to know what level of teaching we are discussing before throwing ourselves into battle. In fact, nothing should become "a battle." Arguing is a monumental waste of time. On a lot of these issues, people simply aren't going to budge, and why should they, unless it is an essential salvation issue? And even in that, arguing is counterproductive.

All we can do is, with the grace of God Almighty and His strength granting us gentleness and humility, present our beliefs. From this point forward, I fully intend to do just that. If others engage in lower and base behaviors in getting their point across, I will disengage with them. It just isn't worth it to create division anymore. Never was. I won't be an agent of it from now on.

God bless you all.
 
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#2
If our objective from this point forward is Christian unity on a board where just a small portion of the world's 40,000 denominations are represented, then we need to agree, I believe, on what Christian unity actually is, according to the Bible


What you're talking about is everyone understanding and acceding to orthodoxy--the basic beliefs that someone must espouse to be called a Christian.

Historically, the Creeds (Nicene and Apostles) have represented statements of basic Christian doctrine. The vast majority of Christendom agrees with these Creeds. Even Christians who are unfamiliar with the Creeds will read them and say, "Yes, that's true. I believe that."
 
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popeye

Guest
#3
There is a lot of room for disagreement but we can still accept each other as brothers and sisters despite those disagreements.

UH,this is not at all what is happening here.

Men of God are being trashed wholeheartedly over some ingrediant.

This is an across the board attack against a group of members of the body of christ.

utube smears gone haywire,and bleeding over into CC.

The casualties are expected,planned,and some even are rejoicing over their wounded bodies.

Nice Job cessationists!!!!!
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#4
There is lots of unity here. Sometimes it's just hard to hear it with all the noise. The unity I see is that there are a whole lot of us who understand that we don't have it all figured out and how badly we are in need of Jesus to hold us together. :)
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#5
UH,this is not at all what is happening here.

Men of God are being trashed wholeheartedly over some ingrediant.

This is an across the board attack against a group of members of the body of christ.

utube smears gone haywire,and bleeding over into CC.

The casualties are expected,planned,and some even are rejoicing over their wounded bodies.
And it is just exactly that for which I'm owning up to myself, Popeye, and suggesting ways to overcome the divisiveness that has been generated and that has taken root, even before I came here. Perhaps you didn't notice that I said we can disagree over the charismatic gifts and still be unified.

Nice Job cessationists!!!!!
That's the kind of reaction I would like to see disappear from here. It is the kind of reaction I would classify as "counterproductive." Is it possible we can overcome our pigeonholing of ourselves and of others and just see one another as brothers and sisters, providing we agree on the essentials?
 
Mar 12, 2015
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#6
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What you're talking about is everyone understanding and acceding to orthodoxy--the basic beliefs that someone must espouse to be called a Christian.

Historically, the Creeds (Nicene and Apostles) have represented statements of basic Christian doctrine. The vast majority of Christendom agrees with these Creeds. Even Christians who are unfamiliar with the Creeds will read them and say, "Yes, that's true. I believe that."
If it was just a case of saying
"Yes, that's true. I believe that."
to the creeds, this forum wouldn't exist very long.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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#7
It seems to me, the division is not created but is already in place. The regenerate/non regenerate.
It's probably best not to engage it as ii speaks another language.
..unless one is giving the Gospel ...but even then..
 
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Sirk

Guest
#8
It seems to me, the division is not created but is already in place. The regenerate/non regenerate.
It's probably best not to engage it as ii speaks another language.
Totally. It speaks the language of confusion and pride.
 
Mar 12, 2015
629
9
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#9
UH,this is not at all what is happening here.

Men of God are being trashed wholeheartedly over some ingrediant.

This is an across the board attack against a group of members of the body of christ.

utube smears gone haywire,and bleeding over into CC.

The casualties are expected,planned,and some even are rejoicing over their wounded bodies.

Nice Job cessationists!!!!!
Video's can go a long way in proving a point, and now you are slaming cessationist, perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black and accomplishes nothing more than starting "Your mama wears combat boots" posts.
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#10
If it was just a case of saying

[ . . . ] acceding to orthodoxy [ . . . ]
to the creeds, this forum wouldn't exist very long.
Christian orthodoxy believes that the church (and by that I mean the body of Christ, not any version of Catholicism that makes itself available as an alleged Earthly final authority) and faith are inseparable, and I fully believe that. Orthodox Christian teaching is not the purview of a denomination, but is found in the pages of God's Holy Word, the Bible.

Neither the Apostles' Creed nor the Nicene Creed are Scripture. Both have issues, the Apostles' Creed being more solid than is the Nicene. But I'm not talking about the Creeds. I'm talking about biblical truth. We don't need creeds to identify it.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
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#11
Witness Lee? In our parts it was Moses David (Berg) and the Alamos :)
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,178
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#12
I think this is the main issue: prideful people cannot let stuff go. for example: let's say I told a brother or sister in Christ that I smoked a cigar from time to time. that person responded " well, I think it is wrong of a professing Christian to do that". if I said o.k. then I will never do around you, and not mention it. that should be the end. but the prideful person would continue to bang on me about it, thus creating division. so letting little things would be huge for the sake of unity.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#13
I think this is the main issue: prideful people cannot let stuff go. for example: let's say I told a brother or sister in Christ that I smoked a cigar from time to time. that person responded " well, I think it is wrong of a professing Christian to do that". if I said o.k. then I will never do around you, and not mention it. that should be the end. but the prideful person would continue to bang on me about it, thus creating division. so letting little things would be huge for the sake of unity.
This brings up another good point how some are single issue focused, riveted on their pet topic rather than be well rounded.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#14
Unity can only be had in Christ. The Holy Spirit is the unifier not the will of man. Amos 3:3 can two walk together except they be agreed?

Sheep are pretty passive critters but goats tend to butt heads.

Testify of how wonderful it is to know Jesus and rejoice in His joy. A lot of the strife fades when we seek to be in Christ's presence.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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Sirk

Guest
#15
I think this is the main issue: prideful people cannot let stuff go. for example: let's say I told a brother or sister in Christ that I smoked a cigar from time to time. that person responded " well, I think it is wrong of a professing Christian to do that". if I said o.k. then I will never do around you, and not mention it. that should be the end. but the prideful person would continue to bang on me about it, thus creating division. so letting little things would be huge for the sake of unity.
It's easy to fall into the trap of being controlling. I think the core intention is that people want to help others but end up getting too wrapped up in another persons behavior...wanting them to change or getting frustrated with them because they don't change as fast as you would like them too. Faith is about letting go of life and its trappings and hanging onto Jesus.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#16
I think this is the main issue: prideful people cannot let stuff go. for example: let's say I told a brother or sister in Christ that I smoked a cigar from time to time. that person responded " well, I think it is wrong of a professing Christian to do that". if I said o.k. then I will never do around you, and not mention it. that should be the end. but the prideful person would continue to bang on me about it, thus creating division. so letting little things would be huge for the sake of unity.
Smoking will not send you to hell. As one old preacher once said it only make you smell like you've been there.

If I recall correctly Spurgeon smoked and did an number of the turn of the century preachers. Of course they did not have the social stigma and scientific knowledge of how harmful smoking is for our health and those around us.

We do need to be compassionate and forgiving trusting that the Lord will move in our brethren's hearts as He has in ours.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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Rosesrock

Guest
#17
Isnt this question why churches are separate in doctrine and practice??
Pride creeps in and we think we have it all together....when the bottom line is jesus....the rest is gravy
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#18
Isnt this question why churches are separate in doctrine and practice??
Pride creeps in and we think we have it all together....when the bottom line is jesus....the rest is gravy
I think there are legitimate reasons for denominational separation. Being Southern Baptist, I have certain opinions on the charismatic gifts, so I wouldn't be comfortable in a Pentecostal church that openly practices them.

By the same token, most Pentecostals wouldn't be comfortable in my church, as we have a general order of service that includes praise, prayer, and solid biblical teaching, whereas some Pentecostal denominations have a more free-form worship style -- however and wherever the Holy Spirit leads, including those same things but not necessarily in any particular order.

Yet again, the bottom line is Jesus Christ. But I believe both types of worshipers can truthfully say He is their bottom line.
 
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senzi

Guest
#19
The new testament church accepted as christians people who believed all gentile converts be required to obey the whole law and be circumcised, and they also accepted Paul!
Scripturally if you accept the son of God died for your sins, repent of your sin and ask Christ into your life as lord and saviour, you are saved. But could 40000 denominations unite around the scriptural requirement for salvation?
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#20
But could 40000 denominations unite around the scriptural requirement for salvation?
The question probably isn't whether denominations can, because churches and denominations are not members here. The question, I think, is can and will the people on this board wrap their heads around those Scriptural truths you've noted, and accept that others have done the same, making them brothers and sisters in Christ?