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I'm not a cessationist
However, there is no excuse for upholding false doctrine because one has a favorite teacher/pastor/ (cough cough) prophet
There is no across the board attack going on and that remark is typical of the kind of rhetoric that sweats up an arguement.
It is geared to create defensiveness and retaliation
Typical and easily recognized....but it is not inspired by the Holy Spirit
It is either of the flesh or well...the other choice
The only casualty is the one given in to by those who cannot stand to have anyone hold up the word and declare their pet doctrines are not found IN that word
And then we have the 'God told me" club and a close second (and actually evil IMO) the 'God told me to tell you club'
I have more experience then I actually wish to have with the abuse of the gifts and the fleecing the sheep that goes on
Men of God you say? well, if they are only men, then surely they are not above inspection?
There have been some utterly outrageous statements made around here lately...it is grievous and very misrepresentational of any actual gifts God may choose to give
God is not a God of the hoopla circus that it seems most who believe in the gifts attend and endorse these days
And no, God is not going to defend you against me...I have on many occasions prayed that God defend ME against the people who abuse what God calls good
The pride and vanity of some, who think that their word is as good as God's written word, is astounding and yet they do not recognize that because they are deceived
However, there is no excuse for upholding false doctrine because one has a favorite teacher/pastor/ (cough cough) prophet
There is no across the board attack going on and that remark is typical of the kind of rhetoric that sweats up an arguement.
It is geared to create defensiveness and retaliation
Typical and easily recognized....but it is not inspired by the Holy Spirit
It is either of the flesh or well...the other choice
The only casualty is the one given in to by those who cannot stand to have anyone hold up the word and declare their pet doctrines are not found IN that word
And then we have the 'God told me" club and a close second (and actually evil IMO) the 'God told me to tell you club'
I have more experience then I actually wish to have with the abuse of the gifts and the fleecing the sheep that goes on
Men of God you say? well, if they are only men, then surely they are not above inspection?
There have been some utterly outrageous statements made around here lately...it is grievous and very misrepresentational of any actual gifts God may choose to give
God is not a God of the hoopla circus that it seems most who believe in the gifts attend and endorse these days
And no, God is not going to defend you against me...I have on many occasions prayed that God defend ME against the people who abuse what God calls good
The pride and vanity of some, who think that their word is as good as God's written word, is astounding and yet they do not recognize that because they are deceived
This is simply untrue. The Gospels and the letters of Peter and Paul were 'canonised' in 1st century AD. (Paul's letters were already seen as Scripture). The creeds did not predate this. Nor did they help in 'determining which texts were genuinely from God.' The Apostles creed limited itself to outlining 'historical facts'. The Nicene (Athanasian) Creed added to that later views about Jesus Christ's divinity. Neither deal with the doctrine of salvation, or of the Holy Spirit in any detail. That is why they are a basis for 'unity' of a kind. But it is unity based on basics.
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While I may be one, I contend others are certainly entitled to believe otherwise. It's not a salvation issue.
But, when it comes to truth in regard to salvation, we can not stand on the sidelines as heresy runs wild. Souls are at stake. Unity for the sake of peace, at the expense of God's clearly revealed word and will, is never worth it.
Be it here or in the "real" world.
E
Does anyone here actually think it is godly to constantly smart mouth and disparage other believers and actually state that God basically informs you about others, revealing their thoughts and heart?
I honestly think there are a few on these boards, whose main mission is to seed disention and arguing
I'm being as serious as I get right at this moment. I firmly believe that whether or not you believe tongues is for today or whether or not you raise your hands when you worship, is not something to argue about...oh for sure I have participated in threads where certain topics get a little hot to handle
But I honestly do not hate people nor do I wish bad on anyone nor do I really like to argue...it is far more pleasant for brethren to worship God as He is and not how we are
However, there are those, who may not be aware of what they do, who are the catalyst for arguements starting.
Why is that? They are offended and offense is not from God
Now when someone inserts a truly insidious doctrine that makes the sacrifice of Christ a bargaining chip for heaven that one can trade along with their own good deeds, I think it MUST be denied and pointed out how evil that is.
However, when someone wants to argue about their own experience with regard to spiritual things or state they are an authority on spiritual things, I see them as rogue...apart from the body...the intent is not to create unity...and by that I mean unity IN Christ which is all we really have actually...the act of arguing their own case draws attention to THAT PERSON and away from Christ
And THAT, is definately one of the characteristics of something false
I've seen it in church, I've seen it in home Bible studies, I've seen it at conferences and it is alive and well here
The truth...and this may be considered a paradox at times or by some...actually will draw the attention of the lie so that they smack in to each other. We have the truth of God and the lie which may mimic the truth but is not at all the truth.
As perfect and Holy as Jesus is, He was held up as a blasphemer before all people and crucified for us
There is no truth that is better then what Christ says about Himself, and that is why I utterly reject all the words that in any way, shape or form do not line up with His truth...HE is truth
Private revelation can be a very dangerous thing...and often just a little twisting can deviate so far from the Word by the time it has travelled a few miles, so as to be a new doctrine and one that is a lie
I honestly think there are a few on these boards, whose main mission is to seed disention and arguing
I'm being as serious as I get right at this moment. I firmly believe that whether or not you believe tongues is for today or whether or not you raise your hands when you worship, is not something to argue about...oh for sure I have participated in threads where certain topics get a little hot to handle
But I honestly do not hate people nor do I wish bad on anyone nor do I really like to argue...it is far more pleasant for brethren to worship God as He is and not how we are
However, there are those, who may not be aware of what they do, who are the catalyst for arguements starting.
Why is that? They are offended and offense is not from God
Now when someone inserts a truly insidious doctrine that makes the sacrifice of Christ a bargaining chip for heaven that one can trade along with their own good deeds, I think it MUST be denied and pointed out how evil that is.
However, when someone wants to argue about their own experience with regard to spiritual things or state they are an authority on spiritual things, I see them as rogue...apart from the body...the intent is not to create unity...and by that I mean unity IN Christ which is all we really have actually...the act of arguing their own case draws attention to THAT PERSON and away from Christ
And THAT, is definately one of the characteristics of something false
I've seen it in church, I've seen it in home Bible studies, I've seen it at conferences and it is alive and well here
The truth...and this may be considered a paradox at times or by some...actually will draw the attention of the lie so that they smack in to each other. We have the truth of God and the lie which may mimic the truth but is not at all the truth.
As perfect and Holy as Jesus is, He was held up as a blasphemer before all people and crucified for us
There is no truth that is better then what Christ says about Himself, and that is why I utterly reject all the words that in any way, shape or form do not line up with His truth...HE is truth
Private revelation can be a very dangerous thing...and often just a little twisting can deviate so far from the Word by the time it has travelled a few miles, so as to be a new doctrine and one that is a lie
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I'd give this post a rep, but I'm out of reps for Ember. I know what I'm about to suggest is a little off topic but sort of addresses this.
Why can't there be not only an ignore button available for all to use, but also a 'barring' button available for those who start a thread? That way they can prevent the participation in that particular thread of those they deem as divisive. Of course the door swings both ways but still I think it might work.
Why can't there be not only an ignore button available for all to use, but also a 'barring' button available for those who start a thread? That way they can prevent the participation in that particular thread of those they deem as divisive. Of course the door swings both ways but still I think it might work.
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I think it's possible that some of the "scrappers" who are ready to throw down at any small offense are not necessarily trying to deliberately create discord. Some people are so emeshed with issues of shame that they have a love/hate relationships with other people. They desperately seek the approval of the larger group, and equally fear that they will never have it. Any perceived slight triggers their shame.
Brene Brown describes shame as "the intensely painful feeling or experience of believing we are flawed and therefore unworthy of love and belonging." She also says that "shame begets shame," and recommends that when we are experiencing shame that we don't text, or call, or email, or post on social media.
In other words, if our sense of shame has been triggered (whether deliberately or not), it's highly likely that our response will not be a representation of our best self. So, what can be seen as "argumentative" or "disparaging" is maybe less about aggression and more about fear. After all, shame is basically the ultimate fear that we are completely unlovable.
One of my all-time favorite verses is "He has not given us a spirit of fear, but of love and of a sound mind." I think, perhaps, the answer to the *problem of the scrappers* might not be to ostracize or shame them more. It might need to involve some kindly applications of empathy, sincere prayer, and fierce love.
Brene Brown describes shame as "the intensely painful feeling or experience of believing we are flawed and therefore unworthy of love and belonging." She also says that "shame begets shame," and recommends that when we are experiencing shame that we don't text, or call, or email, or post on social media.
In other words, if our sense of shame has been triggered (whether deliberately or not), it's highly likely that our response will not be a representation of our best self. So, what can be seen as "argumentative" or "disparaging" is maybe less about aggression and more about fear. After all, shame is basically the ultimate fear that we are completely unlovable.
One of my all-time favorite verses is "He has not given us a spirit of fear, but of love and of a sound mind." I think, perhaps, the answer to the *problem of the scrappers* might not be to ostracize or shame them more. It might need to involve some kindly applications of empathy, sincere prayer, and fierce love.
So are we looking for unity at the expense of doctrine??
I think the whole problem with this forum would be solved if two things happened.
1. People stopped personally attacking and name calling other members of the board. Think before you post! Are you countering a point, or hurting the person? Are you being intractable and thinking only you have the truth, or are you willing to look at the Scriptures in context and see what God says about it. (Not the preaching of some person or leader!)
2. The mods simply need to patrol this forum more. That might mean appointing more mods. And they need to fully check out the reports. Some people have been running amuck and there seems to be no consquences for that behaviour. (Thinking of Speak Your Mind last night)
I think the whole problem with this forum would be solved if two things happened.
1. People stopped personally attacking and name calling other members of the board. Think before you post! Are you countering a point, or hurting the person? Are you being intractable and thinking only you have the truth, or are you willing to look at the Scriptures in context and see what God says about it. (Not the preaching of some person or leader!)
2. The mods simply need to patrol this forum more. That might mean appointing more mods. And they need to fully check out the reports. Some people have been running amuck and there seems to be no consquences for that behaviour. (Thinking of Speak Your Mind last night)
V
There is also the aspect of these same people needing to affirm their worth through being right. It is a game they can only play in their own mind, but the way they see it, everyone judges them on their being right or wrong, and when confronted with a differing opinion, it blows their cover and they must respond defensively.
Amen, thanks, MPW.
Amen, thanks, MPW.
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E
hmmm...I'm think that might be a revolving door...wouldn't that be too easy? like say a works based salvation person starts a thread and the rest of us have to read the nonsense without even refuting it/
how about a UNLIKE button instead? Like I unlike this post...with minus ratings ... not really being serious but you never know..