Eternal Security

[SeaBass]

I was looking at Hebrews 6:4-6
I am on my tablet and it won't copy and paste right so I just gave the location of the verses but I noticed that in verse 6 it said if they should fall away and I was thinking wouldn't they have to be saved before it would be possible to fall away?

If it is not possible to fall away why would GOD inspire the writer of Hebrews to even bother warning us of that since its not possible to fall away.

Sounds like it saying that if you were really saved you can't fall away but I am going to warn you about it even though you don't have to worry about it.

People that are not saved can't fall away so why even put that in the bible if it's talking to unsaved people

You make a good point and I will add the KJV of Heb 6:6 is NOT the best interpretation for the "if" shows it is possible one can fall away when the original language reads "and having fallen away" they actually did fall away, not just a possibility. Check other versions to how they render Heb 6:6:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Heb&c=6&t=KJV#s=t_bibles_1139006

 

[SeaBass]

It has been my experience, in regard to those who do not believe in Eternal Security, that it simply boils down to a pride issue.

They are so proud they're stronger, more holy, dedicated, and loyal than you. They pity your "weakness" and are eager to pray that you will one day be as successful in Christianity as they are. There is no nothing humble about them. Any slip-up earns instant condemnation and a demand to even stricter obedience to the rules.

They are, for the most part, humorless and loveless. They rarely admit to what is glaringly apparent: They live in constant fear they may have committed an offense that puts them back on that hell-bound road. They spend enormous amounts of time begging God for forgiveness for sins unknown. Nagging doubt is their constant companion.

Any "pleasure" that doesn't totally involve rigid religiosity is shunned as evil. They smash even the novice Christian with a broad and heavy stick of the Law, as if to say, "See God? I'm serving you well! I'm doing good! See how hard I'm fighting for you?" They fancy themselves as "warriors" for God in the Old Testament vein.

They are often mentally exhausted. Going through their checklist of works continually. Always on the lookout for anyone, including themselves, who step out of the narrow, legalistic circle they've created.

And they love to play the persecuted martyr. Suffering so much for the cause.

Their official prayer could be: "God, I thank-you that I am not like other people - robbers, evildoers, adulterers - or even like this tax-collector." (Luke 18:11)


For they are truly, modern day Pharisees. And they are to be pitied.

This is nothing more than a personal rant full of name calling, hateful attacks, biblical ignorance and falsehoods and not based upon anything biblical at all while proving nothing at all. Is this the best defense for the false teaching of eternal security that can be provided?

 

[SeaBass]

The Word of God says:

Make a joyful noise to the Lord. It also says, whatever you do, do to the glory of God.

The word of the Lord says :

An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.

 

[SeaBass]

This is where you make a grave error in your understanding about sinful man. Adam's sin is inherit in man from conception and Jesus had to come and crucify it through death to give sinful man a scapegoat for sin. I love the fact that we have a scapegoat for sin and when we sin we reckon that sin on the body of Christ crucified and not imputed to me. Was not God in Christ reconciling the world unto himself by not imputing their trespasses and sins unto them? We are not saved until we believe that I our heart.

Men do not inherit sin no more than men inherit righteousness. Original sin is a teaching of man that is foreign to the bible.

 

[Gr8grace]

Something I just learned this year. There were two goats. One was the scapegoat and the other was the sacrificial goat. Once a year, (on what is now called Yom Kipper), they laid their hands on the one to vow they're giving up those sins. The other one was slaughtered for their sins. Jesus was both.

I thought that was amazing, so just wanted to share it. (Not saying you didn't know, but took me 43 years to figure that out. lol)

Maybe Marc can weigh in on this?

But If I remember correctly, the scapegoat had a red ribbon or cloth tied around its neck. And if all went well on "the Day" the red ribbon would turn white on the scapegoat.

Not sure if this is just myth? But I did hear it taught a while back.

 

[Utah]

The word of the Lord says :

An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.

You taking part in burnt offerings?

 

[Utah]

So, I'm wondering, if God created both man and woman...........and God considers it a sin for woman to cut her hair, why is it that some women suffer from "balding/loss of hair' just like some men?

Oh, wait, I know......it was PREDESTINED from the beginning they would suffer such, because they were not included in the group who were predestined to eternal salvation.

Either that, or they/their fathers or mothers must have committed some horrible sin, and they are being punished for it.


Um, hmm, wait, maybe I shouldn't fuss about all of this. I'm thinking there is a lucrative business opportunity here. I could produce and sell WIGS of LONG HAIR to women for when they enter the Sanctuary!

I could call it: HOLY HAIR!

And, just to be sure to maximize profits, I could sell SHORT HAIR WIGS to men who look like rejects from the 1960's.

Hmm............may have to ponder this a wee bit

For a second I thought you wrote, a weave bit.

 

[MarcR]

Maybe Marc can weigh in on this?

But If I remember correctly, the scapegoat had a red ribbon or cloth tied around its neck. And if all went well on "the Day" the red ribbon would turn white on the scapegoat.

Not sure if this is just myth? But I did hear it taught a while back.

All I can say is that there is NO SCRIPTURAL BASIS for that teaching. The teaching may be Talmudic; but I do not find it in a word search of the Babylonian Talmud. I do not own a copy of the Jerusalem Talmud .

 

[gb9]

The word of the Lord says :

An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.

context seabass context. can't just pluck out verses to make a point. especially when it pro-law nonsense that you spout all the time.

 

[atwhatcost]

You have a right to your opinion

I'm confused.

This is what I'm kind of seeing here.

"The sun is the center of our solar system. Earth is the third planet from the sun. The moon orbits earth."

"You have a right to your opinion."

What does "you have a right to your opinion" mean in this context?

 

[SeaBass]

context seabass context. can't just pluck out verses to make a point. especially when it pro-law nonsense that you spout all the time.

I did nothing no different than you, Exodus is as much of God''s word as Psalms.

 

[MarcR]

Something I just learned this year. There were two goats. One was the scapegoat and the other was the sacrificial goat. Once a year, (on what is now called Yom Kipper), they laid their hands on the one to vow they're giving up those sins. The other one was slaughtered for their sins. Jesus was both.

I thought that was amazing, so just wanted to share it. (Not saying you didn't know, but took me 43 years to figure that out. lol)

Not to be picky; but FYI, a Kipper is a pickled herring. the name of the fast is Yom Kippur.

 

[SeaBass]

You taking part in burnt offerings?

No........

 

[atwhatcost]

That is basically what Jason said to flob in his response back to flob!

flob should of known the verse that he actually meant to post.

Only spouses are supposed to know what the other spouse means even when the other spouse wasn't clear. (Or is that just hubby and me? lol)

 

[atwhatcost]

Maybe Marc can weigh in on this?

But If I remember correctly, the scapegoat had a red ribbon or cloth tied around its neck. And if all went well on "the Day" the red ribbon would turn white on the scapegoat.

Not sure if this is just myth? But I did hear it taught a while back.

Oh, vague memory. There was something about something possibly turning red (and not blood.) I do remember reading something like that. I also have the memory of a sieve, so I didn't retain enough to fill in the blanks. Only a vague I didn't get that part" attached to it. lol

 

[mwc68]

I'm confused.

This is what I'm kind of seeing here.

"The sun is the center of our solar system. Earth is the third planet from the sun. The moon orbits earth."

"You have a right to your opinion."

What does "you have a right to your opinion" mean in this context?

Nothing in that context

 

[mwc68]

I'm confused.

This is what I'm kind of seeing here.

"The sun is the center of our solar system. Earth is the third planet from the sun. The moon orbits earth."

"You have a right to your opinion."

What does "you have a right to your opinion" mean in this context?

There is another thread for this

 

[atwhatcost]

All I can say is that there is NO SCRIPTURAL BASIS for that teaching. The teaching may be Talmudic; but I do not find it in a word search of the Babylonian Talmud. I do not own a copy of the Jerusalem Talmud .

Still, vague memory. Back when I was studying that book, when I had a question, I'd ask on Yahoo Answers, and specify that I'd like Jewish folks to answer. (You just don't want anyone to answer on Yahoo's religion ans spirituality board, because... well, whew! Many, many trolls and even more nonbelievers with lots of prove-a-points.) So maybe that's where I learned it. (Or not learned it, since I can't remember exactly what I learned. lol)

Also might have been John Gill writing about something he learned through the Jarchi Targum. He writes about several targums, but seems to trust Jarchi's the most.

 

[Utah]

I did nothing no different than you, Exodus is as much of God''s word as Psalms.

Jesus' sacrifice ended animal sacrifices but did not end glorifying God through music and prayer.

 

[atwhatcost]

There is another thread for this

And I didn't get that either. Do you mean Marc would get what you meant because a conversation the two of you have on another thread, or do you want me to start another thread just to ask you this? Or, is often the case, was there a third choice I haven't conceived of? lol