Joyce Meyer -- False Teacher
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Yes, but what if it's not a "congregation" (not a church). What if it's a woman like say, Corrie ten Boom, Elizabeth Elliot, or Mother Theresa who would have a speaking engagement that people would attend. None of these women were pastors. Should they have no venue for speaking about their experiences as Christians and well as their understanding and application of scripture to the challenges they faced?
Would this be acceptable if only women attended these speaking engagements? Or is it okay for a man to go hear a Christian female speak about her experiences with God? What if it wasn't a live meeting, but a recorded speech? Would that be considered teaching? If it's not acceptable, why would it be okay to read a book about it, but not hear her speaking live?
Would this be acceptable if only women attended these speaking engagements? Or is it okay for a man to go hear a Christian female speak about her experiences with God? What if it wasn't a live meeting, but a recorded speech? Would that be considered teaching? If it's not acceptable, why would it be okay to read a book about it, but not hear her speaking live?
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I have high regard for the word. It is truth. I have studied these matters in depth, and God speaks to me through the scriptures and He isn't saying what you say. It's your choice whether you want to remain complacent in your fleshly reading and comprehension or whether you want to really know what God's heart is about this. I went for the latter.
Question: "Women pastors / preachers? Can a woman be a pastor or preacher?"Answer: There is perhaps no more hotly debated issue in the church today than the issue of women serving as pastors/preachers. As a result, it is very important to not see this issue as men versus women. There are women who believe women should not serve as pastors and that the Bible places restrictions on the ministry of women, and there are men who believe women can serve as preachers and that there are no restrictions on women in ministry. This is not an issue of chauvinism or discrimination. It is an issue of biblical interpretation.
The Word of God proclaims, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11–12). In the church, God assigns different roles to men and women. This is a result of the way mankind was created and the way in which sin entered the world (1 Timothy 2:13–14). God, through the apostle Paul, restricts women from serving in roles of teaching and/or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors over men, which definitely includes preaching to them, teaching them publicly, and exercising spiritual authority over them.
There are many objections to this view of women in pastoral ministry. A common one is that Paul restricts women from teaching because in the first century, women were typically uneducated. However, 1 Timothy 2:11–14 nowhere mentions educational status. If education were a qualification for ministry, then the majority of Jesus’ disciples would not have been qualified. A second common objection is that Paul only restricted the women of Ephesus from teaching men (1 Timothy was written to Timothy, the pastor of the church in Ephesus). Ephesus was known for its temple to Artemis, and women were the authorities in that branch of paganism—therefore, the theory goes, Paul was only reacting against the female-led customs of the Ephesian idolaters, and the church needed to be different. However, the book of 1 Timothy nowhere mentions Artemis, nor does Paul mention the standard practice of Artemis worshipers as a reason for the restrictions in 1 Timothy 2:11–12.
A third objection is that Paul is only referring to husbands and wives, not men and women in general. The Greek words for “woman” and “man” in 1 Timothy 2 could refer to husbands and wives; however, the basic meaning of the words is broader than that. Further, the same Greek words are used in verses 8–10. Are only husbands to lift up holy hands in prayer without anger and disputing (verse 8)? Are only wives to dress modestly, have good deeds, and worship God (verses 9–10)? Of course not. Verses 8–10 clearly refer to all men and women, not just husbands and wives. There is nothing in the context that would indicate a narrowing to husbands and wives in verses 11–14.
Yet another objection to this interpretation of women in pastoral ministry is in relation to women who held positions of leadership in the Bible, specifically Miriam, Deborah, and Huldah in the Old Testament. It is true that these women where chosen by God for special service to Him and that they stand as models of faith, courage, and, yes, leadership. However, the authority of women in the Old Testament is not relevant to the issue of pastors in the church. The New Testament Epistles present a new paradigm for God’s people—the church, the body of Christ—and that paradigm involves an authority structure unique to the church, not for the nation of Israel or any other Old Testament entity.
Similar arguments are made using Priscilla and Phoebe in the New Testament. In Acts 18, Priscilla and Aquila are presented as faithful ministers for Christ. Priscilla’s name is mentioned first, perhaps indicating that she was more prominent in ministry than her husband. Did Priscilla and her husband teach the gospel of Jesus Christ to Apollos? Yes, in their home they “explained to him the way of God more adequately” (Acts 18:26). Does the Bible ever say that Priscilla pastored a church or taught publicly or became the spiritual leader of a congregation of saints? No. As far as we know, Priscilla was not involved in ministry activity in contradiction to 1 Timothy 2:11–14.
In Romans 16:1, Phoebe is called a “deacon” (or “servant”) in the church and is highly commended by Paul. But, as with Priscilla, there is nothing in Scripture to indicate that Phoebe was a pastor or a teacher of men in the church. “Able to teach” is given as a qualification for elders, but not for deacons (1 Timothy 3:1–13; Titus 1:6–9).
The structure of 1 Timothy 2:11–14 makes the reason why women cannot be pastors perfectly clear. Verse 13 begins with “for,” giving the “cause” of Paul’s statement in verses 11–12. Why should women not teach or have authority over men? Because “Adam was created first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived” (verses 13–14). God created Adam first and then created Eve to be a “helper” for Adam. The order of creation has universal application in the family (Ephesians 5:22–33) and in the church.
The fact that Eve was deceived is also given in 1 Timothy 2:14 as a reason for women not serving as pastors or having spiritual authority over men. This does not mean that women are gullible or that they are all more easily deceived than men. If all women are more easily deceived, why would they be allowed to teach children (who are easily deceived) and other women (who are supposedly more easily deceived)? The text simply says that women are not to teach men or have spiritual authority over men because Eve was deceived. God has chosen to give men the primary teaching authority in the church.
Many women excel in gifts of hospitality, mercy, teaching, evangelism, and helps. Much of the ministry of the local church depends on women. Women in the church are not restricted from public praying or prophesying (1 Corinthians 11:5), only from having spiritual teaching authority over men. The Bible nowhere restricts women from exercising the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12). Women, just as much as men, are called to minister to others, to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22–23), and to proclaim the gospel to the lost (Matthew 28:18–20; Acts 1:8; 1 Peter 3:15).
God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This is not because men are necessarily better teachers or because women are inferior or less intelligent (which is not the case). It is simply the way God designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership—in their lives and through their words. Women are to take a less authoritative role. Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3–5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors to men. This does not make women less important, by any means, but rather gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with God’s plan and His gifting of them.
Read more: Women pastors / preachers? Can a woman be a pastor or preacher?
There is something that I suspected which has been proven true by a teacher called Tim Martin.
I have suspected your view of two thing theologically makes a massive difference.
The first is the power of words and the second is what is faith.
It appears all word of faith followers believe in the ability to command things into existance, even that is their God given power, which God himself cannot influence.
Secondly faith is a thing that exists which comes into being by seeing the thing you want and then speaking it into existance. In a very real way, I see this as a different belief system, though the words appear the same, it is positivism, where only positive aspirations are a blessing, and anything negative is evil.
The problem with this simplistic idea, talking about sin is evil, being truthful about problems etc. becomes wrong. Now it appears the new WOF stay a bit lighter on prosperity but still preach the same world view, while appearing to be sound in a biblical sense actually are preaching a different gospel. The problem is you will say things like I do not understand Gods word when you view on the same passages is very different. Now I am very good at reducing down beliefs into the ethical foundations, so bear with me, I will come to understand where you are coming from.
For me the most interesting thing is the idea that healing and commanding things into existance is an occult practice, but has now come into christian circles which it never had a place in. There is a close similarity to magic and casting spells.
The problem is most people may be unaware to the subtle differences, but hey, that is why God calls people like me to shine a light in the dark corners where sin tries to hide. It has got to make you laugh, that God can be mocked, but He really cannot.
By the way, I find it strange that Jeremiah and the prophecies about false prophets is such a common theme in these issues, I would be truly worried when peace, wealth and domination are such a highly promoted theme.
I have suspected your view of two thing theologically makes a massive difference.
The first is the power of words and the second is what is faith.
It appears all word of faith followers believe in the ability to command things into existance, even that is their God given power, which God himself cannot influence.
Secondly faith is a thing that exists which comes into being by seeing the thing you want and then speaking it into existance. In a very real way, I see this as a different belief system, though the words appear the same, it is positivism, where only positive aspirations are a blessing, and anything negative is evil.
The problem with this simplistic idea, talking about sin is evil, being truthful about problems etc. becomes wrong. Now it appears the new WOF stay a bit lighter on prosperity but still preach the same world view, while appearing to be sound in a biblical sense actually are preaching a different gospel. The problem is you will say things like I do not understand Gods word when you view on the same passages is very different. Now I am very good at reducing down beliefs into the ethical foundations, so bear with me, I will come to understand where you are coming from.
For me the most interesting thing is the idea that healing and commanding things into existance is an occult practice, but has now come into christian circles which it never had a place in. There is a close similarity to magic and casting spells.
The problem is most people may be unaware to the subtle differences, but hey, that is why God calls people like me to shine a light in the dark corners where sin tries to hide. It has got to make you laugh, that God can be mocked, but He really cannot.
By the way, I find it strange that Jeremiah and the prophecies about false prophets is such a common theme in these issues, I would be truly worried when peace, wealth and domination are such a highly promoted theme.
Read the sources i posted. Im not going to act like im the arbiter of what women can and cant do. And im not going to act like im God and know the answer to every loophole you look for. All i know is what the Bible says and i trust the Bible as the word of God so i wont go against it.
Some people cant look past their preconceived political viewpoints to accept what scripture says. Im not one of those, i accept what the scriptures say. If someone could show the scriptures dont say what they say i would take it to heart. Noone has.
Some people cant look past their preconceived political viewpoints to accept what scripture says. Im not one of those, i accept what the scriptures say. If someone could show the scriptures dont say what they say i would take it to heart. Noone has.
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Im going to be brutally honest here. You sound like a very narcissistic person thinking you are above all others in this thread. If you want to debate the issue, show the verses i linked to are wrong. Ive heard you say "i, i, i," and say your interpretation is perfect as you dont post scripture. This seems like what a self-aggrandizing person would say. The comment about WoF makes sense in context to that, as WoF preaches a gospel of "Me"
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You like JM and support her to the hilt and her teaching. She is 100% WOF, maybe more subtle, but straight down the line.
She teaches as a child of God, you are given healing, you just have to speak it into existance.
If you want possessions, you just speak them into existance.
This probably extends into salvation, you believe it and confess it, so it is true.
Now I would call all this heresy. I am sharing my understanding. I cannot limit God except in what I do personally in my life and how I turn my heart. I am not given healing by right, or automatically. I am not eternal, I am a sinner saved by grace.
I confess my sins, and repent of them, and trust Jesus to wash me clean through the cross. I have no creative powers, I have only what God gives me, and the gift to ask and share my heart felt response to needs I come across.
I do not desire possessions, but work to do things that will help others, and get paid as a result. I commit all the things I do to the Lord and ask to understand His will in the situation. If through the gift of faith, I can claim something, I will.
I regard the idea that I can command anything spiritual or supernatural other than in Jesus's name as blasphemy. It is putting my authority above the Lords, when I am merely part of His family exercising His will.
Now this is the tradition of the church I am part of, so it is not "my opinion" or an odd way of looking at Jesus, but is the evangelical traditional position. So this makes me wonder where your position comes from, because it is certainly not reflected in my expressions, which you have regarded as wrong.
She teaches as a child of God, you are given healing, you just have to speak it into existance.
If you want possessions, you just speak them into existance.
This probably extends into salvation, you believe it and confess it, so it is true.
Now I would call all this heresy. I am sharing my understanding. I cannot limit God except in what I do personally in my life and how I turn my heart. I am not given healing by right, or automatically. I am not eternal, I am a sinner saved by grace.
I confess my sins, and repent of them, and trust Jesus to wash me clean through the cross. I have no creative powers, I have only what God gives me, and the gift to ask and share my heart felt response to needs I come across.
I do not desire possessions, but work to do things that will help others, and get paid as a result. I commit all the things I do to the Lord and ask to understand His will in the situation. If through the gift of faith, I can claim something, I will.
I regard the idea that I can command anything spiritual or supernatural other than in Jesus's name as blasphemy. It is putting my authority above the Lords, when I am merely part of His family exercising His will.
Now this is the tradition of the church I am part of, so it is not "my opinion" or an odd way of looking at Jesus, but is the evangelical traditional position. So this makes me wonder where your position comes from, because it is certainly not reflected in my expressions, which you have regarded as wrong.
You also have a choice to not be manipulative in your speech 
If you been here long enough, you'll find that the bold above is a common line of defence to try and coerce someone into believing/submitting to what they have to say. Just try and think about the person on the receiving end of such a comment, and what it could possibly make them feel/think...to the weak it would be something like, "Gee, I better listen because I don't want to disregard verse nor disbelieve them." Or something like that.
It's not very nice I don't think.
If you been here long enough, you'll find that the bold above is a common line of defence to try and coerce someone into believing/submitting to what they have to say. Just try and think about the person on the receiving end of such a comment, and what it could possibly make them feel/think...to the weak it would be something like, "Gee, I better listen because I don't want to disregard verse nor disbelieve them." Or something like that.
It's not very nice I don't think.
There is an obvious issue. If the ethic is wrong, everything is distorted. I got to laugh, because your answer is not it is wrong, but listen and try it. That is what people say about astrology, or palm reading or horoscopes.
But the reality is if you submit to the authority behind the ideas you get what you deserve.
Jesus as tempted by Satan. "If you bow down and worship me you will get all the wealth and prosperity you desire."
Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ Matt 4:10
The Lord commanded us like this
Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
Matt 10:39
Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
John 12:25
What is being preached here is prosperity without giving up, having the right approach, brokenness and repentance.
It has to done through giving up ones life, because everything has to be rebuilt.
But this does not speak to you, but fine, that is how we will never meet, though it is there in the word.
But the reality is if you submit to the authority behind the ideas you get what you deserve.
Jesus as tempted by Satan. "If you bow down and worship me you will get all the wealth and prosperity you desire."
Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ Matt 4:10
The Lord commanded us like this
Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
Matt 10:39
Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
John 12:25
What is being preached here is prosperity without giving up, having the right approach, brokenness and repentance.
It has to done through giving up ones life, because everything has to be rebuilt.
But this does not speak to you, but fine, that is how we will never meet, though it is there in the word.