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I believe only those who have root in God's Word are the Elect and they endure in the faith. But that does not mean others were not regenerated and did not endure for a short time and then fell away. A believer can go from a saved state to a lost state. For you cannot say that all believers are going to be saved. That is false to teach that. There are many who have admitted to once following Jesus but they walked away from him. This can be seen even in the Bible.
As for greater and lesser sins: Read 1 John 5:16-18.
Also, how do you ignore Paul's many warnings on sin in the New Testament? He says they that which do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. He says, be not deceived. He is talking to the brethren and not unbelievers.
Also, in Revelation 21:8, it says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. All means all. This would include believers, too. They are not allowed to lie.
As for greater and lesser sins: Read 1 John 5:16-18.
Also, how do you ignore Paul's many warnings on sin in the New Testament? He says they that which do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. He says, be not deceived. He is talking to the brethren and not unbelievers.
Also, in Revelation 21:8, it says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. All means all. This would include believers, too. They are not allowed to lie.
E
you cannot state that all BELIEVERS are going to be saved?
hellooooo...do you not see the irony in that?
What is a believer to you then? Someone who believes but does not believe as do you?
If that is your judgement, perhaps you may well be judged according to your own words for God says that He will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy
Jesus is our High Priest
Why do we need a High Priest if we never sin?
hellooooo...do you not see the irony in that?
What is a believer to you then? Someone who believes but does not believe as do you?
If that is your judgement, perhaps you may well be judged according to your own words for God says that He will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy
Jesus is our High Priest
Why do we need a High Priest if we never sin?
Why the idea of classifying sin fails
Lying. Is lying saying something is not true, or exaguration for effect or painting a picture which is intended for a reason that may be called dis-honest.
You can end up lying in many different ways, to yourself be putting the wrong things as more important than others, as saying something is one way when it is actually another. If you analyse most of language you will find truth is not our primary means of communication but emotional intent.
Now at what point do you say this is sin, or just an incorrect description of what is?
So judging yourself ends up in the same place. Unless you are pure and see correctly you do not know. So we stand alone on grace and trust "the Lord will forgive our sins as we forgive those who sin against us."
So the principle is on us exercising forgiveness, not on knowing we are walking in perfection, which we never can.
It is not that we intend to stay in conscious sin, it is just admiting we are limited frail human beings.
Look as King David, look at Samson, look at Job, all called men of God. They failed and yet were called faithful, followers after Gods heart. The direction of the heart matters more than self understanding and legalism.
Lying. Is lying saying something is not true, or exaguration for effect or painting a picture which is intended for a reason that may be called dis-honest.
You can end up lying in many different ways, to yourself be putting the wrong things as more important than others, as saying something is one way when it is actually another. If you analyse most of language you will find truth is not our primary means of communication but emotional intent.
Now at what point do you say this is sin, or just an incorrect description of what is?
So judging yourself ends up in the same place. Unless you are pure and see correctly you do not know. So we stand alone on grace and trust "the Lord will forgive our sins as we forgive those who sin against us."
So the principle is on us exercising forgiveness, not on knowing we are walking in perfection, which we never can.
It is not that we intend to stay in conscious sin, it is just admiting we are limited frail human beings.
Look as King David, look at Samson, look at Job, all called men of God. They failed and yet were called faithful, followers after Gods heart. The direction of the heart matters more than self understanding and legalism.
E
Nope. then it would be a gospel of works, and not grace, we would all be under law not grace. why do you place yourself under law?
eph 2: 8-10
we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH and NOT WORKS. Those who are saved by grace are created to do works and thus do them. (obedience is works my friend)
Repentance is part of the gospel. it is not a work of man. Get real man, when are you going to prove your point?
Obey the gospel. when are you going to obey the gospel (repent and believe)?
it has nothing do with with doing good works.
I do have hope. If I do not have eternal life (security) I have no hope.
why do you think the bible keeps teaching is we HAVE THIS HOPE. so our faith will never fail us.
dude, I told ya not to bring history into the conversation. Your post proves nothing, My guide is the word of God. not what some long since dead people who did NOT WRITE THE WORD said.
stop listening to men, and listen To God.
If your saved, YOU WILL DO WHAT GOD SAYS.
if your not YOU WILL NOT (because your faith is dead, James)
period. no inbetween,
eph 2: 8-10
we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH and NOT WORKS. Those who are saved by grace are created to do works and thus do them. (obedience is works my friend)
Repentance is part of the gospel. it is not a work of man. Get real man, when are you going to prove your point?
Obey the gospel. when are you going to obey the gospel (repent and believe)?
it has nothing do with with doing good works.
I do have hope. If I do not have eternal life (security) I have no hope.
why do you think the bible keeps teaching is we HAVE THIS HOPE. so our faith will never fail us.
dude, I told ya not to bring history into the conversation. Your post proves nothing, My guide is the word of God. not what some long since dead people who did NOT WRITE THE WORD said.
stop listening to men, and listen To God.
If your saved, YOU WILL DO WHAT GOD SAYS.
if your not YOU WILL NOT (because your faith is dead, James)
period. no inbetween,
E
your right, not all who believe will be saved,
it takes true faith in Christ (their foundation)
one whos faith is in christ, can never be crushed, broken, or destroyed.
one who believes in Christ, but does not have faith in Christ, their foundation is in sand, when the things of the world come, they fall away.
they were never saved, period.
Oh you mean like paul. who said the people who do these sins will not inherit the kingdom of God. then follows it by the words "and such were some of you, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of Christ.
ok. Nice try.
Adam ate a peace of fruit, and the fall of mankind, and ongoing fall of the world occured, which has been going on for over 6000 years now. ALL of creation on the earth was affected by that one act, eating a peace of fruit.
and you want to tell me not all sin is equal in the eyes of God as far as separating us from him.
no thanks. I bought it growing up when I was tought it, but I started to study for myself. and found it not to be true, not going to fall for that trap again so I can excuse my sin and appear more righteous than I really am.
You continue to do this, thats up to you. but I will not return to the filth of your gospel
K
I just showed you 2 scriptures that shows obedience comes first before and you still rejected them..
So you are saved before you repent of your sins ?
If you answer yes to that then you make Jesus a liar, for He is the one that said if you do not repent you will perish. So a person can not be saved before obeying to repent of their sins. Then Acts clearly says the Holy Spirit is given only to those who obey. What are they obeying ?
To put their trust in the Lord, repent of their sins, and get baptized............Acts 2:38
The bible says we have hope of receiving eternal life by keeping the faith, it does not say we have hope because we already have it.................Please stop flipping around the scriptures to fit your doctrine, as Paul shows many times keeping the faith and building on that foundation comes before one receives salvation. Apostle Peter also states salvation is the ending result of our faith, not the beginning.........1 Peter 1:9
Peter says you receive at the end of your faith the salvation of your souls.
You just like the real history of the early church that shows eternal security was started by a man named Augustine who also taught other fallacies. That is the only reason you did not want history brought in because if proves the doctrine man made and false.
Once again I do not listen to men, as I listen to the Holy Spirit who has guided me to these things to show others who are stuck in this man made doctrine. Men were the ones who guided me eternal security and oSAS, but the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the Truth and brought me out of the false teaching.....
No my faith is alive and active because the Holy Spirit guides my actions, speech, and walk which is why I stay humble and do not come back with insults, false allegations, and condemning remarks toward others as some have done on here from the doctrine you follow. Instead of debating with me over this subject maybe you should spend time calling out those of the OSAS doctrine on here that act like wolves in sheep clothing. They abuse the faith and make it a license of iniquity, and misuse how to rebuke and reprove others by being condemning in nature.
J
It turns into a contradictory wasteland, most telling already mentioned, their claims of having perfection, but not having perfection, this silly "stumble" sins concept they permit only themselves, and oblivious that falling short of the glory of God in just one sin, which our Lord pointed out can be sin in our hearts we've not physically committed: one little sin and you've broken the entire law (James 2:10). Their so-called "doctrines" are quicksand of works salvation, dead works. Their claims of the perfect righteousness of Christ proves them utter frauds, people of the flesh, of self righteousness, not the imputed righteousness of Christ, alone, that saves.
Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:8-9
Kenneth. Peter is telling the believers, they believe and are saved, the fruit of which is love of Jesus, and being filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy in the present.
The order is always, you believe, repent and are filled with the Holy Spirit. That is salvation, being born into the Kingdom here. Your inheritence is stored in heaven, but you are a child now.
Jesus included in the Lords prayer, "Forgive us our sins just as we forgive those who sin against us"
Not because we are perfect, but because we are being sanctified.
And if we reach maturity and walking aright, does that make us proud and boastful? No, because that would be pride and self righteousness. We are forever weak, and in need of the Lord, to have communion, to dwell with Him.
We cannot focus on sin or perfection but on loving from the heart. Anything else and we will sin and fall. So in your attempt to nit-pick and accuse the bretheren of sin, you fail, rather than encouraging people to find ways to execute good works.
I imagine a believer who continually needs cleaning, so that one day, the dirt no longer sticks and the walk is true. But that is hard because we are in the flesh and easily distracted. If this was not so, then we would be law keeps, still under Moses and needing to follow all the commands and be careful to not upset things but always keep our slate clean, but this is self righteousness and claiming I am ok because I have achieved x rather than glorying in the Lord.
1 Peter 1:8-9
Kenneth. Peter is telling the believers, they believe and are saved, the fruit of which is love of Jesus, and being filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy in the present.
The order is always, you believe, repent and are filled with the Holy Spirit. That is salvation, being born into the Kingdom here. Your inheritence is stored in heaven, but you are a child now.
Jesus included in the Lords prayer, "Forgive us our sins just as we forgive those who sin against us"
Not because we are perfect, but because we are being sanctified.
And if we reach maturity and walking aright, does that make us proud and boastful? No, because that would be pride and self righteousness. We are forever weak, and in need of the Lord, to have communion, to dwell with Him.
We cannot focus on sin or perfection but on loving from the heart. Anything else and we will sin and fall. So in your attempt to nit-pick and accuse the bretheren of sin, you fail, rather than encouraging people to find ways to execute good works.
I imagine a believer who continually needs cleaning, so that one day, the dirt no longer sticks and the walk is true. But that is hard because we are in the flesh and easily distracted. If this was not so, then we would be law keeps, still under Moses and needing to follow all the commands and be careful to not upset things but always keep our slate clean, but this is self righteousness and claiming I am ok because I have achieved x rather than glorying in the Lord.
E
No. Youo did not show me any such passage. Only your twisted view.
Repent is not a work of obedience, It is Gods work in us, God has to show us his work, so we have the ability to repent.
The gospel of Christ, Believe in the name of Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household type of thing. If one has not repented, That can have no faith.
We are not talking about repentance or faith. those are not outward works. We are talking about Obeying Gods commands (law)
Oh, now you sadly went off the deep end, You also think one must do the WORK of water baptism to be saved. oh woe is me, your trying to earn your salvation by your deeds. You poor thing, Repent my friend of your self righteous deeds, and come to Christ. Place your foundation in the one who can not be broken (christ) no matter what this world throws against it, and not in yourself (sand)
J
It's an insulting question, because it has been answered a thousand times around here. Salvation is the righteousness of Christ. This you don't understand, this you reject. You stumble at the Cornerstone, which, in the end, is going to crush you, if you don't repent.
But this vain repetition you indulge in has come down to trolling, as you've been already provided all the answers you reject, too many times. Maybe find another thread to spread your painfully repetitive garbage "gospel" around in and get the attention you crave?
But this vain repetition you indulge in has come down to trolling, as you've been already provided all the answers you reject, too many times. Maybe find another thread to spread your painfully repetitive garbage "gospel" around in and get the attention you crave?
E
yes of course
it's kind of like a kid making up a story and in order for the story to be believable, the child has to add and add to the story until he/she has met himself/herself at the beginning and is not sure how he/she got there
please excuse the equal opportunity gender notations...lest I be accused of having anyone in particular in mind and therefore maligning them and therefore giving yet more fodder to the fake fire of persecution through questioning their sacred word which is sacroscant and on par with the Holy Spirit manifesting through the teaching herein identified by its support of the ability to earn one's salvation and having done so, to keep it even though an entire nation who met God almost face to face, was unable to do so
it's kind of like a kid making up a story and in order for the story to be believable, the child has to add and add to the story until he/she has met himself/herself at the beginning and is not sure how he/she got there
please excuse the equal opportunity gender notations...lest I be accused of having anyone in particular in mind and therefore maligning them and therefore giving yet more fodder to the fake fire of persecution through questioning their sacred word which is sacroscant and on par with the Holy Spirit manifesting through the teaching herein identified by its support of the ability to earn one's salvation and having done so, to keep it even though an entire nation who met God almost face to face, was unable to do so
Well, I could say the same about you - looking at Scriptures with a certain bias.
In my post I addressed 1 Cor. 3 . . . You brought up building our house upon a firm foundation . . . which is basically what I had said anyway by saying - Our foundation is Jesus Christ. So now you go further explaining it when 1 Cor. 3 did just as good a job . . . My Jesus is my advocate, My Jesus died for me and rose so that I could have eternal life . . . simple gospel truth.
At least we can agree - Jesus Christ is our firm foundation, our Rock and our Savior.
In my post I addressed 1 Cor. 3 . . . You brought up building our house upon a firm foundation . . . which is basically what I had said anyway by saying - Our foundation is Jesus Christ. So now you go further explaining it when 1 Cor. 3 did just as good a job . . . My Jesus is my advocate, My Jesus died for me and rose so that I could have eternal life . . . simple gospel truth.
At least we can agree - Jesus Christ is our firm foundation, our Rock and our Savior.