Don't Mix law & Grace

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ladylynn

Guest
#1
#1
Too often it's posted and preached how we should have a "balance" of these two Bible truths. But the Bible says there is to be NO mixture. Be either hot or cold., not lukewarm. Rev.3:16
Be 100% under the law and you will be driven to Christ because of your inabilities
Be 100% under grace and you will fulfill the law by allowing Christ to fulfill all it's requirements on your behalf.
Anything in between is mixture and God is not pleased with lukewarmness. Rev.3:16

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for the second. Hebrews 8:7

For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
John 1:17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMqJ6Zg4C7U

Before posting, listen to the link and give an opinion.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#2
#2
I wanted to write a novel, so I started writing one. Want to know how far I could get without understanding the rules of novel writing? Chapter 3. Twice.

The rules of writing a novel aren't a novel. They tell you what a novel looks like. The Law is not God. They tell us what he looks like. If I write a novel without the rules, I'm not writing a novel. I'm writing a long winded, fully exasperating mixed up piece of junk. If I try to follow God without understanding him, all I get is a long winded, fully exasperating mixed up piece of junk.

There is no following God without knowing what he wants and who he is. That's the law. Understanding that is grace. God's grace.

I did not watch the video simply because I'm still busy erasing man's gospel out of my mind from listening to many "preachers" who never understood enough to preach, but I was just naive enough to think they did. I don't know the preacher, so I'm not going to automatically trust him, just because there's a link.

(And that's skipping the whole real lessons of what lukewarmness meant to that church and to us. Considering you've included having peace with ourselves as part of your gospel message, I thought I'd bring that up, but that's a side issue to what you're saying.)
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#3
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#3
JP is one of the smartest people I have read. (Can't stand to listen to him, but he writes great books.) But, still, I find him to be off base on several issues.

But, that is the case with just about any preacher, anywhere.
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#4
#4
atwhatcost said:
I wanted to write a novel, so I started writing one. Want to know how far I could get without understanding the rules of novel writing? Chapter 3. Twice.

The rules of writing a novel aren't a novel. They tell you what a novel looks like. The Law is not God. They tell us what he looks like. If I write a novel without the rules, I'm not writing a novel. I'm writing a long winded, fully exasperating mixed up piece of junk. If I try to follow God without understanding him, all I get is a long winded, fully exasperating mixed up piece of junk.

There is no following God without knowing what he wants and who he is. That's the law. Understanding that is grace. God's grace.

I did not watch the video simply because I'm still busy erasing man's gospel out of my mind from listening to many "preachers" who never understood enough to preach, but I was just naive enough to think they did. I don't know the preacher, so I'm not going to automatically trust him, just because there's a link.

(And that's skipping the whole real lessons of what lukewarmness meant to that church and to us. Considering you've included having peace with ourselves as part of your gospel message, I thought I'd bring that up, but that's a side issue to what you're saying.)
Click to expand...





You did not listen to the link., you don't know me., you read words I have at the bottom of my name. What you did is called "knee jerk" reaction and it's always wrong. Many Christians are afflicted with this malady.

If you didn't want to discuss the thread, why comment?? and not only comment but with negativism as well as criticism? You basically looked very fast.,... judged and posted without knowing what was being discussed. What is the point???

I wanted to write a novel, so I started writing one. Want to know how far I could get without understanding the rules of novel writing? Chapter 3. Twice.

The rules of writing a novel aren't a novel. They tell you what a novel looks like. The Law is not God. They tell us what he looks like. If I write a novel without the rules, I'm not writing a novel. I'm writing a long winded, fully exasperating mixed up piece of junk. If I try to follow God without understanding him, all I get is a long winded, fully exasperating mixed up piece of junk.


I disagree with that 100% because we are not talking about a novel here, it's about God's will and it is not looking at the law that we find out about God, it is looking at Jesus that we will see the Father. I suggest you listen to the link and find out what is being said before you misjudge me again and again ..... and again. Christians are called to something higher than knee jerk reactions.
 
InSpiritInTruth

InSpiritInTruth

Banned
#5
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#5
Psalm 19:7
The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Isaiah 8:16
Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#6
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#6
ladylynn said:
You did not listen to the link., you don't know me., you read words I have at the bottom of my name. What you did is called "knee jerk" reaction and it's always wrong. Many Christians are afflicted with this malady.

If you didn't want to discuss the thread, why comment?? and not only comment but with negativism as well as criticism? You basically looked very fast.,... judged and posted without knowing what was being discussed. What is the point???

I wanted to write a novel, so I started writing one. Want to know how far I could get without understanding the rules of novel writing? Chapter 3. Twice.

The rules of writing a novel aren't a novel. They tell you what a novel looks like. The Law is not God. They tell us what he looks like. If I write a novel without the rules, I'm not writing a novel. I'm writing a long winded, fully exasperating mixed up piece of junk. If I try to follow God without understanding him, all I get is a long winded, fully exasperating mixed up piece of junk.


I disagree with that 100% because we are not talking about a novel here, it's about God's will and it is not looking at the law that we find out about God, it is looking at Jesus that we will see the Father. I suggest you listen to the link and find out what is being said before you misjudge me again and again ..... and again. Christians are called to something higher than knee jerk reactions.
Click to expand...
Now, there is some straight truth in those words.
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#7
#7
InSpiritInTruth said:
Psalm 19:7
The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Isaiah 8:16
Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Click to expand...
If you don't want to discuss the topic, why put up verses without any reference to what this thread is about?? We cannot mix law with grace as believers. We are under the new covenant and are called to grace.

The more you try to keep the law by your efforts, the more it will bring forth what it was designed to bring forth------your failings and sins.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#8
#8
we do not mix law and grace in matters of soteriology.

but surely we can agree there are rules God expects us to follow?
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#9
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#9
ladylynn said:
If you don't want to discuss the topic, why put up verses without any reference to what this thread is about?? We cannot mix law with grace as believers. We are under the new covenant and are called to grace.

The more you try to keep the law by your efforts, the more it will bring forth what it was designed to bring forth------your failings and sins.
Click to expand...
Girl, you just flat nail it sometimes! Go for it.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
#10
#10
psychomom said:
we do not mix law and grace in matters of soteriology.

but surely we can agree there are rules God expects us to follow?
Click to expand...



The reason for the link was to discuss that very issue. Mixing law with grace. What are we to follow and what is God's will? The law??? No., not the law. We are not to MIX law with grace and yet again., the concept is so foreign to some Christians they can't even consider it since so many of us have been mixing for years!!. :rolleyes:
 
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ladylynn

Guest
#11
#11
Willie-T said:
Girl, you just flat nail it sometimes! Go for it.
Click to expand...


Can't take credit for that last sentence Willie-T., a certain smart Pastor you mentioned you like- he said it first. I just posted it because it was so applicable to the subject here.
 
InSpiritInTruth

InSpiritInTruth

Banned
#12
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#12
ladylynn said:
If you don't want to discuss the topic, why put up verses without any reference to what this thread is about?? We cannot mix law with grace as believers. We are under the new covenant and are called to grace.

The more you try to keep the law by your efforts, the more it will bring forth what it was designed to bring forth------your failings and sins.
Click to expand...
Clearly you do not understand the verses I posted, and what place the law has even in the New Covenant. :)

Hebrews 8:7-10 "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"
 
Joidevivre

Joidevivre

Senior Member
#13
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
271
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#13
I don't mix it - I live by grace, sleep grace, eat grace, preach grace, love grace, walk with grace, sing about grace, depend on grace, and if I could change my name, it would be Grace.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#14
#14
ladylynn said:
The reason for the link was to discuss that very issue. Mixing law with grace. What are we to follow and what is God's will? The law??? No., not the law. We are not to MIX law with grace and yet again., the concept is so foreign to some Christians they can't even consider it since so many of us have been mixing for years!!. :rolleyes:
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oic, can't play the link atm. :eek:

i do think there's a place for law in the life of all believers, though.
it pleases God for us to obey Him, it enhances our witness to the Gospel,
and it keeps folks from hollering 'antinomian' at us. :rolleyes:

exactly how all this is accomplished is prolly a whole nuther talk. :)

 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#15
Mar 13, 2014
41,534
16,412
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Tennessee
#15
Joidevivre said:
I don't mix it - I live by grace, sleep grace, eat grace, preach grace, love grace, walk with grace, sing about grace, depend on grace, and if I could change my name, it would be Grace.
Click to expand...
That's Amazing Grace.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
#16
#16
InSpiritInTruth said:
Clearly you do not understand the verses I posted, and what place the law has even in the New Covenant. :)

Hebrews 8:7-10 "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"
Click to expand...



It looked to me that you were showing the virtues of the law and those were the only verses I saw you posted. But this post shows much more. Especially Heb.8:7-10 Specifically vs 10... For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts; and I will be to them a God; and they shall be to me a people"

The law that is written on our hearts is the law of faith. A new covenant a new law. Under the new covenant we no longer need the 10 commandments as a schoolmaster. We now have the Holy Spirit and His Word to show us the deep things of God's grace and how to live our lives here.

Again., it must be hard for you guys to listen to a link the OP puts up for it is clear no one has YET listened and come on here to discuss the subject at hand in it's context. I look forward to 'someone' to do so!! ;)
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#17
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#17
ladylynn said:




Can't take credit for that last sentence Willie-T., a certain smart Pastor you mentioned you like- he said it first. I just posted it because it was so applicable to the subject here.
Click to expand...
I see you are reading Unmerited Favor. A good book. Just finished a study using it.
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#18
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
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#18
John 14:23,

Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Joseph Prince seems to be very confused about the law. He's not the only one,but I would expect that from a word of faith preacher.
What doe's Jesus mean by obeying him and what does Paul mean by 'works of the law'? What are good works, fruit of the Spirit.. we are not under the law but we are not lawless. Are not the moral laws good, and shouldn't we as christians aspire to be like that in our daily lives being prompted and or convicted by the Holy Spirit to do so?
 
InSpiritInTruth

InSpiritInTruth

Banned
#19
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#19
ladylynn said:
It looked to me that you were showing the virtues of the law and those were the only verses I saw you posted. But this post shows much more. Especially Heb.8:7-10 Specifically vs 10... For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts; and I will be to them a God; and they shall be to me a people"

The law that is written on our hearts is the law of faith. A new covenant a new law. Under the new covenant we no longer need the 10 commandments as a schoolmaster. We now have the Holy Spirit and His Word to show us the deep things of God's grace and how to live our lives here.

Again., it must be hard for you guys to listen to a link the OP puts up for it is clear no one has YET listened and come on here to discuss the subject at hand in it's context. I look forward to 'someone' to do so!! ;)
Click to expand...
Well at least you see by scripture there is a law involved in the New Covenant. And love fulfills the law as written, which includes loving the Lord our God with all our heart. So God shows mercy=grace to those who love Him and keep His commandments.

Exodus 20:6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Deuteronomy 5:10
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
 
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ladylynn

Guest
#20
#20
Willie-T said:
I see you are reading Unmerited Favor. A good book. Just finished a study using it.
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Yes you are right! :D I've had it for many months but keep coming back to it for reference when I find myself getting grace and law mixed. We live in such freedom in Christ yet we so often bind ourselves up with the law and it's incessant demands apart from faith. Who shall deliver me from the body of this death!!! HE WILL, Jesus Christ.
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you for you are NOT under law but under Grace.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 7:24-25 Wretched man that I am!! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

The question arises..what is the "law of God" Romans 3:27 the law of faith
The just shall live by faith., Without faith it is impossible to please God. Under the new covenant we do things by faith., our life is done in and by faith. We work to REST and we do that by Faith.

I wish I could type as fast as the speaker in the link posted preached but alas, I can't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMqJ6Zg4C7U
 
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