Creation, The Flood, And Millions Of Years
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P
Exodus chapter 20 verses 9 thru 11
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Well, if the 6 days of Genesis were indefinite periods of time as some here would have us to believe, possibly thousands, millions or even billions of years, then I guess that God commanded the Israelites to work for the same extended periods of time before taking a day off. I can just hear it now:
Moses: I'm going to work, children.
Children: What time will you be home, Dad?
Moses: You'll never see me again on this side of eternity.
It's ridiculous.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Well, if the 6 days of Genesis were indefinite periods of time as some here would have us to believe, possibly thousands, millions or even billions of years, then I guess that God commanded the Israelites to work for the same extended periods of time before taking a day off. I can just hear it now:
Moses: I'm going to work, children.
Children: What time will you be home, Dad?
Moses: You'll never see me again on this side of eternity.
It's ridiculous.
OH dear not all this again.
CONTEXT PLEASE!
Yes it is mentioned that a day is like a 1000 years, but context? This does not mean that Genesis day or any other day mentioned is a thousand days. I see it as the spiritual realm being detached from our constraints of time, spiritual realm can move through and see through our dimension of time which we are bound to.
One question that people overlook is when did Adams age begin? I think that this began after the eviction, Adam lived so many years, that is different to birthday and age. After the fall the biological ageing clock started, previous to that Adam could have easily lived for thousands and thousands of years in Eden.
ITEMS FOUND IN COAL!!!!
One other question, age of the earth based on geological features such as coal, so how is it possible that man made items have been found embedded in coal? There is even a story of miners coming up against a huge stone wall embedded in the coal. So that means coal takes less time to form than we think, or there was an advanced civilization pre dating the established human history by millions of years.
CONTEXT PLEASE!
Yes it is mentioned that a day is like a 1000 years, but context? This does not mean that Genesis day or any other day mentioned is a thousand days. I see it as the spiritual realm being detached from our constraints of time, spiritual realm can move through and see through our dimension of time which we are bound to.
One question that people overlook is when did Adams age begin? I think that this began after the eviction, Adam lived so many years, that is different to birthday and age. After the fall the biological ageing clock started, previous to that Adam could have easily lived for thousands and thousands of years in Eden.
ITEMS FOUND IN COAL!!!!
One other question, age of the earth based on geological features such as coal, so how is it possible that man made items have been found embedded in coal? There is even a story of miners coming up against a huge stone wall embedded in the coal. So that means coal takes less time to form than we think, or there was an advanced civilization pre dating the established human history by millions of years.
E
I hear ya it is for interesting display, for each way a day is explained used in verses is true, so the best it can measured is to 50% correct because don't know which way it is correct meanings can easily be flipped to mean the other it seems.
Same can be said for LEAD
Same can be said for LEAD
- plutonium-238 has a half-life of only 88 years. As it decays, Pu-238 emits radiation and becomes uranium-234. U-234 has a half-life of 245,000 years before it emits radiation and decays into thorium-230, which has a half-life of 75,400 years. Th-230, in turn, decays into radium-226 with a half-life of 1,607 years. Finally, the sample decays one last time into lead, which is stable indefinitely.
maybe its your interpretation which is ridiculous? in both cases it is yom and not 'day'. Thus the comparison is made on the basis of yoms. That does not prevent yom meaning a different length of time in each case. As yom means a period of light all that the comparison signifies is that both had patterns of periods of light.
God's periods of light would not be expected to be the same as man's.
God's periods of light would not be expected to be the same as man's.
P
Actually, you can have it both ways. I'll try to explain how.
Colossians chapter 2 verses 16 and 17
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Paul said that the Sabbath days are a shadow of things to come or that they foreshadow some future events. In other words, a Sabbath can be a literal 24 hour day and it can also foreshadow something else in the future. With this in mind, let's read about the first Sabbath:
Genesis chapter 2 verses 2 and 3
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Is it possible that God created everything in 6 literal days and then rested on the 7th literal day, but that the 7th literal day, the Sabbath, foreshadowed a future coming period of time in excess of 1 literal day? I believe that it's not only possible, but also what the Bible teaches us that God actually did:
Hebrews chapter 2 verse 5
For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
Much of the context of the epistle to the Hebrews is the world to come of which the author was speaking. With this in mind, please consider the following:
Hebrews chapter 4 verses 1 through 10
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
The author of this epistle wrote of a future rest which yet remains for the children of God which we are to be laboring to enter into and he likened it to the 7th day of rest that God Himself took back in Genesis chapter 2. This rest wasn't entered into when Joshua or Jesus, their names read the same in the Greek, brought the children of Israel into the promised land, but it is instead a rest which won't be fulfilled until the world to come. Yes, it's the same rest that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and others looked forward to as we read in the 11th chapter of this same epistle. Is it possible then that this future Sabbath or 7th day rest is indeed a 1,000 year period of time in that a day with the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day? I personally believe that it is. In other words, I personally believe that God deliberately worked during the creation week for 6 literal days which foreshadowed how His people would work for Him upon this earth for 6,000 years and that He rested on the 7th day because the 7th day foreshadows the 7th 1,000 year period of time upon this earth for man or the coming Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ when Christians will rest from their own labors even as God rested from His. With this possibility in mind, let's read what Peter wrote which has been alluded to here a few times already by different posters:
2 Peter chapter 3 verses 1 thru 13
This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Peter forewarned of last day scoffers who would be asking where is the promise of the Lord's second coming. Peter then encouraged his readers not to be ignorant of one thing:
That one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.
In other words, from God's perspective, it's only been about 2 days since Christ's incarnation, death, burial, resurrection and ascension back to heaven, so the Lord isn't really slack or slow concerning His promise to return. Furthermore, we read a lot about the day of the Lord in scripture and what is to occur on that day, but this same one day is like a thousand years principle applies there as well. In other words, if we were to compile a list of all the things which are yet to occur on the day of the Lord, then it would become rather obvious to us that all of these events will not transpire within the timeframe of one literal day, but rather within the timeframe of 1,000 years. Yes, some events will transpire immediately at the Lord's return, some will transpire during the Millennial Reign of Christ and some will transpire at the end of said 1,000 years or at the conclusion of this day. I'll give you one example of what I mean. Peter just finished speaking about a coming new heavens and a new earth, right? Well, when do they come? Do they come immediately at Christ's return? No, they do not. I'm not going to quote the entire 20th chapter of Revelation in which the Millennial Reign of Christ is detailed, but I will quote what happens at the end of said Reign or at the end of the 1,000 years or at the end of the day of the Lord:
Revelation chapter 20 verses 7 thru 11
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
At the conclusion of Christ's Millennial or 1,000 year Reign, Satan will be loosed, there will be one final rebellion and then comes the Great White Throne Judgment of Jesus Christ. Notice what happens when Christ sits upon said throne:
From whose face the earth and the heaven fled away.
In other words, there goes our present heaven and earth and Revelation chapter 21 then introduces us to the same new heavens and new earth that Peter wrote of. Again, the day of the Lord, prophetically speaking, is 1,000 years long whereas a literal day is but 24 hours in duration.
What year is it on the Hebrew calendar? It's the year 5775. If their calendar is correct and if God created the world in 6 days to show man that his appointed time to labor upon this earth was 6,000 years and that the 7th day Sabbath foreshadows the coming Millennial Reign of Christ, then the earth's clock is winding down.
This is how I see it.
Colossians chapter 2 verses 16 and 17
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Paul said that the Sabbath days are a shadow of things to come or that they foreshadow some future events. In other words, a Sabbath can be a literal 24 hour day and it can also foreshadow something else in the future. With this in mind, let's read about the first Sabbath:
Genesis chapter 2 verses 2 and 3
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Is it possible that God created everything in 6 literal days and then rested on the 7th literal day, but that the 7th literal day, the Sabbath, foreshadowed a future coming period of time in excess of 1 literal day? I believe that it's not only possible, but also what the Bible teaches us that God actually did:
Hebrews chapter 2 verse 5
For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
Much of the context of the epistle to the Hebrews is the world to come of which the author was speaking. With this in mind, please consider the following:
Hebrews chapter 4 verses 1 through 10
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
The author of this epistle wrote of a future rest which yet remains for the children of God which we are to be laboring to enter into and he likened it to the 7th day of rest that God Himself took back in Genesis chapter 2. This rest wasn't entered into when Joshua or Jesus, their names read the same in the Greek, brought the children of Israel into the promised land, but it is instead a rest which won't be fulfilled until the world to come. Yes, it's the same rest that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and others looked forward to as we read in the 11th chapter of this same epistle. Is it possible then that this future Sabbath or 7th day rest is indeed a 1,000 year period of time in that a day with the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day? I personally believe that it is. In other words, I personally believe that God deliberately worked during the creation week for 6 literal days which foreshadowed how His people would work for Him upon this earth for 6,000 years and that He rested on the 7th day because the 7th day foreshadows the 7th 1,000 year period of time upon this earth for man or the coming Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ when Christians will rest from their own labors even as God rested from His. With this possibility in mind, let's read what Peter wrote which has been alluded to here a few times already by different posters:
2 Peter chapter 3 verses 1 thru 13
This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Peter forewarned of last day scoffers who would be asking where is the promise of the Lord's second coming. Peter then encouraged his readers not to be ignorant of one thing:
That one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.
In other words, from God's perspective, it's only been about 2 days since Christ's incarnation, death, burial, resurrection and ascension back to heaven, so the Lord isn't really slack or slow concerning His promise to return. Furthermore, we read a lot about the day of the Lord in scripture and what is to occur on that day, but this same one day is like a thousand years principle applies there as well. In other words, if we were to compile a list of all the things which are yet to occur on the day of the Lord, then it would become rather obvious to us that all of these events will not transpire within the timeframe of one literal day, but rather within the timeframe of 1,000 years. Yes, some events will transpire immediately at the Lord's return, some will transpire during the Millennial Reign of Christ and some will transpire at the end of said 1,000 years or at the conclusion of this day. I'll give you one example of what I mean. Peter just finished speaking about a coming new heavens and a new earth, right? Well, when do they come? Do they come immediately at Christ's return? No, they do not. I'm not going to quote the entire 20th chapter of Revelation in which the Millennial Reign of Christ is detailed, but I will quote what happens at the end of said Reign or at the end of the 1,000 years or at the end of the day of the Lord:
Revelation chapter 20 verses 7 thru 11
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
At the conclusion of Christ's Millennial or 1,000 year Reign, Satan will be loosed, there will be one final rebellion and then comes the Great White Throne Judgment of Jesus Christ. Notice what happens when Christ sits upon said throne:
From whose face the earth and the heaven fled away.
In other words, there goes our present heaven and earth and Revelation chapter 21 then introduces us to the same new heavens and new earth that Peter wrote of. Again, the day of the Lord, prophetically speaking, is 1,000 years long whereas a literal day is but 24 hours in duration.
What year is it on the Hebrew calendar? It's the year 5775. If their calendar is correct and if God created the world in 6 days to show man that his appointed time to labor upon this earth was 6,000 years and that the 7th day Sabbath foreshadows the coming Millennial Reign of Christ, then the earth's clock is winding down.
This is how I see it.
B
Alright!! Thank you sir for proclaiming the truth! I like the way you wrote another version of Genesis for those who do not like the one that is written for us. Also, wouldn't it be extremely strange to say that throughout history, there were no Jews or Christians who believed we had evolved. And now, some liberal-modern Christians are trying to tell us that we have been interpreting Scripture wrong for like what...4000 years? This is crazy. If we would've misunderstood the creation week, He surely would've sent us a prophet to correct us and not an atheistic belief about the origins of life (I believe Darwin was inspired by the godless Greeks who also believed in evolution, more than 2,000 years ago?). God has used simple words to convey His point.
Nay it is not presumption, Genesis 1 says bluntly, the evening and the morning, one day. I take it according to as it is written. Nor is it inconsistent, for the theme of the 7 days is found throughout the Bible. It is presumptious to say that God does not mean what he says, but continue in your presumption it changes not one word of the Bible, nor does it change reality, but only proves the prophecies about the latter days all the more.
T
those aren't Peter's words -- they are from a psalm of Moses.
so it's in fact Moses equivocating a day or a few hours to a thousand years, in God's sight.
and in the Psalm, he's comparing it with the whole earthly life of a man - from birth to death.
in verse 5-6 of Psalm 90, he speaks of grass as though it is born in the morning and dies the very same evening -- now in reality, in human terms, grasses live for a few weeks, not just one 24-hour period.
this is the same Moses who wrote down the Genesis account, and he's using "day" and "morning" and "evening" in an obviously allegorical way. seems to me that this ought to be reason not to be so dogmatic about the creation of the universe ((which we were definitely not around to witness, holding stopwatches)) to the point that we are arguing about it vehemently with each other and forgetting completely to glorify God in any way.
also in Moses' psalm, he prays that the Lord should 'teach us to number our days' -- they are short. i don't want to waste them being divisive with my family -- i would much rather use them reconciling each other
so it's in fact Moses equivocating a day or a few hours to a thousand years, in God's sight.
and in the Psalm, he's comparing it with the whole earthly life of a man - from birth to death.
in verse 5-6 of Psalm 90, he speaks of grass as though it is born in the morning and dies the very same evening -- now in reality, in human terms, grasses live for a few weeks, not just one 24-hour period.
this is the same Moses who wrote down the Genesis account, and he's using "day" and "morning" and "evening" in an obviously allegorical way. seems to me that this ought to be reason not to be so dogmatic about the creation of the universe ((which we were definitely not around to witness, holding stopwatches)) to the point that we are arguing about it vehemently with each other and forgetting completely to glorify God in any way.
also in Moses' psalm, he prays that the Lord should 'teach us to number our days' -- they are short. i don't want to waste them being divisive with my family -- i would much rather use them reconciling each other
G
There are things to suggest this Gap. And I am reading the bible.
Now you should be convinced that I am right, right?
Maybe have a conversation about this?
New American Standard Bible
The earth was(hayah) formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
Strong's Concordance
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hayah
Phonetic Spelling: (haw-yaw)
Short Definition: come
Do you think there is a possibility that Hayah could be "became" instead of "was?"
2 other points we could converse about is the "darkness"....... it is the same word used in Exodus for darkness that was created.
And Jesus Christ created the heavens and the Earth. The Holy Spirit in this verse could sure be used as restoration, He regenerates.
Now you should be convinced that I am right, right?
Maybe have a conversation about this?
New American Standard Bible
The earth was(hayah) formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
Strong's Concordance
hayah: to fall out, come to pass, become, be
Original Word: הָיָהPart of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hayah
Phonetic Spelling: (haw-yaw)
Short Definition: come
Do you think there is a possibility that Hayah could be "became" instead of "was?"
2 other points we could converse about is the "darkness"....... it is the same word used in Exodus for darkness that was created.
And Jesus Christ created the heavens and the Earth. The Holy Spirit in this verse could sure be used as restoration, He regenerates.
There are things to suggest this Gap. And I am reading the bible.
Now you should be convinced that I am right, right?
Maybe have a conversation about this?
New American Standard Bible
The earth was(hayah) formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
Strong's Concordance
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hayah
Phonetic Spelling: (haw-yaw)
Short Definition: come
Do you think there is a possibility that Hayah could be "became" instead of "was?"
2 other points we could converse about is the "darkness"....... it is the same word used in Exodus for darkness that was created.
And Jesus Christ created the heavens and the Earth. The Holy Spirit in this verse could sure be used as restoration, He regenerates.
Now you should be convinced that I am right, right?
Maybe have a conversation about this?
New American Standard Bible
The earth was(hayah) formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
Strong's Concordance
hayah: to fall out, come to pass, become, be
Original Word: הָיָהPart of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hayah
Phonetic Spelling: (haw-yaw)
Short Definition: come
Do you think there is a possibility that Hayah could be "became" instead of "was?"
2 other points we could converse about is the "darkness"....... it is the same word used in Exodus for darkness that was created.
And Jesus Christ created the heavens and the Earth. The Holy Spirit in this verse could sure be used as restoration, He regenerates.
So no matter which rendering you use it still shows there is no gap by reason that the second verse is the direct event of what happened next which is that the earth became formless and void, or the earth was formless and void, or it came to pass that the earth was formless and void, or it be that the earth was formless and void, or it was to fall out that the earth was formless and void.
And of course the story doesn't end there.