Creation, The Flood, And Millions Of Years

[Tintin]

'Waw' is the name of the Hebrew letter which is used as a conjunction. It can mean 'and', 'but', 'now', 'then' and several other things depending upon the context and type of waw involved. It occurs at the beginning of Genesis 1:2 and is translated in the KJV, "And [waw] the earth was without form, and void." Gappists use this translation to support the gap theory. However, the most straightforward reading of the text sees verse 1 of Genesis 1 as the principal subject-and-verb clause, with verse 2 containing three 'circumstantial clauses'. Hebrew grammarian Gsenius called this a "waw explicativum", and compares it to the English ' to wit'. Other terms are called waw copulative or waw disjunctive or explanatory waw. The Septuagint translators, c.250BC, saw it this way, because they rendered this passage, "he de ge en aoratos kai akataskeuastos," and de is often used as a transitional particle.

A waw-consecutive, as in the next verse, describes the next sequence of a historical narrative; it is just not there in v.2.

Such a waw-disjunctive is easy to tell from the Hebrew, because it is formed by waw followed by a non-verb. It introduces a parenthetic statement; that is, it's alerting the reader to put the passage following in brackets, as it were-a descriptive phrase about the previous noun.

From The Genesis Account by Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, pp. 110-111

 

[Tintin]

Although the gap theory originated out of a desire to accommodate the millions of years of supposed geological time, only the most native would think it does. Uniformitarian geologists reject the idea of any global Flood, whether the biblical Noah's Flood, or the imagined 'Lucifer's Flood' of the gap theory. So students from Christian homes went to secular universities and found that the 'gap theory' made theory made no sense with secular geology anyway, so they saw it for what it is-an ill-informed attempt to fit the Bible into secular science. And since their Christian leaders had effectively made 'science' authoritative over Scripture in creation issues, these students took the next logical step: since 'science' says that dead men don't rise, virgins don't conceive, adultery and homosexual behaviour is natural, then...

It postulates the fall of Satan in a world God declared "very good" in Genesis 1:31. Also, the versions that place the fossil record in this gap are placing death and disease before Adam's sin.

It contradicts the Sabbath command of Exodus 20:8-11, which is based on the creation of the 'heavens, earth, sea and everything in them' in six ordinary days. As explained earlier, 'heavens and earth' is a merism meaning 'universe', and the Exodus passage spells the totality out even further.

From The Genesis Account by Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, p.110

 

[Gr8grace]

Although the gap theory originated out of a desire to accommodate the millions of years of supposed geological time, only the most native would think it does. Uniformitarian geologists reject the idea of any global Flood, whether the biblical Noah's Flood, or the imagined 'Lucifer's Flood' of the gap theory. So students from Christian homes went to secular universities and found that the 'gap theory' made theory made no sense with secular geology anyway, so they saw it for what it is-an ill-informed attempt to fit the Bible into secular science. And since their Christian leaders had effectively made 'science' authoritative over Scripture in creation issues, these students took the next logical step: since 'science' says that dead men don't rise, virgins don't conceive, adultery and homosexual behaviour is natural, then...

It postulates the fall of Satan in a world God declared "very good" in Genesis 1:31. Also, the versions that place the fossil record in this gap are placing death and disease before Adam's sin.

It contradicts the Sabbath command of Exodus 20:8-11, which is based on the creation of the 'heavens, earth, sea and everything in them' in six ordinary days. As explained earlier, 'heavens and earth' is a merism meaning 'universe', and the Exodus passage spells the totality out even further.

From The Genesis Account by Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, p.110

Can I ask a favor tintin? Please stop quoting my posts and just saying "your wrong."

I know you have not said those exact words but you have never engaged in conversation, just a disagreement and no information why you disagree.

I wanted to have a conversation with you, thats it. I wasn't going to post a bunch of stuff that refutes what I THINK is your position. I wanted to offer my position and get to know your position.

I had no intention of just posting a bunch of stuff that refuted what I THOUGHT or PRESUMED to be your position.

 

[Tintin]

Can I ask a favor tintin? Please stop quoting my posts and just saying "your wrong."

I know you have not said those exact words but you have never engaged in conversation, just a disagreement and no information why you disagree.

I wanted to have a conversation with you, thats it. I wasn't going to post a bunch of stuff that refutes what I THINK is your position. I wanted to offer my position and get to know your position.

I had no intention of just posting a bunch of stuff that refuted what I THOUGHT or PRESUMED to be your position.

I have plenty more, but sure.

Explain why there was death and disease before Adam and Eve fell.
Explain why the Gap theory and its sibling beliefs only arose around the time uniformitarianism and evolution came into the mainstream. Before that, the Church believed what Genesis said. The most crazy beliefs from Church 'fathers' were that Creation was instantaneous or that each day represented a year. Long-ages didn't come into it at all.

 

[Tintin]

Can I ask a favor tintin? Please stop quoting my posts and just saying "your wrong."

I know you have not said those exact words but you have never engaged in conversation, just a disagreement and no information why you disagree.

I wanted to have a conversation with you, thats it. I wasn't going to post a bunch of stuff that refutes what I THINK is your position. I wanted to offer my position and get to know your position.

I had no intention of just posting a bunch of stuff that refuted what I THOUGHT or PRESUMED to be your position.

This is simply not true. Sure it's true of the last couple posts of mine, but certainly not for most of them.

 

[Dude653]

Population trends show that it would only take about 1 million years to produce more people to than planet could accommodate

 

[Gr8grace]

This is simply not true. Sure it's true of the last couple posts of mine, but certainly not for most of them.

I apologize, if I missed something Brother.

I like to discuss this issue. Thats it. I hold to the possibility that I am wrong. this should not be a point of contention for Brothers in Christ.

I don't want to give the wrong impression that this is an important doctrine for me. I like to hear others opinions on it, but I do have mine.

 

[Budman]

I was thinking about this today...

If the theory of evolution didn't exist, you wouldn't have a single Christian saying that the days in Genesis weren't actual days.

Without Darwin, no one would be attempting to cram millions of years into the Bible.

 

[Tintin]

I apologize, if I missed something Brother.

I like to discuss this issue. Thats it. I hold to the possibility that I am wrong. this should not be a point of contention for Brothers in Christ.

I don't want to give the wrong impression that this is an important doctrine for me. I like to hear others opinions on it, but I do have mine.

Thank you. I apologise for my tone. I'm very passionate about this topic, as you can see. I don't believe it's a salvation issue, but it certainly can be for many. They recognise the disconnect between what 'science' says and what the Bible teaches and many distrust the Bible, leading to a fall away from God. I ask you to look into this a little more. Try using keywords at these particular sites. God bless, brother.

Articles - creation.com

https://answersingenesis.org/answers/

 

[Budman]

But both Jewish and Christian (e.g. Augustine) expositors saw the yoms of Genesis 1 as periods of time long, long before Darwin. So that's at least two prophets? How many do you want?.

But then I don't think God is all that concerned about the issue. Its man who gets himself upset about trifles.

None proclaimed millions of years before the age of Darwin.

 

[Tintin]

I was thinking about this today...

If the theory of evolution didn't exist, you wouldn't have a single Christian saying that the days in Genesis weren't actual days.

Without Darwin, no one would be attempting to cram millions of years into the Bible.

Not quite. Uniformitarianism (long-ages) was the 'scientific' mechanism that was used to make the evolutionary process 'credible' in the eyes of the world.

 

[Bowman]

What has always irked me about old earth creationists is their belief that God didn't mean exactly what He said. That God, in fact, misled us via the creation story in Genesis.

I'm an OEC, and I take Genesis literally.

 

[Budman]

Not quite. Uniformitarianism (long-ages) was the 'scientific' mechanism that was used to make the evolutionary process 'credible' in the eyes of the world.

My point being that it wasn't Christians attempting to bulldoze millions of years into the Bible, it was the secular world who wanted to avoid the implications of the existence of God.

 

[Budman]

lol you make Scripture fit into your presuppositions.

there are prophets outside the Bible.

Since we have the Bible, why would we need any more prophets?

What more can they tell us that God's word doesn't?

 

[skylove7]

I believe in signs from Holy Spirit. ..but Bible says not even Angels in heaven know the date

 

[Budman]

I believe in signs from Holy Spirit. ..but Bible says not even Angels in heaven know the date

I don't know if you are referring to the Rapture or Christ's second coming, but either way, God already gave us the signs to look for in His word.

 

[Tintin]

None proclaimed millions of years before the age of Darwin.

Except the naturalist philosophers of ancient Greece. But they weren't followers of Christ, nor did they believe in God's Word (the part that was written at the time).

 

[Budman]

Except the naturalist philosophers of ancient Greece. But they weren't followers of Christ, nor did they believe in God's Word (the part that was written at the time).

Like I said, my friend, I'm speaking about Christians who attempt to stuff millions of years into Genesis.

 

[Tintin]

Like I said, my friend, I'm speaking about Christians who attempt to stuff millions of years into Genesis.

Yes, sorry, brother. I meant to put that in my earlier post, before you wrote your bit. God bless.

 

[kedge]

God revealed to us that He created the world and everything in it in six literal days.

That is an assumptive interpretation on your part, you have no absolute proof, but like all of us, we all have an opinion