Refute Against OSAS

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p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#61
Sep 4, 2013
30,657
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#61
Mitspa said:
No! that is surrendered to Gods will...not "free" will ...free will is you doing what you want to do....
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No, free will is CHOOSING to surrender to His will...........or not..........
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#62
Sep 4, 2013
30,657
6,852
113
#62
Mitspa said:
Free will describes disobedience to God...not obedience!
Obedience is found when we SURRENDER our will to the Cross of Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God at work in us to "will" and "act" according to Gods good pleasure.
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No, free will describes one CHOOSING to believe in Jesus Christ.............or not..........yes, the Spirit does work within us, but HE DOES NOT FORCE us to choose Him. Otherwise, what's the point?
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#63
#63
JesusLives said:
Free will is still choosing obedience......rather than disobedience......

We can be good or bad last time Blond checked....It is our choice...
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Exactly as even God Himself says He places before us eternal life and eternal death, and tells us to choose which one to accept...........Joshua 24:15
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#64
#64
p_rehbein said:
No, free will describes one CHOOSING to believe in Jesus Christ.............or not..........yes, the Spirit does work within us, but HE DOES NOT FORCE us to choose Him. Otherwise, what's the point?
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No...free will describes those who reject Christ...surrendered will describes those who receive and accept Christ.

Yes we surrender to Christ because He is greater than us and we "need" Him...that's not free will!
 
JesusLives

JesusLives

Senior Member
#65
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
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#65
Mitspa said:
No! that is surrendered to Gods will...not "free" will ...free will is you doing what you want to do....
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So God is forcing me to be good or am I being good because I love God and allow Him to have access to my life to work His good works in Me?????
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#66
#66
p_rehbein said:
No, free will is CHOOSING to surrender to His will...........or not..........
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That's surrendered will....not free will ...and just because someone has a choice ...don't mean they have "free-will" ...a child can choose what toy to play with..that don't mean they have "free-will" they still have to surrender to the will of their parents.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#67
#67
JesusLives said:
So God is forcing me to be good or am I being good because I love God and allow Him to have access to my life to work His good works in Me?????
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No your surrendering your "free-will" in obedience to His Will...this is not that hard to understand?
 
JesusLives

JesusLives

Senior Member
#68
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
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#68
PS.....Blond wants to be good.....so she prays please Holy Spirit enter my heart I want you here today..... God is not forcing me to be good but He is happy that I made this prayer to ask for Him to come and live in my heart to help me be good and work for and with Him today....

Blond can be very bad if she chooses to be....but today I'd rather have God living in my heart this is my choice and I choose God.....
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#69
#69
Mitspa said:
No...free will describes those who reject Christ...surrendered will describes those who receive and accept Christ.

Yes we surrender to Christ because He is greater than us and we "need" Him...that's not free will!
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That is free will to choose to surrender one's life to follow the Lord, because you could have chosen the other road instead that is broad and leads to distruction. Some are still following that road and don't even realize it as they continue in their instructing of others that they take away the doing part from a true faith in the Lord.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#70
#70
JesusLives said:
PS.....Blond wants to be good.....so she prays please Holy Spirit enter my heart I want you here today..... God is not forcing me to be good but He is happy that I made this prayer to ask for Him to come and live in my heart to help me be good and work for and with Him today....

Blond can be very bad if she chooses to be....but today I'd rather have God living in my heart this is my choice and I choose God.....
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Does blond want to do her will or Gods Will? Does blond obey God by doing what she wants or by doing what God wants?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#71
#71
KennethC said:
That is free will to choose to surrender one's life to follow the Lord, because you could have chosen the other road instead that is broad and leads to distruction. Some are still following that road and don't even realize it as they continue in their instructing of others that they take away the doing part from a true faith in the Lord.
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Read your own words....thats surrendered will! Not free-will....and you don't choose God...He chooses you and calls you according to His Own Will...not your will...you have to surrender to Him....."free-will" is a silly term and is unbiblical
 
JesusLives

JesusLives

Senior Member
#72
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
2,176
113
#72
Mitspa said:
Does blond want to do her will or Gods Will? Does blond obey God by doing what she wants or by doing what God wants?
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In this sin sick world Blond will always want to do what Blond wants to do....but when asking God into my heart then I freely allow God to work in my heart otherwise you have a bad Blond always at war with God..... But God helps Blond do what He wants her to do. With her permission to let God into her life.....God does not force His way in.....

He stands at the door and knocks....Blond has to choose to open her hearts door to let Him in.....
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#73
#73
Mitspa said:
Read your own words....thats surrendered will! Not free-will....and you don't choose God...He chooses you and calls you according to His Own Will...not your will...you have to surrender to Him....."free-will" is a silly term and is unbiblical
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He calls us by His word, and after hearing it and choosing trusting what it says faith is established.
Then in that faith you by love chose to obey to follow His teachings and commands, if you still did not have a choice then nobody who is a true believer could never sin again.

But the bible clearly says that we will stumble, which would be impossible if we have no free will !!!
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#74
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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#74
p_rehbein said:
John 3:16 is an example where "believe/believing/believeth" is a continuous/unending action. Goodness........look it up. Why would that even be up for debate?
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And why would hath passed from judgment into life be up for debate? Goodness, goodness.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#75
#75
JesusLives said:
In this sin sick world Blond will always want to do what Blond wants to do....but when asking God into my heart then I freely allow God to work in my heart otherwise you have a bad Blond always at war with God..... But God helps Blond do what He wants her to do. With her permission to let God into her life.....God does not force His way in.....

He stands at the door and knocks....Blond has to choose to open her hearts door to let Him in.....
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Ok ...what your describing is obedience by surrendering your own free-will to Gods Will....like I said the term "free-will" describes disobedience ...not obedience. Its not a biblical term and its not a term that benefits believers in my view.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#76
#76
KennethC said:
He calls us by His word, and after hearing it and choosing trusting what it says faith is established.
Then in that faith you by love chose to obey to follow His teachings and commands, if you still did not have a choice then nobody who is a true believer could never sin again.

But the bible clearly says that we will stumble, which would be impossible if we have no free will !!!
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You choose to surrender your will to Gods Will and get OUT OF free-will! And again if an army chooses to surrender to a greater army...that's not "free-will"
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#77
#77
crossnote said:
And why would hath passed from judgment into life be up for debate? Goodness, goodness.
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Because like Apostle Paul said you have chosen to stop obeying the flesh and chose to obey the fruits of the Holy Spirit....

By doing that those fruits will lead you in Christ unto salvation, and Apostle Peter also confirms this in 2 Peter 1:5-11 in doing those things an entrance into the eternal kingdom will be provided to us (eternal life).
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#78
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
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#78
p_rehbein said:
So, I guess I'm suppose to "believe" that I can say to Jesus:

"Hey, Jesus, You know that a long time ago, I believed in You, put my faith and trust in You, and accepted You as Lord and Savior, but, shoot, last week I prayed for something and You didn't give it to me. So, I have to tell You, I don't believe in You any more. Faith and trust? Nah, they're gone too."

----------and Jesus will say ---------

"That's ok p.............ONE TIME you believed in Me, so your good, no worries!"

Seriously...............????
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The language of a religious person who's heart had not been regenerate. Only a creed to plea.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#79
#79
Mitspa said:
You choose to surrender your will to Gods Will and get OUT OF free-will! And again if an army chooses to surrender to a greater army...that's not "free-will"
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So believers do not stumble or sin ever again ????


The bible says they do which means they would have to chose themselves to give back into their lusts, which means free will is not taken away.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#80
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
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#80
p_rehbein said:
It is SURELY NOT how I think, but IT IS what others are trying to sell here..............and I ain't buying it.

But I don't expect any of you to comment on it, because it flies directly in the face of a "one time belief" of OSAS.

Way I see it.................Free will ENDS where OSAS begins.............pretty much a "latter day Calvinist" ideology in my opinion.
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All you revealed was a straw elephant :)
 
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