Catholic Heresy (for the record)

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Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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We Catholics agree, Catholics believe that worship is due to God and God alone. Catholics do, however, honor and venerate Mary. In other words, we honor our Blessed Mother with great reverence and devotion because she is the Mother of God.
Mary is not the mother of God, the first Person of the Trinity. She was the mother of Jesus, the second Person of the Trinity. Shouldn't she rather then be called the mother of Jesus? Is she also called the mother of the Holy Spirit? Why not?

Beleive it or not, but we Catholics feel the same. The only thing we give to Mary is honor and veneration.
Catholics say Mary needed to be sinless so that Jesus could be sinless. Aside from the fact that that just seems so horribly wrong on many levels, wouldn't it also mean that to rationalize Mary's sinlessness in the same fashion, all of Mary's matriarchal ancestors would have also needed to be sinless so that Mary could have been sinless? Do Catholics address this anywhere?
 
Nov 14, 2012
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Mary is not the mother of God, the first Person of the Trinity. She was the mother of Jesus, the second Person of the Trinity. Shouldn't she rather then be called the mother of Jesus? Is she also called the mother of the Holy Spirit? Why not?

Catholics say Mary needed to be sinless so that Jesus could be sinless. Aside from the fact that that just seems so horribly wrong on many levels, wouldn't it also mean that to rationalize Mary's sinlessness in the same fashion, all of Mary's matriarchal ancestors would have also needed to be sinless so that Mary could have been sinless? Do Catholics address this anywhere?
Why is it so hard to believe that God, who can do anything, kept Mary sinless? Why are you limiting God and putting conditions on what he can and can't do?
 
Jul 4, 2015
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Why are YOU limiting what God can do by insisting it was by Mary being without sin that keep Jesus free from sin mwc68?

Why is it so hard to believe that God keep Jesus free from sin while Mary was a sinner mwc68?

Actually its YOU mwc68 who have put limits on God by insisting He had to do it your way!

Also Jesus Himself put Mary way below those who followed Him!

Luke 8:19-21
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And it was told Him by some, who said, "Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You."
[SUP]21 [/SUP] But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."

We True Christians are His Mother and Brothers because we follow Him. Mary meant nothing to Jesus. It was those who followed Him that meant the most to Jesus. Could it be Mary never accepted Jesus as her Lord and Savior as to why He said this? Remember not every one who is called is chosen by God. Mary may be one of those who did not follow Jesus.
 
Nov 14, 2012
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Why are YOU limiting what God can do by insisting it was by Mary being without sin that keep Jesus free from sin mwc68?

Why is it so hard to believe that God keep Jesus free from sin while Mary was a sinner mwc68?

Actually its YOU mwc68 who have put limits on God by insisting He had to do it your way!

Also Jesus Himself put Mary way below those who followed Him!

Luke 8:19-21
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And it was told Him by some, who said, "Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You."
[SUP]21 [/SUP] But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."

We True Christians are His Mother and Brothers because we follow Him. Mary meant nothing to Jesus. It was those who followed Him that meant the most to Jesus. Could it be Mary never accepted Jesus as her Lord and Savior as to why He said this? Remember not every one who is called is chosen by God. Mary may be one of those who did not follow Jesus.
Those are Jesus cousins, not brothers and sisters. They are the children of Mary mother of Joses who along with these relatives watched the crucifixion from afar where as Mary mother of Jesus was at the foot of the cross.
 
Nov 14, 2012
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Why are YOU limiting what God can do by insisting it was by Mary being without sin that keep Jesus free from sin mwc68?

Why is it so hard to believe that God keep Jesus free from sin while Mary was a sinner mwc68?

Actually its YOU mwc68 who have put limits on God by insisting He had to do it your way!

Also Jesus Himself put Mary way below those who followed Him!

Luke 8:19-21
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And it was told Him by some, who said, "Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You."
[SUP]21 [/SUP] But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."

We True Christians are His Mother and Brothers because we follow Him. Mary meant nothing to Jesus. It was those who followed Him that meant the most to Jesus. Could it be Mary never accepted Jesus as her Lord and Savior as to why He said this? Remember not every one who is called is chosen by God. Mary may be one of those who did not follow Jesus.
Mary didn't follow Jesus? I know you hate her, but really? Mary didn't follow Jesus? Ok, you are out there in the Twilight Zone
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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I'll even do one better than that, how about we focus on the whole of "Mary's Song." (Luke 1:46-55)

Those who hunger for the Lord will not be disappointed. The Lord himself will fill them with the fruits of his peace, joy, and righteousness. We see God's boundless love manifested in the promise of a Redeemer. As the events leading to the birth of our Saviour unfold we see all the prophecies, promises and prayers of the Old Testament being fulfilled because "God so loved the world that he gave us his only Son". Mary accepted her mission with uncompromising faith and obedience. She acted with unwavering trust and faith because she believed that God would fulfill the word he had spoken. Her great hymn of praise echoes the song of Hannah (see 1 Samuel 2:1-10) and proclaims the favor of the Lord: God exalts the lowly and he fills the hungry.

So, let me ask you. When was the last time at your church, did your pastor asked you, or his/her congregation to focus and meditate on Luke 1:48, or all of Mary's Song for that matter? How about at your bible study, when was the last time Luke 1:48 was the topic?



Pax Christi


"from henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." --- Luke 1:48.
We focus on Christ who humbled Himself and died on the cross of Calvary to make complete atonement for the sins of man the creation.

The OT says what is man that Thou are mindful of him? Psalms 8:4 and repeated in Hebrews 2. We including Mary are as dust upon the earth. Christ is God in the flesh. Mary testified to Christ as her Savior.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Nov 14, 2012
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I'll even do one better than that, how about we focus on the whole of "Mary's Song." (Luke 1:46-55)

Those who hunger for the Lord will not be disappointed. The Lord himself will fill them with the fruits of his peace, joy, and righteousness. We see God's boundless love manifested in the promise of a Redeemer. As the events leading to the birth of our Saviour unfold we see all the prophecies, promises and prayers of the Old Testament being fulfilled because "God so loved the world that he gave us his only Son". Mary accepted her mission with uncompromising faith and obedience. She acted with unwavering trust and faith because she believed that God would fulfill the word he had spoken. Her great hymn of praise echoes the song of Hannah (see 1 Samuel 2:1-10) and proclaims the favor of the Lord: God exalts the lowly and he fills the hungry.

So, let me ask you. When was the last time at your church, did your pastor asked you, or his/her congregation to focus and meditate on Luke 1:48, or all of Mary's Song for that matter? How about at your bible study, when was the last time Luke 1:48 was the topic?



Pax Christi


"from henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." --- Luke 1:48.
They are extremely hostile to The Blessed Mary here and imo, it is the most Unchristian display I have ever seen. To continually disrespect the mother of our Lord Jesus Christ is a shame. I hope they have a good explanation when he asks them about their attitude towards his mother. I know how I would treat someone. who constantly puts my mother down and encourages others to do the same
 
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I wonder what Mary is going to say to you mwc68 for spreading lies about her? I wonder what God will do to you mwc68 for making Mary your God?

I am not hostile to Mary who gave birth to Jesus. I am hostile to the Demon in the Catholic Church claiming to be Mary. In fact Mary said that she needed Jesus as her Savior. If Mary was without sin then Mary would not need a Savior! In fact Mary herself could have died for our sins if she was without sin!

The Word used for brothers in the Greek mean brothers. Its when you Catholics use Aramaic that cousins and brothers are the same word. Just like when you Catholics use the Aramaic word for rock that is different from the Greek word for rock.

I know the schemes of the Catholic Church and how they try to change the meanings of words by using Aramaic words to deceive people. None of the Gospels were written in Aramaic, they were all written in the Greek language, not Aramaic.

In fact did you know mwc68 the Catholic Church HAS their own Bible that was translated from the Aramaic language? In this Bible they have added the Doctrines of Mary made up by the Catholic Church in the 1800's and later. But, they are being stopped from printing it by the Holy Spirit. The minute we True Christians are taken up in the air, they will publish this Bible.

How do i know this you ask? I still do talk with people very high up in the Catholic Church and i listen to what they say.
 
Nov 14, 2012
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I wonder what Mary is going to say to you mwc68 for spreading lies about her? I wonder what God will do to you mwc68 for making Mary your God?

I am not hostile to Mary who gave birth to Jesus. I am hostile to the Demon in the Catholic Church claiming to be Mary. In fact Mary said that she needed Jesus as her Savior. If Mary was without sin then Mary would not need a Savior! In fact Mary herself could have died for our sins if she was without sin!

The Word used for brothers in the Greek mean brothers. Its when you Catholics use Aramaic that cousins and brothers are the same word. Just like when you Catholics use the Aramaic word for rock that is different from the Greek word for rock.

I know the schemes of the Catholic Church and how they try to change the meanings of words by using Aramaic words to deceive people. None of the Gospels were written in Aramaic, they were all written in the Greek language, not Aramaic.

In fact did you know mwc68 the Catholic Church HAS their own Bible that was translated from the Aramaic language? In this Bible they have added the Doctrines of Mary made up by the Catholic Church in the 1800's and later. But, they are being stopped from printing it by the Holy Spirit. The minute we True Christians are taken up in the air, they will publish this Bible.

How do i know this you ask? I still do talk with people very high up in the Catholic Church and i listen to what they say.
I must have missed the email. Who are these people you know? Anonymous sources? Lol. :)
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Okay, I think I know what you mean now. To try and make it more simplified for you, lets look at what Papal Infallibility is not.

1. Infallibility does not mean that a pope is incapable of sin: --All popes are human and therefore sinners.

2. Infallibility does not mean that the pope is inspired: ---- Papal infallibility does not involve any special revelation from God. A pope learns about his faith in the same way that anyone else does he studies.
3.Infallibility cannot be used to change existing doctrines or proclaim new ones: ---- It can only be used to confirm or clarify what has always been taught. The teachings of Christ cannot change. As the Scripture says, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever" (Hebrews 13:8).

4.
Infallibility does not mean that a pope cannot err when he speaks as a private teacher: ---As a man he is fallible and capable of error.

5. Infallibility does not guarantee that a pope will officially teach anything: However, when he does teach he is protected. If he decides to teach the truth, the Holy Spirit allows it. If he decides to teach error, either knowingly or unknowingly, the Holy Spirit will stop him.
Infallibility is not something that endows a pope with divine powers, but rather it is a gift of the Holy Spirit that protects the Church from the human frailties of a pope.

Would you agree all Christians believe that God used men infallibly in writing Scripture? Why then is it so hard to believe that He would work through men to protect it from corruption? Surely such a protection was implied when Jesus said to His disciples, "He who hears you hears me" (Luke 10:16).

Keep in mind Jack, three conditions must be met in order for a pronouncement to be considered infallible:
1. The pope must speak ex cathedra (from the Chair of Peter) in his official capacity.
2. The decision must be binding on the whole Church.
3. It must be on a matter of faith or morals.

The first two conditions can be reasonably deduced from Matthew 16:19: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." The acts of binding and loosing in this context would by necessity be something more than casual remarks. The previous verse begins with Jesus saying, "You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church" (16:18). Thus the acts of binding or loosing would have to be official and meant for the whole Church.


The third condition stems from the obvious fact that Christian teaching is primarily a matter of faith and morals. Christianity's main objectives have always been getting people to heaven (faith) and teaching them how to live here on earth (morals).


Infallibility is also extended to the college of bishops when they, as a body, teach something in union with the pope. Collegial authority is usually exercised in an ecumenical council just as it was at the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15:1-29).
Upon leaving the earth Jesus' final command to His apostles was to make disciples of all nations, "teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age" (Matthew 28:20). Are we to believe that Jesus left us no means of knowing exactly what He commanded? That would make His parting statement nonsense. The Catholic Church believes the Bible when it teaches that:
1. Jesus requires that we obey all that He commanded (Matthew 28:20).
2. Jesus gives us the grace to obey all that He commanded (Philippians 4:13).
3. Jesus provides us a means of knowing what He commanded (Matthew 16:15-19).

Jack123, even the early Christian writers bear witness to the Church's infallibility. Cyprian declares: "If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4, 251 AD). Irenaeus writes: "Where the charismata of the Lord are given, there must we seek the truth, with those to whom belongs the ecclesiastical succession from the Apostles, and the unadulterated and incorruptible word. It is they who …are the guardians of our faith…and securely expound the Scriptures to us" (Against Heresies 4:26:5, 180-199 AD).


Ironically Jack 123, many individuals who oppose the doctrine of papal infallibility claim to receive special revelations from God. Most believe that they can privately interpret Scripture in direct violation of 2 Peter 1:20. They characterize the doctrine of papal infallibility as arrogant, while claiming for themselves authority that goes far beyond it. And what is the fruit of their claims? Thousands of denominations all claiming the Bible as their authority and yet all disagreeing on what it teaches. To make matters worse, many of their teachings change from time to time. Those who object to the doctrine of papal infallibility are the greatest proof of its need.
An honest examination of the evidence can only lead to one conclusion: That Jesus Christ established an infallible Church. Scripture teaches it, logic demands it, and history confirms it.




Since it is getting late Jack 123, I will address these other two issues at a later date.


Pax Christi


"from henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." Luke 1:48
after all, let me ask you 3 questions.

1. Keep in mind Jack, three conditions must be met in order for a pronouncement to be considered infallible:
1. The pope must speak ex cathedra (from the Chair of Peter) in his official capacity.
2. The decision must be binding on the whole Church.
3. It must be on a matter of faith or morals.

I am not quite understand on 2

2. Is the teaching no salvation outside mother church include/consider infallible?

3. Is the teaching Muslim in the plan of salvation consider infallible?
 
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People who would not want to be around you mwc68.

Some of us do know people through contacts which you will never know.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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after all, let me ask you 3 questions.

1. Keep in mind Jack, three conditions must be met in order for a pronouncement to be considered infallible:
1. The pope must speak ex cathedra (from the Chair of Peter) in his official capacity.
2. The decision must be binding on the whole Church.
3. It must be on a matter of faith or morals.

I am not quite understand on 2
Binding on the whole church means that to rightfully call yourself a Roman Catholic, you must agree with the ex cathedra dogmas, both of which concern Mary.

However, papal infallibility does not have only to do with ex cathedra proclamations. Infallibility also belongs to the body of bishops as a whole, when, in doctrinal unity with the pope, they solemnly teach a doctrine as true.

Vatican II explained the doctrine of infallibility as follows: "Although the individual bishops do not enjoy the prerogative of infallibility, they can nevertheless proclaim Christ’s doctrine infallibly. This is so, even when they are dispersed around the world, provided that while maintaining the bond of unity among themselves and with Peter’s successor, and while teaching authentically on a matter of faith or morals, they concur in a single viewpoint as the one which must be held conclusively. This authority is even more clearly verified when, gathered together in an ecumenical council, they are teachers and judges of faith and morals for the universal Church. Their definitions must then be adhered to with the submission of faith" (Lumen Gentium 25).

 

valiant

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Mar 22, 2015
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Why is it so hard to believe that God, who can do anything, kept Mary sinless? Why are you limiting God and putting conditions on what he can and can't do?
why is it so hard to believe that God Who can do anything brought Jesus forth sinless from the womb of sinful Mary? Why are you limiting God and putting conditions on what He can and can't do?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Why is it so hard to believe that God, who can do anything, kept Mary sinless? Why are you limiting God and putting conditions on what he can and can't do?
Why is it so hard to believe that Mary did not need to be sinless in order for Jesus Christ our LORD to be sinless? The Roman Catholic Church has put conditions on Jesus and attributed things to Mary that are nowhere even hinted at in Scripture. Why do you not answer my questions?
 
Jul 4, 2015
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Its interesting that if you disagree on what the Popes say or what the Catholic Church says you can be excommunicated from the Catholic Church, which means then is you will never be allowed into Heaven because the Catholic Church has declared only those who are members of the Catholic Church can enter into Heaven.

Its a catch 22 to be in the Catholic Church. You can be a member of the Catholic Church as long as you check in you brains when you become a member of this Church.

The only person who was infallibly is God! Not the Popes of the Catholic Church.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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They are extremely hostile to The Blessed Mary here and imo, it is the most Unchristian display I have ever seen. To continually disrespect the mother of our Lord Jesus Christ is a shame. I hope they have a good explanation when he asks them about their attitude towards his mother. I know how I would treat someone. who constantly puts my mother down and encourages others to do the same
Jesus never referred to Mary as His mother. Thank you for not calling Mary the mother of God here :)
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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They are extremely hostile to The Blessed Mary here and imo, it is the most Unchristian display I have ever seen. To continually disrespect the mother of our Lord Jesus Christ is a shame. I hope they have a good explanation when he asks them about their attitude towards his mother. I know how I would treat someone. who constantly puts my mother down and encourages others to do the same
But Mary is not the mother of the LORD Jesus Christ in heaven. She was given temporary motherhood while He was on earth. This is one of the many places where you Roman Catholics have twisted the truth. You have tried to glorify someone who should not have been glorified more than others, and turned her into a blasphemous figure. Mary is on a par with all other Christians. No more and no less.
 

tourist

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Mar 13, 2014
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But Mary is not the mother of the LORD Jesus Christ in heaven. She was given temporary motherhood while He was on earth. This is one of the many places where you Roman Catholics have twisted the truth. You have tried to glorify someone who should not have been glorified more than others, and turned her into a blasphemous figure. Mary is on a par with all other Christians. No more and no less.
Mary carried Jesus in her womb for 9 months. She is, in fact, his mother. Are there any mothers in heaven at all? If not, their status of motherhood was just a temporary situation.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you." "Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."