Is there a break in Daniel's 70 weeks? (Daniel 9:26)

[valiant]

Valiant said - the 'covenant', which in Daniel is always God's covenant

To the contrary
'he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week; and in the middle of the week he will cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease and will replace...with abominations'

Yes either God, or the Messiah, or the people of the Messiah, will CONFIRM covenant with many for one seven (by spreading the good news of God's kingly rule). And He will in the middle of the week cause the offerings and sacrifices to cease, either by the death of the Messiah or by the destruction of Jerusalem. Take your choice..

'And profane the sanctuary, establishing the distress and removing the daily sacrifice; and they will set up the abomination that desolates' 11:31.
'the vision concerning the daily sacrifice and the transgression that desolates apply, so that the sanctuary and the host are trampled down' 8:13.
'From the time that the daily sacrifice is removed and the abomination that desolates is set up...' 12:11.

That all happened under Antiochus Epiphanes. It may not be important to you, but it was to Daniel and ancient Israel.

'When you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should Not...' Mark 13:14.
'When you see The abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel...standing in the holy place' Mt 24:15.

As Luke 21 makes clear this referred to the holy city being surrounded by an army parading their idolatrous symbols in 70 AD. They were doing again what Antiochus had done.

'our Lord Jesus Christ...will not come unless...the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or an object of worship, so that he sits in the temple of God, setting himself forth, saying that he is God' 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4.

And this happened not long after Paul wrote the words when Caligula sat himself in many temples of God proclaiming himself to be god.

'Commanding those who dwell on the earth to make an image of the beast, who had the stroke of the sword and revived. And power was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast that the image of the beast might even speak and cause whoever would not worship the image of the beast to be killed' Revelation 13:14-15.

This again has in mind Caligula who was smitten and had a remarkable recovery. Many images were set up to him and the priests use conjuring and voice throwing to deceive the people.

'And another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand...' 14:9.

this was a warning against emperor worship, and against any subsequent idolatry.

'I saw as it were a glassy sea mingled with fire and those who come away victorious from the beast and from his image and from the number of his name...' 15:2.

John was initially warning against emperor worship. but the thought carried forward in respect of any form of idolatry.

'The souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and of those who had not worshipped the beast nor his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years' 20:4.

These SOULS were the souls of those who died in Christ and whose souls went to live and reign with Him in Heaven

Do I understand you accurately?
Christ came, then covenanted in the Upper Room, then confirmed His covenant by coming? The first time?
(Must be, because neither you nor EJ believes Christ will come to earth a second time.)

Christ came and renewed God's covenant with the Jews, but most rejected it. That covenant was confirmed in the Upper Room and sealed by the cross. It has been carried forward through the centuries as men and women have responded to the covenant as we await His second coming.

 

[KennethC]

There is no since in debating with people if they continue to think the A.O.D. is the surrounding of Israel by armies, or the destruction of the city and the temple.

For no scripture in the bible says this about the A.O.D., as it shows in a few places that this event is when the temple is defiled by the placing of or abomination done in the holy of holies in the temple. This did not happen in 70 AD !!!

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

There is no since in debating with people if they continue to think the A.O.D. is the surrounding of Israel by armies, or the destruction of the city and the temple.

For no scripture in the bible says this about the A.O.D., as it shows in a few places that this event is when the temple is defiled by the placing of or abomination done in the holy of holies in the temple. This did not happen in 70 AD !!!

I already showed you by Jesus' own words to his disciples in the 3 gospel accounts what Temple was to be destroyed(the one they were looking at with their own eyes HELLO!) to fulfill that prophecy but you reject the words of the Lord Ken. How stiff necked, hardheaded and rebellious can you be to the words of the Lord man? Good grief!

 

[KennethC]

I already showed you by Jesus' own words to his disciples in the 3 gospel accounts what Temple was to be destroyed(the one they were looking at with their own eyes HELLO!) to fulfill that prophecy but you reject the words of the Lord Ken. How stiff necked, hardheaded and rebellious can you be to the words of the Lord man? Good grief!

That is not the A.O.D. though, so your response is mute because the destruction of the temple is not the abomination that causes desolation.

Lord Jesus said to refer back to Daniel, and Daniel shows that it is when the temple is entered and an abomination is set up inside of it. That did not happen in 70 AD. as no abomination was set up then, and Titus even ordered his soldiers not to destroy the temple but they disobeyed and destroyed it any way.

70 AD did not fulfill the A.O.D. event because it is not referring to the destruction of the temple, but the defiling of it by the setting of an idol inside of it. Notice how Revelation 13:14 says the same thing, that the false prophet sets up an image of the beast and causes all to worship it................That is the A.O.D. !!!

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

That is not the A.O.D. though, so your response is mute because the destruction of the temple is not the abomination that causes desolation.

Lord Jesus said to refer back to Daniel, and Daniel shows that it is when the temple is entered and an abomination is set up inside of it. That did not happen in 70 AD. as no abomination was set up then, and Titus even ordered his soldiers not to destroy the temple but they disobeyed and destroyed it any way.

70 AD did not fulfill the A.O.D. event because it is not referring to the destruction of the temple, but the defiling of it by the setting of an idol inside of it. Notice how Revelation 13:14 says the same thing, that the false prophet sets up an image of the beast and causes all to worship it................That is the A.O.D. !!!

Well if you want to follow the words of men like Wally over what the Lord Jesus actually said about it's fulfillment then you go right on with your stiff necked hard headed self. But you can't say I didn't try to warn you.

 

[KennethC]

Well if you want to follow the words of men like Wally over what the Lord Jesus actually said about it's fulfillment then you go right on with your stiff necked hard headed self. But you can't say I didn't try to warn you.

I just showed you from the bible that the A.O.D. is the defilement of the temple, not the destruction of it, and it is you that continues to reject it.

I will be expecting an apology when the temple gets rebuilt and the Jews return to animal sacrificing as the scripture in the bible say they will.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I just showed you from the bible that the A.O.D. is the defilement of the temple, not the destruction of it, and it is you that continues to reject it.

I will be expecting an apology when the temple gets rebuilt and the Jews return to animal sacrificing as the scripture in the bible say they will.

LOL If a temple does get built it means absolutely nothing because the prophecy of the AOD has been fulfilled per Jesus testimony. But let the blind lead the blind.

 

[KennethC]

LOL If a temple does get built it means absolutely nothing because the prophecy of the AOD has been fulfilled per Jesus testimony. But let the blind lead the blind.

When did Titus set foot in the temple and claim to be God ????

He didn't as he didn't even set foot in Jerusalem when the city and temple was destroyed, as that was not even his orders as he did not want the temple destroyed. Since the temple was destroyed in 70 AD that means nobody else was able to stand in it and cause the abomination of desolation from then tell now either. So unfulfilled !!!

 

[tourist]

That is not the A.O.D. though, so your response is mute because the destruction of the temple is not the abomination that causes desolation.

Lord Jesus said to refer back to Daniel, and Daniel shows that it is when the temple is entered and an abomination is set up inside of it. That did not happen in 70 AD. as no abomination was set up then, and Titus even ordered his soldiers not to destroy the temple but they disobeyed and destroyed it any way.

70 AD did not fulfill the A.O.D. event because it is not referring to the destruction of the temple, but the defiling of it by the setting of an idol inside of it. Notice how Revelation 13:14 says the same thing, that the false prophet sets up an image of the beast and causes all to worship it................That is the A.O.D. !!!

I agree with you. The temple in Jerusalem must be rebuilt for Rev 13:14 to be fulfilled. It has to be built on the same spot as the Dome of Rock is situated. With modern pre-fab building techniques it can be built in a matter of months.

 

[KennethC]

I agree with you. The temple in Jerusalem must be rebuilt for Rev 13:14 to be fulfilled. It has to be built on the same spot as the Dome of Rock is situated. With modern pre-fab building techniques it can be built in a matter of months.

Yes and one scripture from Jesus that seems to get overlooked to when the A.O.D. takes place is that Jesus says when this happens the Jews living in Judea are to flee to the mountains.

Jews are still living in Judea today which is mainly controlled by Palestinians.
Jesus tells these Jews to flee to the mountains because they will be the first one's killed if they stay were they are after the A.O.D. takes place.

 

[MarcR]

Whether you are a preterist that believes Daniel's 70th 'seven' (week of 7 years) was fulfilled in 70 AD or a futurist that believes Daniel's 70th week is yet to be fulfilled, you must place a break in Daniel 9:26, between the end of the 69th week in 33 AD (when Jesus Christ was cut off) and the beginning of the 70th.

If you do not accept a break, where do you place the beginning and end of Daniel's 70 weeks?

I believe that Luke 2:2 places the census decree in 6 B.C. and Jesus' birth in 5 B.C.; thus putting His death on the cross in 28 A.D. Going back 483 years brings to 455 B.C., which was the eleventh year of Artaxerxes Longimanus. This is consistent with Ezra Chapter 7. Ezra 7:18 does not specifically mention a command to build the wall; but does not preclude it. We know that when Nehemiah joined the work in the 20th year of Artaxerxes Longimanus (Neh 2:1), that the building of the wall was in progress already.

So then, seventy weeks are decreed Dan 9:24. The command to build the wall was given in 455 B.C. Jesus was born in 5B.C. Jesus was born in 5B.C., and was crucified ('cut off') in 28 A.D. (Dan 9:25)

The Seventieth week is reserved for 'Jacob's Trouble' (Jer 30:7) the Great tribulation (Rv 2:22, Rv 7:14).

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

When did Titus set foot in the temple and claim to be God ????

He didn't as he didn't even set foot in Jerusalem when the city and temple was destroyed, as that was not even his orders as he did not want the temple destroyed. Since the temple was destroyed in 70 AD that means nobody else was able to stand in it and cause the abomination of desolation from then tell now either. So unfulfilled !!!

You ignore scripture Ken, even Jesus' own words as to what Temple was to be destroyed fulfilling the prophecy.

Also it was the overspreading of abominations (all the abominations of the people) that brought on the desolations and destruction of Jerusalem and the temple mount, not just a single evil act.

Daniel 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Jesus declared Jerusalem desolate here...

Luke 13:34-35 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not![SUP]35 [/SUP]Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

 

[MarcR]

Come come now. That is not fair.
Daniel realized that Jeremiah's 'seventy years' (Jer 25:11-12; Dan 9:2) were fulfilled. For the desolation of Israel.......and for the reign of Babylon. But 'seventy sevens' were new to Daniel (9:24-27). 'Sevens' are not 'years.' (If you're convinced they are, then please share how? If you'd like. Is it 365 or 360 divided by 7, as a unit?)
Further, the sevens are apportioned to Daniel's people for restoring and rebuilding Jerusalem (first). Before desolation Again in
AD 70 (part of the big gap). (For that matter, it is very natural, historically, as well as Biblically, to foresee Jerusalem and its temple being constructed then devastated a third time. It was seemingly miraculous for Israel to reform in 1948, and to win Jerusalem in 1967. All that's 'left,' from country, to city............is temple again.)
Further, 'seventy sevens are apportioned for your people...to close the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make propitiation for iniquity, and to bring in the righteousness of the ages...' That.........has not happened with Daniel's people as a nation. As a nation, we know from other Scripture (also), that 'all Israel will be saved.' The seventy sevens have
one seven remaining to be completed......because God takes one more seven, to especially bring them to Him......as a nation.
Much like Joseph, through God's arrangement, returned to ruling over his own brothers AFTER having taken a Gentile wife and after such a long intermediate time.








This is yet another example of the silliness of Mr Young: The Jews came and destroyed the Jews in AD 70. Because the Messiah is the Desolator.








The error with this in regard to Dan 9:27 is 1) that 27 transpires not only long after the crucifixion, but after AD 70 as well.
And 2) that the Antichrist who in 9:27 disrupts the Jewish worship (similar to how in Revelation he disrupts All peoples' religions, by claiming and 'enforcing' that he is God) 'Causes' their sacrificing to cease. Antichrist does not cause any 'Need' for it to end

On the Jewish Lunar/Solar calendar, a normal year is 354 days a Leap year is 384 days. Leap years occur 7 times in a 19 year cycle; on the 3rd 6th,8th,11th,14th,17th, and 19th year of the cycle.

 

[KennethC]

I believe that Luke 2:2 places the census decree in 6 B.C. and Jesus' birth in 5 B.C.; thus putting His death on the cross in 28 A.D. Going back 483 years brings to 455 B.C., which was the eleventh year of Artaxerxes Longimanus. This is consistent with Ezra Chapter 7. Ezra 7:18 does not specifically mention a command to build the wall; but does not preclude it. We know that when Nehemiah joined the work in the 20th year of Artaxerxes Longimanus (Neh 2:1), that the building of the wall was in progress already.

So then, seventy weeks are decreed Dan 9:24. The command to build the wall was given in 455 B.C. Jesus was born in 5B.C. Jesus was born in 5B.C., and was crucified ('cut off') in 28 A.D. (Dan 9:25)

The Seventieth week is reserved for 'Jacob's Trouble' (Jer 30:7) the Great tribulation (Rv 2:22, Rv 7:14).

This is incorrect for one main reason and that is that the gospel book of Luke 3:1-2 says that John the baptist started his ministry in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar. That would place John starting his baptizing ministry in 29 AD., and Jesus could not have been crucified before then.

Then the gospels speak of the Passover and the day of which it took place on, and if we look a list from 29 AD to 36 AD we can narrow the field down to two dates by the scriptures;

Monday, April 18, A.D. 29
Friday, April 7, A.D. 30
Tuesday, March 27, A.D. 31
Monday, April 14, A.D. 32
Friday, April 3, A.D. 33
Wednesday, March 24, A.D. 34
Tuesday, April 12, A.D. 35
Saturday, March 31, A.D. 36

The bible also mentions three Passovers during Jesus ministry which would rule out the first possible date, and only leave the 33 AD as the only viable date.

 

[KennethC]

You ignore scripture Ken, even Jesus' own words as to what Temple was to be destroyed fulfilling the prophecy.

Also it was the overspreading of abominations (all the abominations of the people) that brought on the desolations and destruction of Jerusalem and the temple mount, not just a single evil act.

Daniel 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Jesus declared Jerusalem desolate here...

Luke 13:34-35 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not![SUP]35 [/SUP]Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

You are the one who is ignoring scriptures and I am done speaking to you because you continue to deny how Daniel showed the A.O.D. is the defiling of the temple not the destroying of it, and Jesus confirms this when He said you see it stand where it ought not be. In the temple defiling it with a pagan idol !!!

Once again when did Titus stand in the temple or place an abomination in the temple ????

He did not therefore it is not fulfilled.................................

 

[MarcR]

On the Jewish Lunar/Solar calendar, a normal year is 354 days a Leap year is 384 days. Leap years occur 7 times in a 19 year cycle; on the 3rd 6th,8th,11th,14th,17th, and 19th year of the cycle.

7*384=2688; 12*354=4248; 4248+2688=6936
19*365=6935 +4=6939


Three times in the 19 year Bul, is lengthened to 30 days.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You are the one who is ignoring scriptures and I am done speaking to you because you continue to deny how Daniel showed the A.O.D. is the defiling of the temple not the destroying of it, and Jesus confirms this when He said you see it stand where it ought not be. In the temple defiling it with a pagan idol !!!

Once again when did Titus stand in the temple or place an abomination in the temple ????

He did not therefore it is not fulfilled.................................

I give you scripture and all you do is keep rejecting it, and keep running at the mouth trying to explain it away. I'll take the words of the Lord over Kens running at the mouth any day. Bye, Bye!

 

[jonl]

That is not the A.O.D. though, so your response is mute because the destruction of the temple is not the abomination that causes desolation.

Lord Jesus said to refer back to Daniel, and Daniel shows that it is when the temple is entered and an abomination is set up inside of it. That did not happen in 70 AD. as no abomination was set up then, and Titus even ordered his soldiers not to destroy the temple but they disobeyed and destroyed it any way.

70 AD did not fulfill the A.O.D. event because it is not referring to the destruction of the temple, but the defiling of it by the setting of an idol inside of it. Notice how Revelation 13:14 says the same thing, that the false prophet sets up an image of the beast and causes all to worship it................That is the A.O.D. !!!

I wrote a long post on Daniel’s 70[SUP]th[/SUP] week -- #125. It agrees with your idea that the A of D is for a future date (but possibly within a few years).

This is from that post:

THE 70 WEEKS OF DANIEL

excerpt:
So the 69 weeks were a period of 69 x 7 = 483 biblical years.
483 x 360 = 173,880 days. These 173,880 days ran from very early in the month of Nisan in 445 B.C. to terminate 476 solar years and 25 days later on a very significant and auspicious day. The 69 weeks ended on Palm Sunday, the day which saw the first coming of Christ as "Messiah the Prince" enter into His Holy city.
------------------

http://september2015.com/daniels-week-and-49-year-prophecy/

This long article goes into a lot of details on both re-applying the 7 weeks (49 years + June 7, 1967 giving Sept. 23, 2015. – and also, applying Daniel’s last week (70[SUP]th[/SUP] week) after the Sept. 23, 2015 date. (I’ve only skimmed through the details, so I’m not sure when the tribulation starts.) So if the tribulation starts in a few months (which is hard to believe since life seems kind of sedate right now), the A of D might take place in about 3 ½ years.

“Based on the article’s calculations, the second coming of Christ is around Sept. 21, 2021, during the Eve of Tabernacles.”

That accounts for a tribulation period of 6 years, and then the return of Christ at the beginning of the 7th year. However, the time might be shortened (Matthew 24:22), and Jesus will come as a thief in the night.

You might not agree with the calculations, but the article seems to be worth checking out (very long and detailed).

 

[flob]

On the Jewish Lunar/Solar calendar, a normal year is 354 days a Leap year is 384 days. Leap years occur 7 times in a 19 year cycle; on the 3rd 6th,8th,11th,14th,17th, and 19th year of the cycle.

Thanks Marc! This is not so relevant with these long numbers of years. Where the leap years balance out to make them equivalent of solar years.

the covenant could have been confirmed well before His death.

To the contrary dear Mr Valiant,
All the several time indicators in Daniel 9:24-27 show that its events, after the introduction which is verse 24,
are progressive and consecutive. Concluding in verse 27 with the destruction of the desolator.

'Seventy weeks are apportioned...From...Until...will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks...And After the sixty-two weeks...Will...And...And...will make a firm covenant...for one week; And in the middle of the week he Will...And Will...Until...'

The desolator is the one who in the middle of the covenant's seven Replaced Judaism's temple-worship with an abomination.
The covenant is made in verse 27, After Messiah was crucified in verse 26.

Another way of stating 'before and after' for you is that in verse 26 Messiah was crucified AD 30ish. And the words Following in verse 26 refer to AD 70. The covenant (verse 27) is even after That. AD 30 takes place Before AD 70. Before 71, 72, 73, 74...2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016.
Per the sequential construction of Daniel 9:25-27: the possible years for the covenant, AD 70---AD 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, etc; are all AFTER Jesus Christ's death.



You wrote a lot Mr Valiant. (About irrelevancy, like Caligula, soul-only-rapture---which actually, bully for you, you get a mark for bravery---soul-only-rapture which all or most Christians unconsciously or indifferently subscribe to----you dare to express it in precise terms----but then also the whole, old, tired Catholicism and Lutheranism and unbeliever 'scholar' lark that Revelation is a rehash of 1st century history, full of 'genius' warnings to Christians not to worship Caesars.) I'll try to address all that jive point by point tomorrow after you awaken. I can try to summarize it by asking you the question:
You're of the opinion, then, that neither Satan nor Christ needs or wants to bring the world situation to a 'climax'?
It's 'good enough' that things go on generally as they always have..........until.....well, there's just the cut off point?

 

[MarcR]

This is incorrect for one main reason and that is that the gospel book of Luke 3:1-2 says that John the baptist started his ministry in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar. That would place John starting his baptizing ministry in 29 AD., and Jesus could not have been crucified before then.

Then the gospels speak of the Passover and the day of which it took place on, and if we look a list from 29 AD to 36 AD we can narrow the field down to two dates by the scriptures;

Monday, April 18, A.D. 29
Friday, April 7, A.D. 30
Tuesday, March 27, A.D. 31
Monday, April 14, A.D. 32
Friday, April 3, A.D. 33
Wednesday, March 24, A.D. 34
Tuesday, April 12, A.D. 35
Saturday, March 31, A.D. 36

The bible also mentions three Passovers during Jesus ministry which would rule out the first possible date, and only leave the 33 AD as the only viable date.

TIBERIUS

3. Reign: In 13 A.D. (or according to Mommsen 11 A.D.) Tiberius was by a special law raised to the co-regency. Augustus died August 19, 14 A.D., and Tiberius succeeded. A mutiny in the Rhine legions was suppressed by Germanicus. The principal events of his reign (see also below) were the campaigns of Germanicus and Drusus, the withdrawal of the Romans to the Rhine, the settlement of the Armenian question, the rise and fall of Sejanus, the submission of Parthia. In 26 A.D., Tiberius retired to Capreae, where rumor attributed to him every excess of debauchery. On March 16, 37 A.D., Tiberius died at Misenum and was succeeded by Caius.
(from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

Assuming Mommson is correct (A reasonable assumption since he was a leading archeologist of his time) 11A.D. +15= 26 A.D. 26+2.5 =29.5.

We now have a disparity of +/- 7 mos. This can be explained by differences in how years werte reconed to begin by different Rabbinic sects.

Some Rabbinic sects reckon with years beginning on Abib1; and counting any part of a year as a year. Other Rabbinic sects reckon the king's reign to begin on Adar 29, and only count entire years.

This could mean that what is called in Luke the 15th year of Tiberius could be the 14th year of Tiberius by Daniel's reckoning of time.