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A
A few posts ago, I told of my "second date" with future-hubby. I told about a friend of mine that I called for flu-supplies. Same woman for this story. (Also my matron-of-honor.)
I've always dressed up to go to church, but apparently not how most people consider "dressed-up." I consider a freshly washed pair of jeans with no holes or frays "dressed up." I also believe a collar shirt or a real blouse (as compared to a T-shirt) is "dressed up." Add to that, I don't really notice anyone else's outfit, unless it really does something special for their eyes and skin. (Hubby has blue eyes that really sparkle if he's wearing a light blue shirt. He also looks sick if he's wearing brown. Just skin complexion stuff.) So I never noticed the older women wore dresses. I didn't care. Just as long as it's respectful, I really don't care.
Apparently, they did care. So they actually talked the pastor into spending what I considered three weeks pay at the time to buy me a professional wardrobe. I was looking for a new job, so that's why I thought they were doing that for me. I was also working on trusting God and trusting believers, so I didn't reject it out of pride. (That's still big for me.)
That friend and I went shopping and we picked out some quality outfits. Very la-tee-dah for me. I felt so grown up and professional.
And then the following Sunday, I put on my fresh jeans and collared shirt and went to church. I could tell something was wrong when she looked at me. She asked me why I wasn't wearing my new clothes. I told her because this wasn't a job interview. She asked me if I thought God would like to see me more dressed up. I told her God sees me on the toilet, so this IS dressed up for him.
I did wear a dress when the big wigs came to town. (I have no idea who knows which preacher, but since someone once mentioned Derek Prince, he was one of my nondenoms big wigs. The ones who came to town that I dressed up for were Bob Mumford, Charles Ross, and Ern Baxter. Got to give Ern Baxter credit. It was his syllabus of "must-have Christian books" that converted us to Reformed. I'm not sure he'd get that if we had ever told him that, but I bet he gets it now. lol) I did that out of respect for my fellow church members.
Ends up, that was the beginning of a good friendship with her. It seems I do that often enough with fellow believers. (Think differently.) One thing for sure, at least you'll understand who I am by what I say. I'm not one for hiding who I really am. I really do think if God has seen me on the toilet and chose me anyway, exactly why try to impress anyone else with a false mask? He really is the only one to impress, and I can't impress him, so it's easy enough to deal with everyone else after that.
And, for anyone who thinks they're too unattractive to ever attract a spouse. Ummm, this is really me. My 35th anniversary is coming up in October. The first thing he ever noticed about me was I was the new girl who boldly asked the pastor if I could add an announcement. (New girl. Didn't know I was supposed to ask before church, so asked after he was done giving the announcement. Got to know him later on and he told me he usually wasn't one who would allow that, but he really liked my "Question Authority" pin on my pocketbook. Big praise from someone who just got the job after the last pastor was a Jimmy Jones cult-leader destructive level guy, but I had joined when the dust was still settling. lol) The second thing hubby noticed was my bum. Whoops. I don't think I ever looked good until I saw pictures of me from back then. Just because we don't think we're attractive doesn't mean we aren't. Still, rather be accepted for doing something so definitively me than for what I look like.
I've always dressed up to go to church, but apparently not how most people consider "dressed-up." I consider a freshly washed pair of jeans with no holes or frays "dressed up." I also believe a collar shirt or a real blouse (as compared to a T-shirt) is "dressed up." Add to that, I don't really notice anyone else's outfit, unless it really does something special for their eyes and skin. (Hubby has blue eyes that really sparkle if he's wearing a light blue shirt. He also looks sick if he's wearing brown. Just skin complexion stuff.) So I never noticed the older women wore dresses. I didn't care. Just as long as it's respectful, I really don't care.
Apparently, they did care. So they actually talked the pastor into spending what I considered three weeks pay at the time to buy me a professional wardrobe. I was looking for a new job, so that's why I thought they were doing that for me. I was also working on trusting God and trusting believers, so I didn't reject it out of pride. (That's still big for me.)
That friend and I went shopping and we picked out some quality outfits. Very la-tee-dah for me. I felt so grown up and professional.
And then the following Sunday, I put on my fresh jeans and collared shirt and went to church. I could tell something was wrong when she looked at me. She asked me why I wasn't wearing my new clothes. I told her because this wasn't a job interview. She asked me if I thought God would like to see me more dressed up. I told her God sees me on the toilet, so this IS dressed up for him.
I did wear a dress when the big wigs came to town. (I have no idea who knows which preacher, but since someone once mentioned Derek Prince, he was one of my nondenoms big wigs. The ones who came to town that I dressed up for were Bob Mumford, Charles Ross, and Ern Baxter. Got to give Ern Baxter credit. It was his syllabus of "must-have Christian books" that converted us to Reformed. I'm not sure he'd get that if we had ever told him that, but I bet he gets it now. lol) I did that out of respect for my fellow church members.
Ends up, that was the beginning of a good friendship with her. It seems I do that often enough with fellow believers. (Think differently.) One thing for sure, at least you'll understand who I am by what I say. I'm not one for hiding who I really am. I really do think if God has seen me on the toilet and chose me anyway, exactly why try to impress anyone else with a false mask? He really is the only one to impress, and I can't impress him, so it's easy enough to deal with everyone else after that.
And, for anyone who thinks they're too unattractive to ever attract a spouse. Ummm, this is really me. My 35th anniversary is coming up in October. The first thing he ever noticed about me was I was the new girl who boldly asked the pastor if I could add an announcement. (New girl. Didn't know I was supposed to ask before church, so asked after he was done giving the announcement. Got to know him later on and he told me he usually wasn't one who would allow that, but he really liked my "Question Authority" pin on my pocketbook. Big praise from someone who just got the job after the last pastor was a Jimmy Jones cult-leader destructive level guy, but I had joined when the dust was still settling. lol) The second thing hubby noticed was my bum. Whoops. I don't think I ever looked good until I saw pictures of me from back then. Just because we don't think we're attractive doesn't mean we aren't. Still, rather be accepted for doing something so definitively me than for what I look like.
V
Whatever happened to the old adage, "You can put a dress on a pig, but it's still a pig,"? 
Some of the comments posted about making yourself attractive ain't flying. For one thing, how does it apply to the person who has a physical disability? Or to the one living in poverty who can't afford nice clothes? Or can’t afford dental care? Or someone who has a noticeable birth defect? Or to the elderly, the blind, the deaf, the overweight, the underweight, the emotionally disabled, the burn victim, the toothless, the hairless, the one with missing limbs, the social outcast?
If you aren't considered "unacceptable" to the public eye, and you feel your appearance is a blessing, I have no problem with that. I count my height as a blessing because I don't have to reach as far as other people to remove something from a high shelf. I can see over most people's heads in a crowd and I enjoy that blessing. But it certainly doesn't make me of more value than a little people. It just makes reaching up high more convenient to me.
But to place a high value on being eye-catching or having the ability to make other people admire your physical appearance or even lusting after you is deceiving. Being self-conscious of my outward appearance prevents me from being aware of you. The less self-conscious I am, the more I can see you and hear you. The more I die to myself, the more I can love you.
I don't think wanting to be desired by your significant other or your spouse is prideful. I just think wanting everyone else to think you're physically attractive is vanity. And if you measure the one you love according to the world's standards rather than Jesus' standard, I think you are deceived.
Don't you think it's rather ironic that Lucifer was the most beautiful of the angels and that Jesus was so unattractive, many people turned their gaze away from Him? And don't you think it very strange that the idols in Hollywood who many people try to emulate are FAKE, are all make-up and cosmetic surgery?
All I'm trying to say is whatever you believe regarding physical appearance, it has to apply to the whole family of God. We are one body in Christ Jesus. Jesus is the Head, the Vine. We are the branches. If someone is looking at me, they are looking at one part of the body of Jesus Christ. I would like for them to see Jesus Himself outshining me so He can draw them to Him.
Some of the comments posted about making yourself attractive ain't flying. For one thing, how does it apply to the person who has a physical disability? Or to the one living in poverty who can't afford nice clothes? Or can’t afford dental care? Or someone who has a noticeable birth defect? Or to the elderly, the blind, the deaf, the overweight, the underweight, the emotionally disabled, the burn victim, the toothless, the hairless, the one with missing limbs, the social outcast?
If you aren't considered "unacceptable" to the public eye, and you feel your appearance is a blessing, I have no problem with that. I count my height as a blessing because I don't have to reach as far as other people to remove something from a high shelf. I can see over most people's heads in a crowd and I enjoy that blessing. But it certainly doesn't make me of more value than a little people. It just makes reaching up high more convenient to me.
But to place a high value on being eye-catching or having the ability to make other people admire your physical appearance or even lusting after you is deceiving. Being self-conscious of my outward appearance prevents me from being aware of you. The less self-conscious I am, the more I can see you and hear you. The more I die to myself, the more I can love you.
I don't think wanting to be desired by your significant other or your spouse is prideful. I just think wanting everyone else to think you're physically attractive is vanity. And if you measure the one you love according to the world's standards rather than Jesus' standard, I think you are deceived.
Don't you think it's rather ironic that Lucifer was the most beautiful of the angels and that Jesus was so unattractive, many people turned their gaze away from Him? And don't you think it very strange that the idols in Hollywood who many people try to emulate are FAKE, are all make-up and cosmetic surgery?
All I'm trying to say is whatever you believe regarding physical appearance, it has to apply to the whole family of God. We are one body in Christ Jesus. Jesus is the Head, the Vine. We are the branches. If someone is looking at me, they are looking at one part of the body of Jesus Christ. I would like for them to see Jesus Himself outshining me so He can draw them to Him.
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It seems to me that natural physical attractiveness is God given; or at least not within the control of a person who has it.
Using physical attractiveness as a means of gratifying your own desires, or trying to enhance it for personal recognition is indeed vain; but many physically attractive people do NOT do that.
Marring natural physical attractiveness to avoid vanity would NOT please God.
Using physical attractiveness as a means of gratifying your own desires, or trying to enhance it for personal recognition is indeed vain; but many physically attractive people do NOT do that.
Marring natural physical attractiveness to avoid vanity would NOT please God.
E
well, here's another side to it
how about the women who are good looking and get nasty looks from the women in church who are, shall we say, plainer?
there's one that is not often discussed
no flirting, minimim makeup and properly dressed and still getting looked up and down as though they were flirting with everyone's husband
this happens to
how about the women who are good looking and get nasty looks from the women in church who are, shall we say, plainer?
there's one that is not often discussed
no flirting, minimim makeup and properly dressed and still getting looked up and down as though they were flirting with everyone's husband
this happens to
Well I have fallen for a number of women who were glowing with spiritual beauty , I was like "Lord are these women really that great", to which I get replies of "They will make you a good wife".
So I am like "WOW", I see they are beautiful, they are so amazing, but the thing is, they were not anything special looks wise and one was not really that physically attractive at all, it is just I could see and was shown tier "inner beauty", but of course I am not exactly the worlds most attractive guy, and freewill being what it is, they just refused my company.
So I am like "WOW", I see they are beautiful, they are so amazing, but the thing is, they were not anything special looks wise and one was not really that physically attractive at all, it is just I could see and was shown tier "inner beauty", but of course I am not exactly the worlds most attractive guy, and freewill being what it is, they just refused my company.
C
Physical attractiveness is such a subjective matter... a person may not be that good looking and you may still find yourself attracted to them!! It goes beyond looks!! And I do think it is important!! A person must be attractive for their significant other, otherwise there is something wrong. That's my humble opinion anyway...
E
Whatever happened to the old adage, "You can put a dress on a pig, but it's still a pig,"?
View attachment 129082
Some of the comments posted about making yourself attractive ain't flying. For one thing, how does it apply to the person who has a physical disability? Or to the one living in poverty who can't afford nice clothes? Or can’t afford dental care? Or someone who has a noticeable birth defect? Or to the elderly, the blind, the deaf, the overweight, the underweight, the emotionally disabled, the burn victim, the toothless, the hairless, the one with missing limbs, the social outcast?
If you aren't considered "unacceptable" to the public eye, and you feel your appearance is a blessing, I have no problem with that. I count my height as a blessing because I don't have to reach as far as other people to remove something from a high shelf. I can see over most people's heads in a crowd and I enjoy that blessing. But it certainly doesn't make me of more value than a little people. It just makes reaching up high more convenient to me.
But to place a high value on being eye-catching or having the ability to make other people admire your physical appearance or even lusting after you is deceiving. Being self-conscious of my outward appearance prevents me from being aware of you. The less self-conscious I am, the more I can see you and hear you. The more I die to myself, the more I can love you.
I don't think wanting to be desired by your significant other or your spouse is prideful. I just think wanting everyone else to think you're physically attractive is vanity. And if you measure the one you love according to the world's standards rather than Jesus' standard, I think you are deceived.
Don't you think it's rather ironic that Lucifer was the most beautiful of the angels and that Jesus was so unattractive, many people turned their gaze away from Him? And don't you think it very strange that the idols in Hollywood who many people try to emulate are FAKE, are all make-up and cosmetic surgery?
All I'm trying to say is whatever you believe regarding physical appearance, it has to apply to the whole family of God. We are one body in Christ Jesus. Jesus is the Head, the Vine. We are the branches. If someone is looking at me, they are looking at one part of the body of Jesus Christ. I would like for them to see Jesus Himself outshining me so He can draw them to Him.
View attachment 129082
Some of the comments posted about making yourself attractive ain't flying. For one thing, how does it apply to the person who has a physical disability? Or to the one living in poverty who can't afford nice clothes? Or can’t afford dental care? Or someone who has a noticeable birth defect? Or to the elderly, the blind, the deaf, the overweight, the underweight, the emotionally disabled, the burn victim, the toothless, the hairless, the one with missing limbs, the social outcast?
If you aren't considered "unacceptable" to the public eye, and you feel your appearance is a blessing, I have no problem with that. I count my height as a blessing because I don't have to reach as far as other people to remove something from a high shelf. I can see over most people's heads in a crowd and I enjoy that blessing. But it certainly doesn't make me of more value than a little people. It just makes reaching up high more convenient to me.
But to place a high value on being eye-catching or having the ability to make other people admire your physical appearance or even lusting after you is deceiving. Being self-conscious of my outward appearance prevents me from being aware of you. The less self-conscious I am, the more I can see you and hear you. The more I die to myself, the more I can love you.
I don't think wanting to be desired by your significant other or your spouse is prideful. I just think wanting everyone else to think you're physically attractive is vanity. And if you measure the one you love according to the world's standards rather than Jesus' standard, I think you are deceived.
Don't you think it's rather ironic that Lucifer was the most beautiful of the angels and that Jesus was so unattractive, many people turned their gaze away from Him? And don't you think it very strange that the idols in Hollywood who many people try to emulate are FAKE, are all make-up and cosmetic surgery?
All I'm trying to say is whatever you believe regarding physical appearance, it has to apply to the whole family of God. We are one body in Christ Jesus. Jesus is the Head, the Vine. We are the branches. If someone is looking at me, they are looking at one part of the body of Jesus Christ. I would like for them to see Jesus Himself outshining me so He can draw them to Him.
uh.....being good looking is not a sin
I am postive there are many plain looking men and women who have hearts more prideful and vain then some of the good looking ones
As long as we are discussing hearts here, let's try and remember that a good looking woman who was born that way, has a heart too and sometimes gets hurt by certain women who scorn her simply because of how she looks
IMO, you are coming across somewhat harsh here
V
I understand what you're saying, but what is your question, Sister Ember? I'm not begrudging anyone for being attractive to other folks. The point I was trying to make is that if we believe physical attraction increases our value as God's children, we're deceived.
People aren't responsible for those who are jealous of them or who are looking at them with flirty eyes. But those who dress or act a certain way to provoke those reactions are deceiving themselves. And I'm not even judging those who try to get attention. I'm just saying it's a no-win game. It's all in vain, as King Solomon said. Because our flesh is never satisfied, ya know?
Anyhow, if someone is eyeing you with lust or someone is snubbing their nose at you because they're jealous of you, they're the ones with the problem. So please don't think I'm telling anyone how to dress or act or look. I'm just reminding us all that this is REALITY: We are all so precious and beautiful and lovely and deserving of being loved and accepted by God and each other.
People aren't responsible for those who are jealous of them or who are looking at them with flirty eyes. But those who dress or act a certain way to provoke those reactions are deceiving themselves. And I'm not even judging those who try to get attention. I'm just saying it's a no-win game. It's all in vain, as King Solomon said. Because our flesh is never satisfied, ya know?
Anyhow, if someone is eyeing you with lust or someone is snubbing their nose at you because they're jealous of you, they're the ones with the problem. So please don't think I'm telling anyone how to dress or act or look. I'm just reminding us all that this is REALITY: We are all so precious and beautiful and lovely and deserving of being loved and accepted by God and each other.
E
You are expressing your opinion and I have mentionned that there are 2 sides to the coin
I really don't think how we look is what creates whatever heart we present
I think perception on the part of some might indicate they think that way, but I think hearts are revealed with what is in front of them and not necessairly the other way around
A woman does not have to be beautiful for a man to lust and a woman does not have to be beautiful for a very good looking man to fall in love with her
I just don't like generalizations to the extent one makes a case for that particular platform to the obscurity of a different side or outlook...but I undertstand that is often how things work
Just my take...thanks
I really don't think how we look is what creates whatever heart we present
I think perception on the part of some might indicate they think that way, but I think hearts are revealed with what is in front of them and not necessairly the other way around
A woman does not have to be beautiful for a man to lust and a woman does not have to be beautiful for a very good looking man to fall in love with her
I just don't like generalizations to the extent one makes a case for that particular platform to the obscurity of a different side or outlook...but I undertstand that is often how things work
Just my take...thanks
V
I honestly don't know how to answer you there, dear brother Agricola. But I do know when people want a partner for life, it's important that they're drawn to each other. Here's the thing though, it takes time to like someone, let alone love them and commit yourself to them.
I think people jump the gun too often when they're attracted to someone. They might be led to believe that the feelings they have for that attractive person might be "love", when in fact, it's just physical attraction. Which is fine, but we need to take time to get to know the person inside their hearts and minds.
I don't know who said it in an earlier thread, but someone made the comment that sometimes people want to find an attractive BF or GF who they can parade in public like a trophy so they feel more valuable. I think that happens a lot. Look at Hollywood, how they trade each other off like Topps baseball cards.
I feel heartache for young people today who are looking for a GF or BF because it's not like when I was young and people looked uniquely different. And MTV hadn't ruined it for us and we all wore cheap jeans and plain t-shirts and dime store sneakers. Most teens didn't have what you'd call a "hairstyle". Your hair was either long, short, frizzy or straight. That's it. And we were all various shapes and sizes, girls curves were all different shapes, not like cookie-cutter images they strive for today. But according to the commercials you see on television today, everyone is supposed to look like perfect robots. Women are supposed to look like underage teens. Men are made to look like they are not even men, but young boys. What is UP with that?
So I understand your dilemma. Even so, if we all support one another and remind each other of the abundant life Christ offers us, of how valuable we each are, and love one another, I think we can get through this life easier and with less mental scars.
I think people jump the gun too often when they're attracted to someone. They might be led to believe that the feelings they have for that attractive person might be "love", when in fact, it's just physical attraction. Which is fine, but we need to take time to get to know the person inside their hearts and minds.
I don't know who said it in an earlier thread, but someone made the comment that sometimes people want to find an attractive BF or GF who they can parade in public like a trophy so they feel more valuable. I think that happens a lot. Look at Hollywood, how they trade each other off like Topps baseball cards.
I feel heartache for young people today who are looking for a GF or BF because it's not like when I was young and people looked uniquely different. And MTV hadn't ruined it for us and we all wore cheap jeans and plain t-shirts and dime store sneakers. Most teens didn't have what you'd call a "hairstyle". Your hair was either long, short, frizzy or straight. That's it. And we were all various shapes and sizes, girls curves were all different shapes, not like cookie-cutter images they strive for today. But according to the commercials you see on television today, everyone is supposed to look like perfect robots. Women are supposed to look like underage teens. Men are made to look like they are not even men, but young boys. What is UP with that?
So I understand your dilemma. Even so, if we all support one another and remind each other of the abundant life Christ offers us, of how valuable we each are, and love one another, I think we can get through this life easier and with less mental scars.
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V
I still don't know what you are defending. If I'm correct, you were making a case for "women who are good looking" in your first comment. In your second comment, you state: "A woman does not have to be beautiful for a man to lust." I'm confused by what point you're trying to make.
You conclude with, "I just don't like generalizations to the extent one makes a case for that particular platform to the obscurity of a different side or outlook." Speaking of obscurity, you lost me. I don't know what coin you're talking about, what side you're talking about, what generalization you mean, if you're talking about good looking women, women who aren't good looking, men who lust, people who are jealous.
One thing's for sure, you're missing MY point in that this thread was to encourage my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus who might be struggling with trying to measure up to the false images the world throws at us. That's all.
Perhaps you can start a new thread expressing your opinion regarding those 2 sides of the coin and maybe I'll understand what you're talking about.
You conclude with, "I just don't like generalizations to the extent one makes a case for that particular platform to the obscurity of a different side or outlook." Speaking of obscurity, you lost me.
I don't know what coin you're talking about, what side you're talking about, what generalization you mean, if you're talking about good looking women, women who aren't good looking, men who lust, people who are jealous. One thing's for sure, you're missing MY point in that this thread was to encourage my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus who might be struggling with trying to measure up to the false images the world throws at us. That's all.
Perhaps you can start a new thread expressing your opinion regarding those 2 sides of the coin and maybe I'll understand what you're talking about.
J
I don't think there's anything 'vain' to try giving yourself some perks, as long as it doesn't attract for lustful reasons (women showing off their shape, putting on excessive makeup to the point that their appearance is like an illusion compared to having less, etc.)
With that said, if I left myself loose and fully natural (which would mean I would no longer do my eyebrows, put on some concealer, etc.) then that probably make people afraid to approach me, at least more so than they do now, let alone for me to accept what I see in the mirror.
With that said, if I left myself loose and fully natural (which would mean I would no longer do my eyebrows, put on some concealer, etc.) then that probably make people afraid to approach me, at least more so than they do now, let alone for me to accept what I see in the mirror.