Sunday Keepers Dare to explain this

[GandalfTheWhite]

My purpose is to identify logical flaws with those who claim that these things are required for salvation, and you can be sure I will continue to do so. I won't allow those who teach this sort of thing to go unchallenged.

You are judging people and the Bible is clear that we should leave judgement to God. You are convinced that you are the authority, judge and jury for people who want to follow the word of God. It is easy to always run your mouth but it is difficult to teach with a humble hart.

If that is what you are trying to do (teach with a humble hart) I am missing it because your posts are arrogant and judgemental...

 

[sparkman]

Worldwide Church of God isn't a cult now..they don't teach cultic doctrines. They did prior to the reforms. Since 1995, they haven't taught Armstrongism. Their new name is Grace Communion International. So, Worldwide Church of God doesn't exist, and GCI is not a cult. I am not part of them; I attend an Evangelical Free church, but GCI is not a cult and I have no issue with them. I simply don't share all their doctrinal positions at this time.

Please note that Armstrongites call other Christians "so-called believers", false believers, and state that they are following a "counterfeit Christianity". Would I call such an individual a brother when they would not call me a brother? No, I wouldn't extend that title to them. Some of them might be saved but doctrinally confused, but chances are many of them aren't even saved. I was saved even as a Worldwide Church of God member, but I changed from my position when God showed me I was in error.

Be honest. Do Armstrongites as a rule consider others outside of their group to be Christian brothers? No, they do not. They consider them to be false "so-called Christians" who are following a counterfeit form of Christianity. If you claim otherwise, you are simply misrepresenting them. We both know that. They think that "other Christians" are blinded and deceived by Satan and that they are following a false form of Christianity, and are not true believers.

I report those that claim that other believers are "so-called Christians" or false Christians or are following a counterfeit Christianity. Why should the site allow people here who are throwing rocks at individuals who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ, calling them false Christians? I also report those who post from Armstrongite or Hebrew Roots Movement websites that make similar accusations toward other Christians. I would do the same thing if someone was posting from the Book of Mormon and trying to convert people to Mormonism.

If you expect to be able to post bad information or Armstrongite silliness without being challenged, it's not likely going to happen here. As long as you're not accusing others of being false believers or "so-called Christians" or following a "counterfeit Christianity" you aren't likely to get banned anyways. That's where the behavior crosses the line. I've seen people get banned for that before.

let me see how much brotherly love you have.

you went and listed everyone in wcg and all the splinter groups as colts,

and you force people to state what you want them to say,

then you attack them for posting from any of those groups.


time and again I see you try getting people kicked out by telling on them.

do they not have a view here to say what they believe in those groups.

 

[sparkman]

You are judging people and the Bible is clear that we should leave judgement to God. You are convinced that you are the authority, judge and jury for people who want to follow the word of God. It is easy to always run your mouth but it is difficult to teach with a humble hart.

If that is what you are trying to do (teach with a humble hart) I am missing it because your posts are arrogant and judgemental...

Do you acknowledge that non-Sabbathkeepers are saved?

As I have said, I will expose the folly of those who are claiming that non-Sabbathkeepers are following a false form of Christianity and are "so-called Christians".

Those who claim that keeping the Sabbath and Holy Days are requirements, conditions or necessary fruits of salvation are the ones who are judging others. It is a continuing pattern, and those who do it can expect to have their arguments countered.

I am not judging the person's salvation anyways..I'm judging their bad doctrine which is easily refuted. Scripture tells us to contend for the faith, and Judaizing is not the message of the gospel. The need to place one's faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is the true gospel, not the need to observe ceremonial or ritualistic elements of the law such as the Sabbath, holy days, clean and unclean meat laws and physical circumcision.

 

[sparkman]

Did Jesus pay for all my sins past present and future when He died on the cross (and then rose from the grave) or didn't He? If He did, do I now and forever have permission to rejoice and thank Him, or is there a certain formula I must follow to be accepted, or certain laws I must keep like new moons and things. What really is the GoodNews of the Gospel?

Good question. One certainly doesn't need to keep the ceremonial and ritualistic aspects of the Old Covenant, like the Sabbath, Holy Days, clean and unclean meat laws, and physical circumcision.

The apostolic writings define what is required for a Christian, namely to love others and to place one's faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.

 

[KennethC]

Did Jesus pay for all my sins past present and future when He died on the cross (and then rose from the grave) or didn't He? If He did, do I now and forever have permission to rejoice and thank Him, or is there a certain formula I must follow to be accepted, or certain laws I must keep like new moons and things. What really is the GoodNews of the Gospel?

Actually there is still a standard to be followed by new covenant believers it is just not the Mosaic written ordinances.

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

The perfect law of liberty here is not the Mosaic laws, they are the commands and teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ from the gospel books on how to receive remission of sins and to walk in love for Him and all others. Apostle Paul and Peter both say only past sins have been forgiven (Romans 3:25, 2 Peter 1:9), and Apostle John says by continuing to walk in the light(Spirit) and confess their sins will future sins be covered (1 John 1:7-2:2).

 

[sparkman]

You are judging people and the Bible is clear that we should leave judgement to God. You are convinced that you are the authority, judge and jury for people who want to follow the word of God. It is easy to always run your mouth but it is difficult to teach with a humble hart.

If that is what you are trying to do (teach with a humble hart) I am missing it because your posts are arrogant and judgemental...

let me see how much brotherly love you have.

you went and listed everyone in wcg and all the splinter groups as colts,

and you force people to state what you want them to say,

then you attack them for posting from any of those groups.


time and again I see you try getting people kicked out by telling on them.

do they not have a view here to say what they believe in those groups.

To illustrate the claims that these Armstrongite groups make, you can look at this website:

What Did the New Testament Church Look Like?


This is from the Restored Church of God, which is a typical Armstrongite cult. As one can clearly see, they claim that orthodox Christianity is counterfeit and that they are the true faith.

Restored Church of God is only one of the Armstrongite cults that make similar claims.

Notice their basis for making such claims..because they deny the Trinity, and keep the Sabbaths and the Festivals. Note their clear claim to be the true church, and their claim that others are false believers.


I was a member of Worldwide Church of God, which taught the same foolishness. Fortunately God liberated me and the rest of Worldwide Church of God from this.

GandolftheWhite..read this webpage and then come back and tell me who is judging others. These are the sorts of people that prove-all is defending. This is just one group of many Armstrongites that descended from Worldwide Church of God and their false teachings.

Who is judging who? It is them who are throwing rocks at orthodox Christianity.

One of the persons who was banned continually posted things from Restored Church of God.

Anyone who wants to do a little research can see that what I am saying in regards to their bad teaching and accusations is true.

 

[prove-all]

Do you acknowledge that non-Sabbathkeepers are saved?

.

this is the same question you hounded me over and over for.

even after I told you what I believed several times, and asked you to stop,

you started calling me names and other things because I would not play your games,

and that was not good enough answer for you.

you accused me of saying things with others, you could not backup your accusations.


just a few posts asking you to stop harassing me

can you show post please i can not find it.

i am done answering you on that question, call me coward again all you want,

after i told you several times what believe.

if i believed that sunday keepers where unsaved i would have told you,

I believe once enlightened with the spirit, you can fall and not be able to become salty again,

which I pray does not happen to you.

2. No conduct that is offensive or counterproductive to fellowship.

We like to welcome all to Christian Chat, but if anyone is not here for fellowship
(or for wanting to know about Christianity), but simply for disrupting fellowship, offending people,
whatever, then that person is not welcome.

you are offending me by asking this question over and over,
you where told several times, but your eyes and ears are not open.

I will not ask again for you to stop harassing me about this question.

 

[sparkman]

Note this post which you liked..claiming that Protestants were following a false Christianity.

I posted a link to an Armstrongite website which plainly shows that they believe they teach the "truth" and that other churches are in error.

If you want to approve of such remarks, take ownership for them.

I don't care if you get upset or not. Accusing Protestants of following a false religion isn't a very gracious attitude. You guys think you can make remarks like this with impugnity and without being challenged...not likely.

By the way my question was GandolfTheWhite..not you...

It's a widely held belief that the Great Whore in Revelation is the Vatican. It matches every description. She "sits on many waters", introduced countless paganistic abominations into christianity, has persecuted the saints, banned the Bible in the middle ages, and has committed fornication with the kings of the earth.

The "harlot daughters" that came out of her are likely the protestant churches. Most of the catholic churche's heresies carried over to them.

So it should be of no suprise that none of these churches obey the sabbath command, and instead honor sunday.

this is the same question you hounded me over and over for.

even after I told you what I believed several times, and asked you to stop,

you started calling me names and other things because I would not play your games,

and that was not good enough answer for you.

you accused me of saying things with others, you could not backup your accusations.


just a few posts asking you to stop harassing me

 

[sparkman]

By the way, I think it's especially hilarious that you think maybe God sent you to me to bring me back to the "true faith"...I laughed about that remark.

Note this post which you liked..claiming that Protestants were following a false Christianity.

I posted a link to an Armstrongite website which plainly shows that they believe they teach the "truth" and that other churches are in error.

If you want to approve of such remarks, take ownership for them.

I don't care if you get upset or not. Accusing Protestants of following a false religion isn't a very gracious attitude. You guys think you can make remarks like this with impugnity and without being challenged...not likely.

By the way my question was GandolfTheWhite..not you...

 

[prove-all]

By the way, I think it's especially hilarious that you think maybe God sent you to me to bring me back to the "true faith"...I laughed about that remark.

I think it is sad you do not believe in the bible, like false Christs, and false prophets did not happen

some of Gods warning about another gospel being preached

2 Thessalonians 2:7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let,
until he be taken out of the way.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 (KJV)
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Jesus Christ warned, "Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many" (Matthew 24:4–5).
"There are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ" (Galatians 1:7).

"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you
than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you
than what you have received, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8–9).

For (false Christs) and (false prophets shall rise), and shall shew signs and wonders,
to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. Mark 13:22

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders;
insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:24

Beware of (false prophets), which come to you in (sheep's clothing),
but inwardly they are ravening wolves.(Matthew 7:15)

As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that
you may (charge certain persons) not to teach (any different doctrine),(1 Timothy 3)

But there were (false prophets) also among the people, even as there shall be
(false teachers among you), who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying
the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. (2 Peter 2:1)

These people are the ones who are creating divisions among you. They follow
their natural instincts because they do not have God’s Spirit in them.(Jude 1:19)

In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation
has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.(2 Peter 2:3)

a man named Simon had been a sorcerer there for many years,
amazing the people of Samaria and claiming to be someone great, a god to the people.

Everyone, from the least to the greatest, often spoke of him as
“the Great One—the Power of God.” They listened closely to him because for a long time
he had astounded them with his magic.Acts 8:9-10)

These are the things you are to teach and insist on.
If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction
of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 1 Timothy 6:3


Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith;
they will follow deceptive spirits and (teachings that come from demons). 1 Timothy 4:14

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?(Matthew 7:22)

"Many will "begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,'
Jesus said "Depart from Me, (all you workers of iniquity)."

Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away
disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that (for three years) I never stopped
(warning each of you night and day with tears).Acts 20:30

Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not
be carried away by the error of (the lawless) and (fall from your secure position).(2 Peter 3:17)

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine,but according to their own desires,
because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers. (II Timothy 4:3)

I know that false teachers, like vicious wolves, will (come in among you after I leave),
not sparing the flock.Even some men from (your own group) will rise up and
(distort the truth) in order to draw a following.(Acts 20:29)


(A great wave of persecution began that day), sweeping over the church in Jerusalem;
and (all the believers except the apostles) were scattered through the regions of Judea and Samaria.(acts 8:9)

- all the believers scattered except the apostles, and they were tortured and killed.


Daniel 7:25 (KJV)
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High,
and (think to change times and laws): and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

“Pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
For then shall be great tribulation

17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant
of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips,
but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines
the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:8–9).

"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death" (Proverbs 14:12; 16:25



- I will believe what the bible says

 

[sparkman]

Again, more accusations that orthodox Christianity is teaching a false gospel.

Here's another post which you liked that says the same stuff. Note that john832 says that keeping the Sabbath is a requirement for salvation. AND denies the Trinity.

You must realize that it is you two that are teaching false things and leveling accusations of a false gospel against those who are teaching true Christianity.

Again, I provide a link that lists the bad theology of Armstrongites, including the claim that they are going to be born into the Godhead in the resurrection:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/114577-beware-armstrongism.html

Can a true believer deny that not murdering is a condition of salvation?

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

John writes here that those who KEEP the Commandments are given the right to the tree of life and yes the fourth Commandment is one of those Commandments.

You seem to want to separate out ONE of the Commandments and say it si not necessary to keep it. If it is unnecessary to keep the fourth one, what about the third or fifth? Can one take God's holy name in vain, use it in all sorts of filthy communication and still be in the Kingdom?

What about dishonoring your parents?

Eph 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
Eph 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise
Eph 6:3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
Eph 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Paul seemed to think it was still in effect.



No, they are in the same category as those who break any of the other nine Commandments.

Would you believe that a liar is a true believer?

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

How about those who bow down to idols? how about adulterers? Those who practice Wicca or participate in séances? Are they true believers?

Those who ignore and break the Commandments without repenting are not true believers.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Breaking any of the Ten Commandments is a sin.

Please answer for all of us here whether you believe one can ignore and willfully break any of the Ten Commandments and be a converted Christian.



No, I do not. If the trinity doctrine is true, who died? If God is one in three phases (Yep, I endured the Nature of God tapes from K. J. Stavrinides).

Who was on earth and who was in heaven? How did the Father forsake Christ while He was on the stake?

Here is an interesting question for you, in every epistle in the New Testament, Paul sends a greeting from the Father and Christ and the Holy Spirit is NEVER mentioned. Hmmm if the Holy Spirit is a person, why did Paul snub him?



Yes I do, don't you?

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

God is making man after His image and LIKENESS. What does it mean to be like Christ?

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

You don't believe you will be LIKE Christ? You think you will be something different?

Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

Maybe you don't believe that we are the family of God, Paul did and so do I.



Seems to me that I have not ever left any doubt about what I believe but just for you, I have restated the truth from scripture.



You have been deceived by those who led the church into apostasy. The Tkach's, Feazel, Albrecht and company led the church away from truth and sound doctrine.

Hope these answers are clear enough and straightforward enough for you. I try not to leave any doubt about what I know to be truth.

I think it is sad you do not believe in the bible, like false Christs, and false prophets did not happen

some of Gods warning about another gospel being preached

2 Thessalonians 2:7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let,
until he be taken out of the way.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 (KJV)
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Jesus Christ warned, "Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many" (Matthew 24:4–5).
"There are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ" (Galatians 1:7).

"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you
than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you
than what you have received, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8–9).

For (false Christs) and (false prophets shall rise), and shall shew signs and wonders,
to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. Mark 13:22

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders;
insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:24

Beware of (false prophets), which come to you in (sheep's clothing),
but inwardly they are ravening wolves.(Matthew 7:15)

As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that
you may (charge certain persons) not to teach (any different doctrine),(1 Timothy 3)

But there were (false prophets) also among the people, even as there shall be
(false teachers among you), who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying
the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. (2 Peter 2:1)

These people are the ones who are creating divisions among you. They follow
their natural instincts because they do not have God’s Spirit in them.(Jude 1:19)

In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation
has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.(2 Peter 2:3)

a man named Simon had been a sorcerer there for many years,
amazing the people of Samaria and claiming to be someone great, a god to the people.

Everyone, from the least to the greatest, often spoke of him as
“the Great One—the Power of God.” They listened closely to him because for a long time
he had astounded them with his magic.Acts 8:9-10)

These are the things you are to teach and insist on.
If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction
of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 1 Timothy 6:3


Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith;
they will follow deceptive spirits and (teachings that come from demons). 1 Timothy 4:14

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?(Matthew 7:22)

"Many will "begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,'
Jesus said "Depart from Me, (all you workers of iniquity)."

Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away
disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that (for three years) I never stopped
(warning each of you night and day with tears).Acts 20:30

Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not
be carried away by the error of (the lawless) and (fall from your secure position).(2 Peter 3:17)

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine,but according to their own desires,
because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers. (II Timothy 4:3)

I know that false teachers, like vicious wolves, will (come in among you after I leave),not sparing the flock.
Even some men from (your own group) will rise up and (distort the truth) in order to draw a following.
(Acts 20:29)

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are
turning to a different gospel,which is really no gospel at all.
(A great wave of persecution began that day), sweeping over the church in Jerusalem;
and (all the believers except the apostles) were scattered through the regions of Judea and Samaria.(acts 8:9)

- all the believers scattered except the apostles, and they were tortured and killed.


Daniel 7:25 (KJV)
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High,
and (think to change times and laws): and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

“Pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
For then shall be great tribulation

17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:8–9).

"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death" (Proverbs 14:12; 16:25



- I will believe what the bible says

 

[prove-all]

Good question. One certainly doesn't need to keep the ceremonial and ritualistic aspects of the Old Covenant, like the Sabbath, Holy Days, clean and unclean meat laws, and physical circumcision.

.

thats not what the bible says about it in the N.T.


new testament command

22And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it,
and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
23And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks,
he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.

24And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new [testament],
which is shed for many.
25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine,
until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

-Jesus changed the simbles , not the passover holy day occurance.
still only happened once a year, no more sacrifices required, he is our priest.

1 Corinthians 5:7
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened.
For even [Christ] our passover is [sacrificed] for us:

-passover was once a year, because of this act of Christs


1 Corinthians 5:8
Therefore let us [keep the feast],

-bible tells use to keep [a feast], then he goes on to say how to keep it,
but he said to keep [a] feast day.

not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness;
but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and [truth].


-deciples keep [feast of unleavened bread] after Christs death

Acts 12:3 (KJV)
And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also.
(Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

Acts 20:6 (KJV)
And we sailed away from Philippi after (the days of unleavened bread),
and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.

-now [the feast] of unleavened bread, was [the night to be most remembered]

people do not want to put sin out of there lives. unleavened bread study...



1What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

“Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day,
every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes”


-also the only sign given this generation, refutes the easter tradation as false, and not truth.


“Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them [pagan
religious customs] … and that thou inquire not after their gods

 

[prove-all]

Again, more accusations that orthodox Christianity is teaching a false gospel.

no its more bible verses you do not even believe are true, shame

 

[sparkman]

This proves nothing.

The Jewish part of the church continued to observe some elements of the Old Covenant, not by requirement but by preference.

Regarding the Days of Unleavened Bread in Corinth, there were likely Jewish members in the congregation there. It also could have been a metaphorical reference to putting sin out of one's life, rather than a literal keeping of the day.

As indicated, Colossians 2:16-17 clearly teaches keeping the Sabbath and annual festivals are not required. It groups them into the same category as food and drink offerings, which are not required under the New Covenant (Hebrews 9:9-11). The same language of "shadows of things to come" is used in relation to animal sacrifices in Hebrews 10:1-2, placing them in the same category of applicability.

Communion is one of the two signs of the New Covenant, and continues to be observed. Baptism is the entry level sign of the New Covenant, and the Lord's Supper is the continuing "remembrance" sign. These two signs replace the signs of the Old Covenant, which were circumcision and the Sabbath.

thats not what the bible says about it in N.T.


new testament command

22And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it,
and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
23And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks,
he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.

24And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new [testament],
which is shed for many.
25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine,
until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

-Jesus changed the simbles , not the passover holy day occurance.
still only happened once a year, no more sacrifices required, he is our priest.

1 Corinthians 5:7
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened.
For even [Christ] our passover is [sacrificed] for us:

-passover was once a year, because of this act of Christs


1 Corinthians 5:8
Therefore let us [keep the feast],

-bible tells use to keep [a feast], then he goes on to say how to keep it,
but he said to keep [a] feast day.

not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness;
but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and [truth]. unleavened study...


-deciples keep [feast of unleavened bread] after Christs death

Acts 12:3 (KJV)
And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also.
(Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

Acts 20:6 (KJV)
And we sailed away from Philippi after (the days of unleavened bread),
and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.

-now [the feast] of unleavened bread, was [the night to be most remembered]

people do not want to put sin out of there lives.



1What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

“Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day,
every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes”


-also the only sign given this generation, refutes the easter tradation as false, and not truth.


“Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them [pagan
religious customs] … and that thou inquire not after their gods

 

[sparkman]

I believe Scripture. I don't believe the way you are attempting to use it to prove that orthodox Christianity is a false gospel. Armstrongism is a false gospel and slanders the true gospel. Satan also knows Scripture and misquotes it to make his assertions.

Note that Galatians 1:6-7 which is used by Armstrongites in reference to orthodox Christianity actually applies to Judaizers who were teaching that elements of the Old Covenant applied to New Covenant believers. This is the main message of Armstrongites. The whole book of Galatians is about a similar heretical teaching as Armstrongism.

no its more bible verses you do not even believe are true, shame

 

[prove-all]

I believe Scripture. I don't believe the way you are attempting to use it to prove that orthodox Christianity is a false gospel. .

can you show me where i ever said the word orthodox , or pointed them out.

maybe back when you tried to claim this was an only orthodox site, or wanted it to be.


do you think i am picking on your religion, that is the true religion untainted,


you protrayed that none others with different beliefs can join this christian chat site.

 

[tanach]

What is actually the motivation of Sabbath keepers in urging others to keep it? Is it a loving concern for Sunday worshipers. I don't think so. The main concern is to justify themselves and to put others in bondage to the law. My other point is in the story of the rich young ruler. Jesus tells him which of the commandments he should keep. One is notable by its absence and that is Sabbath keeping. If this was so vital to our salvation as Sabbath keepers seem to believe then why wasn't it the first that Jesus would mention instead of ignoring it altogether.

 

[sparkman]

can you show me where i ever said the word orthodox , or pointed them out.

maybe back when you tried to claim this was an only orthodox site, or wanted it to be.


do you think i am picking on your religion, that is the true religion untainted,


you protrayed that none others with different beliefs can join this christian chat site.

I know what Armstrongism teaches. It teaches that Protestantism is a false gospel, and couples it with Roman Catholicism as being the great prostitute of Revelation 17, with the daughter harlots who are the Protestant churches.

Of course, they conveniently leave themselves outside of the system, and claim they are teaching "the Truth". By the way, this is not abnormal for cults. They all claim to have "the Truth". Many of them claimed to restore "true Christianity" like Herbert Armstrong did.

Your posts perfectly reflect Armstrongism. As the post below does which originated with john832 and to which you liked.

The reality is that you guys are following a false gospel. Teaching that elements of the Old Covenant, including the Sabbath, holy days, and clean/unclean meats apply to New Covenant Christians as a requirement or condition or necessary fruit of salvation is what Galatians was about. The very verses you use to call Protestantism a false gospel are the ones that condemn your own false gospel.

I haven't said who can join this site..I have no power over that. Personally I don't mind people with bad theology trying to teach it here as it's mostly easily refutable and other Christians learn in the process. They are being inoculated from accepting Judaizing through watching the exchange. That is one of the benefits of apologetics..it strengthens the faith of those who are observing. I know about this one topic and how it can be refuted, so I am glad to address it. Others know about other topics and I can learn from them.

So, keep on presenting bad arguments for requiring New Covenant Christians to observe the Sabbath and Holy Days. I will address them and others will learn. You may not but they will I had to work all of these things out of my indoctrination and brainwashing...you are only strengthening me and I should thank you for it

 

[prove-all]

By the way my question was GandolfTheWhite..not you...

- yes, but that was the same question you been bugging others with, like me.

by the way, post #277 was not for you, but you butted in on post #278 anyway ruddley

 

[sparkman]

What is actually the motivation of Sabbath keepers in urging others to keep it? Is it a loving concern for Sunday worshipers. I don't think so. The main concern is to justify themselves and to put others in bondage to the law. My other point is in the story of the rich young ruler. Jesus tells him which of the commandments he should keep. One is notable by its absence and that is Sabbath keeping. If this was so vital to our salvation as Sabbath keepers seem to believe then why wasn't it the first that Jesus would mention instead of ignoring it altogether.

I think most of them are sincere, but they are sincerely wrong.

Armstrongites have been taught that it is "the truth" and that we are all deceived by Satan. Usually they aren't evangelistic, though. They basically believe everyone except themselves are deceived until the Millennium. They are in training to be the ones who teach us "the Truth" in the Millennium. They don't care much about sharing their special privilege of rulership in the Millennium, so they don't proselytize much. They are the "elect" who will rule with Christ due to their faithfulness to the Old Covenant ceremonial and ritualistic aspects like the Sabbath, Holy Days, and clean/unclean meats. They think that keeping these things are the proof that they are real Christians.

Unless things have changed...that is how it was when I was in Worldwide Church of God. Our job was to "pray and pay" and not to share the Gospel message. That was done by the leadership, but we were considered incompetent boobs who weren't capable of sharing "the Gospel". That is ok with me..I didn't indoctrinate anyone else into foolishness and I am glad of that.

It seems like Hebrew Roots Movement people are more evangelistic and try to recruit others. Seventh Day Adventists are similar.

Now, I have something to share that is worthwhile..that Jesus died for our sins, and through placing our faith in that perfect sacrifice, we can be forgiven and share in eternal life. That is the true gospel...not a phoney gospel concerning Sabbathkeeping, festival observance, and clean/unclean meat laws that mentions Jesus and his sacrifice occasionally rather than making Him the focus.