If you believe in OSAS, please answer a few questions for me.
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I don't read Jason's posts anymore. I have him on ignore for the very reasons dcontroversal stated. Jason is a master of begging the question. He has no interest in actual debate. His posts are all the same. He simply rehashes the same pick-and-choose scriptures he always does, ad nauseum. The exact same scriptures that have been dealt with a thousand times. When he starts losing the debate (as he always does) he simply starts a new "OSAS" thread, or hijacks someone else's thread, and starts all over again.
And I swear, it actually seems that he can't really comprehend what he himself posts. He claims things like, "anyone who sins is of the devil" yet has admitted in other posts that he still sins.
Well guess what Jason? That means YOU are of the devil!
Jason will not respond to any correction, no matter how gently it's offered. He pulls the "victim" and "personal attack" cards out of his hat like a magician when someone begins to debate him using his own tactics against him.
Jason knows all of our arguments, and he rejects them out of hand. Let him wither on the "ignore" vine, and maybe he will one day come to his senses.
And I swear, it actually seems that he can't really comprehend what he himself posts. He claims things like, "anyone who sins is of the devil" yet has admitted in other posts that he still sins.
Well guess what Jason? That means YOU are of the devil!
Jason will not respond to any correction, no matter how gently it's offered. He pulls the "victim" and "personal attack" cards out of his hat like a magician when someone begins to debate him using his own tactics against him.
Jason knows all of our arguments, and he rejects them out of hand. Let him wither on the "ignore" vine, and maybe he will one day come to his senses.
I say this in love, but everyone's comments here so far are a smoke screen. They are diversion tactic so as not to deal with the real core issue of the questions I asked. For it is dealing with whether or not you can do evil and still be saved. That is what I am talking about here. However, it does not surprise me that I am insulted and or that such a point goes ignored.
W
Here's why: Because you're a troll, Jason -- a troll!
Here's evidence:
Almost virtually EVERYONE shares a similar experience with you, Jason; you present YOUR views AS IF they are the word of God -- you IGNORE any view that is not YOUR OWN. You speak as if YOUR views are GOD's views. Even theologians, who have debated for centuries are not as certain as you seem to be on the issues you choose to address.
Step back and ponder for a bit. No - not a bit, a good long while. Think about it; why do you think a vast majority of ChristianChat.com regulars disagree with you?
Here's evidence:
Almost virtually EVERYONE shares a similar experience with you, Jason; you present YOUR views AS IF they are the word of God -- you IGNORE any view that is not YOUR OWN. You speak as if YOUR views are GOD's views. Even theologians, who have debated for centuries are not as certain as you seem to be on the issues you choose to address.
Step back and ponder for a bit. No - not a bit, a good long while. Think about it; why do you think a vast majority of ChristianChat.com regulars disagree with you?
W
However, when someone says: Yes - it is possible to do evil, yet still be saved - you say: No, it's not.
Your argument is that WE ALWAYS are taking scripture out of context, yet you do not ever consider that YOU may be the one taking the things out of context. Furthermore, you also never acknowledge that there are various interpretations of the scriptures -- and even those who dedicate their lives to studying these texts cannot, with 100% certainty, explain ALL of the MYSTERY that is God.
Your argument is that WE ALWAYS are taking scripture out of context, yet you do not ever consider that YOU may be the one taking the things out of context. Furthermore, you also never acknowledge that there are various interpretations of the scriptures -- and even those who dedicate their lives to studying these texts cannot, with 100% certainty, explain ALL of the MYSTERY that is God.
E
Um...Ok
Ok so I will help you condemn me. Here are the answers to your questions; yes, no maybe, yes ,yes, no, yes, yes, no maybe. They are in no particular order so you can place them where you want and send me to hell. You can now tell me how much better you are than me so you feel good about yourself.
Ok so I will help you condemn me. Here are the answers to your questions; yes, no maybe, yes ,yes, no, yes, yes, no maybe. They are in no particular order so you can place them where you want and send me to hell. You can now tell me how much better you are than me so you feel good about yourself.
S
Because it IS about fear. Not fear of going to hell, but fear of failing to do the very basic things with God in heaven has requested of us. Even with the Holy Spirit inside of us we still fail Him on a daily (nay, hourly) basis.
1 Corinthians 3
10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
YES, a believer can be saved and still do something evil. Have you ever read Romans 7
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
1 Corinthians 3
10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
YES, a believer can be saved and still do something evil. Have you ever read Romans 7
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Again, you have failed to address any verses that I have brought up. If you were on the side of truth, you would have no trouble explaining those verses in the proper context.
Also, you are claiming that I cannot know the truth of God's Word. Where does the Bible teach that? I know by the Scriptures that the Bible teaches the exact opposite? The question is: Do you know which verses teach that? I do.
As for the majority: Well, Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it. So it is not the wide gate or the popular path people are on, my friend.
Also, you are claiming that I cannot know the truth of God's Word. Where does the Bible teach that? I know by the Scriptures that the Bible teaches the exact opposite? The question is: Do you know which verses teach that? I do.
As for the majority: Well, Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it. So it is not the wide gate or the popular path people are on, my friend.
No. A believer cannot do evil and still be saved. Paul is talking from the perspective a Jew who obeyed the Law before he was a Christian in the bulk of Romans 7. At the end of Romans 7 and in Romans 8 is where Paul talks about his experience as a Christian. For if not, then Paul would be contradicting himself. For in Romans 7:14, Paul says he is sold under sin; And in Romans 8:2 Paul says he is free from sin. So which is it? Is he free from sin or sold under sin? Are Christians really sold under sin? I don't think so. Jesus came to set the captives free.
You won't convince him, WW. I reckon Jason imagines himself as an Old Testament prophet, thundering his message to heathens like us. He uses criticism, and fashions a badge of honor - as if he's suffering as a great warrior for Christ. Jason's pride will be his downfall. But he's too blind to see it.