Suicide=hell?

Jason0047 · Jul 31, 2015

VCO said:

☝t<><

You obviously only have the Charismatic impression of what we TEACH AND BELIEVE,
whereas you actually understand very little about what the
"Once Saved, Always Saved" Doctrine really teaches.

The Doctrine of "Once Saved, Always Saved", comes DIRECTLY FROM THE TEACHING OF JOHN.
And JOHN said it so simply that ANYONE can understand it.

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us,
they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might
be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

THAT IS ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED.

COUPLE THAT WITH:

John 10:28-30 (NKJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And I give them eternal life,
{It is not ETERNAL if you can lose it.}
and they shall never perish;
{Do you think JESUS lied when HE said NEVER?"}
neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
{ANYONE means not even SELF.}
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and
no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
{NO ONE means not even SELF.}
[SUP]30 [/SUP] I and My Father are one."
{NOT IN PURPOSE, but literally in REALITY.}

CONSIDER ALL THAT AND YOU COME UP WITH ROCK SOLID PROOF
THAT "ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED" IS ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

What is the problem then? Why do so many appear to have lost their Salvation?

The Problem is scalp hunting Preachers, who are EAGER to add more scalps to their belt,
especially among the Charismatics, who have LOWERED the standard to what genuinely
constitutes BEING SAVED.

I cringe every time I hear a TV preacher say:
"Just admit that JESUS is your SAVIOR and you are SAVED."
THAT IS A LIE FROM THE DEVIL. Even the DEMONS admit who He is.

WHAT DOES THE BIBLE REALLY SAY:

John 1:12-13 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become
children of God, to those who believe in His name:
[SUP]13 [/SUP] who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man,
but of God. {That is born again and it has NOTHING to do with tongues.}

RECEIVED HIM AS WHAT?

Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord,
{which means surrender to HIM as MASTER.} continue to live in Him,

HOW DO I VALIDATE THAT THE BIBLE TEACHES and MEANS WE NEED TO
RECEIVE HIM AS LORD, INSTEAD OF JUST SAVIOR?

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord,
{It is not a CONFESSION if you have not already submitted to HIM as LORD,
meaning MASTER, in your heart. IT SAYS CONFESS not just PROFESS.}
and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness,
and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

{NOTICE: THERE is absolutely NO LINK to speaking in tongues nor the watered down false gospel of "just accept Him as SAVIOR", like so many Charismatics and other preachers SAY, especially those on TV. THAT IS A WATERED DOWN GOSPEL THAT DOES NOT SAVE. Submission to HIS LORDSHIP is a work of the HOLY SPIRIT, in that HE enables us to do the will of the FATHER, after HE has birthed our once dead human spirit into ETERNAL LIFE. THEN AND ONLY THEN can you say as a CONFESSION, "JESUS IS MY LORD!"}

THAT IS WHY in this current age, SO MANY APPEAR to lose their SALVATION; when the TRUTH is they followed a watered down GOSPEL that cannot SAVE in the first place. They only PROFESSED to KNOW JESUS; while genuinely "KNOWING HIM" involves an inner personal LOVE relationship where we SUBMIT TO HIM AS MASTER by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT. MANY want a SAVIOR, while remaining "lord" of their own LIVES; BUT ONLY A FEW WANT A LORD WHO IS MASTER OF THEIR LIVES.

Matthew 7:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "Enter through the narrow gate;
for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction,
and there are many who enter through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life,
and there are few who find it.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom
of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
{They have NO submission to HIS LORDSHIP.}
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied
in Your name, cast out demons in Your name,
and done many wonders in Your name?' {That includes charismatic tongues.}
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you;
{That inner personal LOVE relationship where we submit to HIM as LORD,
by the power of the Holy Spirit.}
depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

TOO MANY PREACHERS OF TODAY TEACH A WATERED DOWN GOSPEL.

I apologize if that offends you, but I HAVE TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH.

Let's try this again. Who was Jesus speaking to in Matthew 6:15? It surely cannot be unbelievers (or false professors of the faith who are also unbelievers). If one is an unbeliever, it does not matter how many they forgive. They will still be unsaved. So Jesus is talking to believers; And Jesus said if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven.

gb9 · Jul 31, 2015

Jason0047 said:

you do understand Jesus was speaking of the scribes of his day. note how many other verses refer to the scribes and Pharisees. you do understand this right???

VCO · Jul 31, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Let's try this again. SITTING IN A PEW DOES NOT MAKE YOU A CHRISTIAN, any more than sitting in a Garage would make you a CAR. AT LEAST HALF the people sitting in CHURCH every Sunday are not Saved, they only THINK they are.

Matthew 7:21-27 (NKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:
[SUP]25 [/SUP] and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand:
[SUP]27 [/SUP] and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."

VCO · Jul 31, 2015

VCO said:

I can prove that with Scripture:

Matthew 22:14 (NKJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] For many are called, but few are chosen."

Matthew 7:13-14 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.[SUP]14 [/SUP] Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Matthew 24:40-42 (NKJV)
[SUP]40 [/SUP] Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.
[SUP]41 [/SUP] Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.
[SUP]42 [/SUP] Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.

Luke 17:34-36 (NKJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP] I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left.
[SUP]35 [/SUP] Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left.
[SUP]36 [/SUP] Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left."

Matthew 13:23-30 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty."
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;
[SUP]25 [/SUP] but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
[SUP]28 [/SUP] He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?'
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."

Luke 13:23-24 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

Jesus say it is ONLY a FEW who claim to be following HIM, are genuinely SAVED. It has always been just the few. The vast Majority of the Citizens of this Country claim to be CHRISTIANS, but my BIBLE teaches me that most are deceived by following something less than the TRUE GOSPEL.

Christine1974 · Jul 31, 2015

By reading the exchanges between Jason and VCO I can't really see what y'alls difference is. Is it just me? To be both of y'all are saying not everyone who "acts" like a Christian is saved. And the crazy part is I agree with both of y'all. So what am I missing that's the difference y'all don't agree on?

Christine1974 · Jul 31, 2015

I read Jason's and I mostly agree. Then I read VCO's and mostly.agree. Lol. What is it that makes y'alls opinions that much different?

VCO · Aug 1, 2015

Christine1974 said:

Correct, but Jason does not Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved", therefore he sees:

Matthew 6:15 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

as proof you can LOSE your Salvation, because he thinks it refers to ONLY genuinely Saved Christians; while I do not.

Matthew 22:14 (ESV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For many are called, but few are chosen.”

I see that Mat. 6:15 referring to both the "many are called", who were never were genuinely SAVED, and the "few who are chosen", who HAVE BEEN genuinely SAVED and HAVE RECEIVED ETERNAL LIFE. Those who were truly chosen, were genuinely Saved, therefore because of LOVE FOR HIM, they will KEEP HIS commandments, including forgiving others, and thus they NEVER lose their Salvation, because HE is the one holding on to it. Here are the verses supporting my last statement:

John 10:27-30 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] "I and the Father are one."

Here are the verses that prove that those who were chosen, WILL KEEP His commandments, including forgiving one another:

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

1 John 2:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] This is how we are sure that we have come to know Him: by keeping His commands.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Here is the verse that supports the FACT that those who appear to have lost their Salvation NEVER were Saved in the first place:

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

HENCE, I believe they only appear to have lost their Salvation, when in reality they NEVER WERE SAVED IN THE FIRST PLACE. They settled for an easy believism, FALSE GOSPEL instead; without ever having been born again, having established a genuine, inner personal, LOVE relationship with Jesus Christ, wherein we submit to HIM as LORD, meaning MASTER.

Christine1974 · Aug 1, 2015

Thanks VCO for explaining it to me. It's still a really fine line I think. I know this may seem crazy but I actually agree with both of you. Lol. I remember when I started this thread I said there are scriptures to back up both point of views. I guess it's all about interpretation. Thanks again.

Christine1974 · Aug 1, 2015

Christine1974 said:

Correction,I didn't start this thread. I thought I was on the osas thread. Sorry about that.

WoundedWarrior · Aug 1, 2015

Christine1974 said:

Lol. Jason has a way of injecting his anti-OSAS views into every thread, it seems -- every thread he's active in, that is.

VCO · Aug 1, 2015

Christine1974 said:

I do not think it is a fine line, I think it is the difference between entering the Broad Gate of ONLY receiving Him as Savior; and entering the NARROW GATE of receiving HIM as LORD, which means MASTER.

Those who ONLY want a Savior and not a LORD to rule over their lives, will find that road leads to the destruction of hell.

Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.

How do I know the word "destruction" in verse 13 actually refers to HELL?

Matthew 10:28 (HCSB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Don’t fear those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul; rather, fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Jason0047 · Aug 1, 2015

WoundedWarrior said:

Yes, because it is a teaching that is pure evil that leads men into sin and not holiness. Or haven't you been listening. VCO is saying you can commit suicide and still be saved as a believer. Others in another thread admit they are sinful and yet they are still saved despite their sinfulness. Not sure how you don't see that as a problem unless you have also have turned off your moral compass.

VCO · Aug 1, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Jason, you really need to step back from that Pentecostal FALSE ASSUMPTION about our beliefs, and REALLY READ our posts. You will find out you have believed a LIE about what we genuinely teach and believe, and that LIE has been peddled and repeddled throughout the Pentecostal and Charismatic denominations for DECADES. You are taught those lies through Chick Tracts, so STOP believing comic book lies, and really read our posts.

VCO · Aug 1, 2015

VCO said:

BTW, you are still a sinner saved by GRACE TOO. You too have a SIN NATURE inherited from Adam, as long as you are in this MORTAL body.

Romans 14:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith:
for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Philippians 3:12 (NET)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Not that I have already attained this--that is,
I have not already been perfected--
but I strive to lay hold of that for which I also was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

1 John 3:2 (NKJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed
what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed,
{at the Calling Out of the Bride to go to the Wedding of the LAMB}
we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

Romans 7:25 (NKJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God,
but with the flesh the law of sin.

EVEN PAUL understood there was still sin in his flesh.
SO NO, you are not perfectly holy yet,
but yes if you are a true believer,
you are on the path towards holiness.

Philippians 3:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

resurrection33 · Aug 1, 2015

changedbychrist said:

If you get to know the Lord, you know he doesn't want you to kill yourself.

WoundedWarrior · Aug 2, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Yes, this is exactly what most of us are thinking about you and your posts, Jason.

hind_let_loose · Aug 2, 2015

Do all people who commit suicide go to hell?

This is a difficult question. In general, certainly, they do go to hell.

Scripture says we are saved by hope:

Romans 8:24, "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for wha ta man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"

Yet, there is no act more inconsistent with hope than an act of pure despair -- suicide.

So, suicide generally serves as a very powerful evidence that a person is unsaved.

But there are cases where I wouldn't want to be so quick to judge. And there are other cases where I think suicide is a praiseworthy, Christ-like act.

Borderline case: suppose someone refuses treatment for a "treatable" disease at the end of his or her life because, for instance, she is just exhausted with suffering through medical treatment after medical treatment. Is this a case of suicide? It is certainly a case where she will voluntarily die before the medical state of the art would have her die. And voluntary, premature death is how we usually define suicide. Yet, the death was through a natural cause, too -- e.g., pneumonia, cancer, or something like this. If someone made this selection, I don't think I would be quick to condemn him or her. If nothing else, the ethics of the case are sufficiently murky that it could end up being a non-culpable form of suicide (if it ends up qualifying as suicide at all).

Clearly acceptable case: suppose someone dives on a grenade to save his buddies in a conflict. Or suppose a father runs into a house knowing he'll die in a fire so that he can save his child's life. Etc. In cases like this, a death may be voluntary and premature, but it will be rendered praiseworthy by the fact that it was done out of love for others.

John 15:13, "Greater love hath no man than this: that a man lay down his life for his friends."

Then there are other cases that are tricky, such as cases where genuine mental illness suddenly strikes and the act is completely out of character. Could the problem have been pathological/medical rather than moral? It is hard to say. I'm slow to blame what appear to be moral faults on pathologies. But I'm not 100% positive that it can never happen.

And we know some medications actually lead to a significantly increased risk of suicide. In that case, if someone sins and commits suicide, does the fact that he was innocently taking that medicine (trusting an apparently good doctor, for instance) serve as an extenuating circumstance that God recognizes and is merciful towards? I don't know. I could see it going either way here.

But whatever the case might be, no genuinely converted person will end up in hell, and no unregenerate person (at the time of death) will end up in heaven.

Cheers,
Hind Let Loose

VCO · Aug 2, 2015

hind_let_loose said:

You have NEVER been that depressed have you?

To say for certain that suicide CANNOT BE FORGIVEN, is to call Jesus a Liar:

Mark 3:28-29 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;
[SUP]29 [/SUP] but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"—

ALL SINS obviously includes suicide. DOES THAT PERMIT SIN, NO! ! !

A genuine Christian's life is characterized by continually striving to obey.

A Christian is not sinless, however as he matures spiritually he sins less, and less, and less.

FORGIVENESS IS NOT EARNED, that sin debt was PAID IN FULL on the Cross.

NOT because of what we did, but because of what HE DID on the CROSS nearly 2000 years ago.

YES when we are walking filled with SPIRIT, totally under the control of the Holy Spirit, we will not stumble, not because of what we do, but because of what HE DOES. NO HUMAN BEING can walk FILLED with the SPIRIT 100% of the time.
1 Peter 2:11 (ISV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Dear friends, I urge you as aliens and exiles to keep on abstaining from the desires of the flesh that wage war against the soul.
Matthew 26:41 (ISV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] All of you must stay awake and pray that you won't come into temptation. The spirit is indeed willing, but the flesh is weak."

NOW, once again, WHY IS THE FLESH WEAK? CORRECT, IT HAS A SIN NATURE IN IT. THOSE VERSES ABOVE, imply that stumbling into sin is potentially possible, for every single CHRISTIAN. NO single sin sends you to hell, EXCEPT Blaspheming the work of the HOLY SPIRIT, which first and foremost is to bring us to BELIEVE in and RECEIVE JESUS AS LORD, meaning Master. REJECT THAT and you yourself have sealed your eternal destiny in hell.

1 John 2:3-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] This is how we are sure that we have come to know Him: by keeping His commands.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But whoever keeps His word, truly in him the love of God is perfected. This is how we know we are in Him:

Those verb forms of the word KEEP are in the Greek Perfect tense which implies an ongoing lifestyle of STRIVING TO KEEP, not the perfection of KEEPING it perfectly. And what happen is we fail and stumble into a sin? DO WE GO TO HELL? HAVE WE LOST OUR SALVATION? NO! ! ! WE GET BACK UP, CONFESS THAT SIN, and go back to Striving to KEEP His Commandments.

1 John 1:8-10 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] If we say, “We have no sin,” we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If we say, “We don’t have any sin,” we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Confess is also in the Greek Perfect tense, implying a lifestyle of Confessing every new sin we discover in our lives.

ANYONE WHO THINKS HE NO LONGER 1 Peter 2:13-16 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
[SUP]16 [/SUP] as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. SINS, SERIOUSLY NEEDS TO DO A WHOLE LOT MORE STUDYING ON WHAT ALL GOD CONSIDERS SIN.

A single bad thought for just a second or two, and YOU ARE GUILTY OF BREAKING ALL OF GOD'S LAW.

James 2:10 (NIV)
[SUP]10[/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

STILL DOUBT THAT YOU STILL SIN?

Break the speed limit by one mile per hour, and TECHNICALLY YOU ARE SINNING:

1 Peter 2:13-16 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
[SUP]16 [/SUP] as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.

THAT MEANS 66 mph or higher in a posted ordinance of 65 mph, IS SINNING.

Colossians 2:13 (ASV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And you, being dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, you, I say, did he make alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses; {past, present, and future}

hind_let_loose · Aug 2, 2015

Sure I have. I've wanted to die, too. And if I wasn't a Christian, I probably would have killed myself. But that's irrelevant. But I had confidence in Christ and hope. So I didn't despair completely.

The difficulty with suicide isn't that it is the unpardonable sin. I even discussed cases where a suicide may have been covered by the mercy of Christ. The difficulty is that suicide is, in the most common cases, an act of complete despair. It is what someone does when they have no hope left. And if they have absolutely no hope, then that is evidence that they were never converted in the first place. That's all I'm saying.

Yes, there are possibly cases where a genuinely converted person may commit suicide and end up in heaven. And Christ's righteousness and mercy is sufficient to forgive even suicide in a genuinely converted person. So, in cases where the suicide doesn't reveal an absence of all hope in Christ, then there's a chance it will be covered by the blood of Christ. If the person is a genuine convert, then it will be covered.

But the suicide itself must be consistent with persevering faith. And, generally, I doubt that it is for the reason I've already cited.

VCO · Aug 3, 2015

hind_let_loose said:

Sure I have. I've wanted to die, too. And if I wasn't a Christian, I probably would have killed myself. But that's irrelevant. But I had confidence in Christ and hope. So I didn't despair completely.

The difficulty with suicide isn't that it is the unpardonable sin. I even discussed cases where a suicide may have been covered by the mercy of Christ. The difficulty is that suicide is, in the most common cases, an act of complete despair. It is what someone does when they have no hope left. And if they have absolutely no hope, then that is evidence that they were never converted in the first place. That's all I'm saying.

Yes, there are possibly cases where a genuinely converted person may commit suicide and end up in heaven. And Christ's righteousness and mercy is sufficient to forgive even suicide in a genuinely converted person. So, in cases where the suicide doesn't reveal an absence of all hope in Christ, then there's a chance it will be covered by the blood of Christ. If the person is a genuine convert, then it will be covered.

But the suicide itself must be consistent with persevering faith. And, generally, I doubt that it is for the reason I've already cited.

NO ! ! ! The unpardonable sin is blaspheming the HOLY SPIRIT by rejecting what HE is trying to convince our hearts to BELIEVE about JESUS CHRIST. WHERE on earth did you ever get the idea that suicide was the UNPARDONABLE SIN, CERTAINLY NOT FROM THE BIBLE. Or did I misunderstand you.

Suicide=hell?

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