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Unless God's Sovereign says that he wants man to have free will, then man should not fight against man with free will , for they might fight against God Himself.
Re 22:17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
R
To walk up to someone and say "hey, sorry but you were not elected to be saved, so you cannot come to Christ because he didn't choose you to be saved from the beginning of time" is one of the most WICKED things ever preached behind a pulpit...
God died for ALL....If He already cherry picked before time who would be saved, then it requires that he only died for those "special elect". Because dying for those that were hopelessly lost to begin with would be absurd! You see how twisted this idea is???? He died for every single person that ever lived on this earth! Why did God COMMAND us to preach the gospel then if God already planned certain people to be saved to begin with ? I could play head or tails on each person, not knowing if they were the "chosen ones" before time....I beg you fellow brethren, if you know of anyone who preaches this evil that you expose them...leave churches that preach this filth and lies! This heresy is from the evil one, not the Word of God!
"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:4
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?" Romans 10:13-14
"And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." 2 Corinthians 5:15
Carefully notice 1 Timothy 2:4 is NOT supporting universalism(the idea that all mankind will eventually be saved-because the Word clearly says many will end up in the Lake of fire)
God died for ALL....If He already cherry picked before time who would be saved, then it requires that he only died for those "special elect". Because dying for those that were hopelessly lost to begin with would be absurd! You see how twisted this idea is???? He died for every single person that ever lived on this earth! Why did God COMMAND us to preach the gospel then if God already planned certain people to be saved to begin with ? I could play head or tails on each person, not knowing if they were the "chosen ones" before time....I beg you fellow brethren, if you know of anyone who preaches this evil that you expose them...leave churches that preach this filth and lies! This heresy is from the evil one, not the Word of God!
"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:4
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?" Romans 10:13-14
"And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." 2 Corinthians 5:15
Carefully notice 1 Timothy 2:4 is NOT supporting universalism(the idea that all mankind will eventually be saved-because the Word clearly says many will end up in the Lake of fire)
E
God commands us to proclaim the Gospel. That is reason enough. It is written that God uses the foolishness of preaching to deliver his Gospel (a means of grace). Those who God has determined will be saved, will hear the Gospel (the call), will receive faith (justification) and will remain in Christ (glorification).
N
Amen Roaring, I agree 100%. Scripture states that it is God's will "that no man should perish" but, while God may cal us unto repentance, ultimately the decision to answer that call is up to us individually.
However, both Augustine and John Calvin preached predestination as a foundational truth of OSAS. Both understood that to agree that a man does indeed have free will is to also agree that a man can walk away (backslide) from God after salvation. Basically the same rule we talked about in the above paragraph applies here as well. God loves us and would never abandon us but ultimately the decision to continue to walk in faith is up to us.
You can call it "a work" if you want to however, but your "opinion" doesn't change the fact that man does indeed possess free will...
However, both Augustine and John Calvin preached predestination as a foundational truth of OSAS. Both understood that to agree that a man does indeed have free will is to also agree that a man can walk away (backslide) from God after salvation. Basically the same rule we talked about in the above paragraph applies here as well. God loves us and would never abandon us but ultimately the decision to continue to walk in faith is up to us.
You can call it "a work" if you want to however, but your "opinion" doesn't change the fact that man does indeed possess free will...
re: Rom 8:30,
the only thing which this passage is saying, is that the only thing predestinated or foreknowledged , is that thos who love God should become Christ-like.
It helps to read up a few verses. Note in Rom 8:29, they are being predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, not salvation. That is what the predestination is talking about, not that God would choose or not choose someone to be saved. Throughout scripture, the predestination is always in context of "in Christ" or "in Him", i.e. it is not about God specifically choosing or not choosing to save us. The only thing which God had predestinated was that people would be saved through Christ.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be the First-born among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 But whom He predestinated, these He also called; and whom He called, those He also justified. And whom He justified, these He also glorified.
the only thing which this passage is saying, is that the only thing predestinated or foreknowledged , is that thos who love God should become Christ-like.
It helps to read up a few verses. Note in Rom 8:29, they are being predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, not salvation. That is what the predestination is talking about, not that God would choose or not choose someone to be saved. Throughout scripture, the predestination is always in context of "in Christ" or "in Him", i.e. it is not about God specifically choosing or not choosing to save us. The only thing which God had predestinated was that people would be saved through Christ.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be the First-born among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 But whom He predestinated, these He also called; and whom He called, those He also justified. And whom He justified, these He also glorified.
EconGrad:
It must be all of grace, 'else grace is no more grace', as Paul says in Romans 11.16.
In the 19th Century preachers such as Spurgeon and Nettleton and others preached the Gospel of the grace of God, and their ministries were distinct from those who were (maybe without realizing it in some cases) influenced by the discourse of Jacksonian democracy, whereby the Gospel was regrettably reduced to manipulating people's feelings to cause them supposedly to 'vote' for a candidate.
We need to keep close to the language of Scripture and avoid absorbing fashionable political ideas in our presentation of the Gospel. 'By grace...through faith...not of works', as Paul says in Ephesians 2, is a very profound statement of salvation: the verses which come before and after it are also very instructive.
It must be all of grace, 'else grace is no more grace', as Paul says in Romans 11.16.
In the 19th Century preachers such as Spurgeon and Nettleton and others preached the Gospel of the grace of God, and their ministries were distinct from those who were (maybe without realizing it in some cases) influenced by the discourse of Jacksonian democracy, whereby the Gospel was regrettably reduced to manipulating people's feelings to cause them supposedly to 'vote' for a candidate.
We need to keep close to the language of Scripture and avoid absorbing fashionable political ideas in our presentation of the Gospel. 'By grace...through faith...not of works', as Paul says in Ephesians 2, is a very profound statement of salvation: the verses which come before and after it are also very instructive.
R
Maho,
You are missing a key phrase in the scriptures you posted above. Take a very close look at Romans 8:29 and you will see the answer to the whole Free will and Predestination question.
"For those God foreknew
he also predestined
to be conformed to the likeness of his Son,
that he might be the firstborn
among many brothers."
The key here is "for those God foreknew," this means that because God, being omniscient, knew the heart of all and the decisions they will make, he also predestined us to............. (fill in the blank). Clearly, it is not a matter of God choosing some people to go to hell and some to go to heaven. God, in His sovereignty, knew those who will choose him and those who will reject him.
The word "also" in the verse shows that God's omniscience preceded the predestination. In other words, it is because that God knew the choices we will make that He predestined us to ________ (fill in the blank).
You are missing a key phrase in the scriptures you posted above. Take a very close look at Romans 8:29 and you will see the answer to the whole Free will and Predestination question.
"For those God foreknew
The key here is "for those God foreknew," this means that because God, being omniscient, knew the heart of all and the decisions they will make, he also predestined us to............. (fill in the blank). Clearly, it is not a matter of God choosing some people to go to hell and some to go to heaven. God, in His sovereignty, knew those who will choose him and those who will reject him.
The word "also" in the verse shows that God's omniscience preceded the predestination. In other words, it is because that God knew the choices we will make that He predestined us to ________ (fill in the blank).
hi Rosinksy, thanks for that.. are you disagreeing with me or something? I'm not sure. I don't believe God chooses some to be saved and others not, I think I said that.
I do think the predestination is to be understood with respect to God's overall plan of sending Christ that the whole world would be saved through Him, rather than apersons individual salvatio.
I do think the predestination is to be understood with respect to God's overall plan of sending Christ that the whole world would be saved through Him, rather than apersons individual salvatio.
C
Ah, you did it already, was gonna post it anyway, LOL
The Bible instructs mankind to make righteous decisions by free will,
But some believe there are verses that support the doctrine of "God predestined the fate of all men to eternal life!"
The Scripture teaches that "Your Faith" is a requirement, so, in my faith, I go with the "free will"
If there's any verse, in the Bible, that supports the doctrine of "Your Fate is in Heaven," please do post it here
Trust in Jesus Only!
~Ren
The Bible instructs mankind to make righteous decisions by free will,
But some believe there are verses that support the doctrine of "God predestined the fate of all men to eternal life!"
The Scripture teaches that "Your Faith" is a requirement, so, in my faith, I go with the "free will"
If there's any verse, in the Bible, that supports the doctrine of "Your Fate is in Heaven," please do post it here
Trust in Jesus Only!
~Ren
W
I think the problem is people confuse God knowing every choice every person is going to make with election. The Bible tells us that God knows who is going to be saved or not, the Book of Life, but that doesn't mean each person doesn't still have the choice. We all have free will, even while we are slaves to sin.
Foreknowledge doesn't equal election.
Foreknowledge doesn't equal election.
M
A lot of opinions here but little scripture. "free will' is very relative. Did you choose to be a sinner or were you born a sinner. I hope everyone knows the answer to that one. If not, just tell a 2 year old not to do something. Watch as their sin nature now has to do it. "For the creature was made subject to vanity, NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." Romans 8:20-22. Don't be confused by the word "creature' . Its the same as "creation" in Greek in vs. 22. Obviously the KJV translaters added their pre-existing bias. You are born into sin, therefore, how did you have a choice? Adam had a choice. He didn't have a sin nature. His sin passed on to all men. That is why the "last Adam" (Christ) of Paul's theology had to come. By putting death and sin on the cross it was totally defeated. He became sin for us. Do you think a child raised by a prostitute, abused sexually at an early age with pimps and drug addicts as his or her early environment would truly have a free will equal to a pators' kid? Do you think someone born in Saudi Arabia where its illegal to own bibles and raised by parents who drill Islam in your head from the earliest of ages has the same free will or ability to choose as someone born in the US with a church on every corner? Western Christianity has been brainwashed by the traditions of men. You don't choose Christ just because you fill out a decision card and some preacher has told you "you must make a decision for Christ". "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit," John 15:16. "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him" John 6:44. If this is'nt predestination than what is it? Many are called but few are chosen. Just do a word study on 'chosen' . If you rely on the traditions of men established here in America you will never find the truth. Jesus said the traditions of men make the word of God of no effect (Mark 7:13)
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