Suicide=hell?

[hind_let_loose]

NO ! ! ! The unpardonable sin is blaspheming the HOLY SPIRIT by rejecting what HE is trying to convince our hearts to BELIEVE about JESUS CHRIST. WHERE on earth did you ever the idea that suicide was the UNPARDONABLE SIN, CERTAINLY NOT FROM THE BIBLE.

haha. We're talking past one another. I'm sorry to confuse you. Here's what I said:

"The difficulty with suicide isn't that it is the unpardonable sin. I even discussed cases where a suicide may have been covered by the mercy of Christ."

I said there are cases where suicide may have been covered by Christ's mercy -- so that means I do not believe it is the unpardonable sin. I agree with you on this point.

To make this clear in my previous post, I also said this:

"Yes, there are possibly cases where a genuinely converted person may commit suicide and end up in heaven."

That isn't possible if I believe suicide is the unpardonable sin.

I hope that clarifies things a bit.

 

[VCO]

haha. We're talking past one another. I'm sorry to confuse you. Here's what I said:

"The difficulty with suicide isn't that it is the unpardonable sin. I even discussed cases where a suicide may have been covered by the mercy of Christ."

I said there are cases where suicide may have been covered by Christ's mercy -- so that means I do not believe it is the unpardonable sin. I agree with you on this point.

To make this clear in my previous post, I also said this:

"Yes, there are possibly cases where a genuinely converted person may commit suicide and end up in heaven."

That isn't possible if I believe suicide is the unpardonable sin.

I hope that clarifies things a bit.

Sorry, my confusion, but HEY, I have an excuse, I am getting old. Your day is coming if the Lord, tarries.

 

[Steve47]

They go by the verse, He who lives his live for my sake shall gain it and he who lives his for his own shall lose it. Clearly out of context. I have studied many years, and I believe that "All who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved .... none shall pluck them out of my Father hand"..... In recent years, I have come to recognize the story of the Prodigal Son to be one of the most Beautiful stories in the Bible. The son, having rejected his fathers house and ways, left to do it on his own, and ended up destitute and hungry in a pig stye. That is the lowest a "Jew" could sink -- covered with mud and pig excrement he went back home in hope of being a servant. But his Father "watching from afar" (God is watching) "Ran to meet his son" and "hugged and kissed him" (covered in mud and excrement) and "put a robe on his shoulder, sandals on his feet, and a ring on his finger, and ordered a great fest/party" God is not waiting to judge you for the sins you have committed, "He is watching from afar, and will hug and kiss us when we return, and put a robe on righteous on our shoulders and sandals on our feet and a ring on our finger, and set us at the feast". I don't know about the other people, but that is the God I serve, the same God that sacrificed his son so that I might take on the mantle of his righteousness. You are righteous through Christ, he has paid for your sins.

 

[hind_let_loose]

Sorry, my confusion, but HEY, I have an excuse, I am getting old. Your day is coming if the Lord, tarries.

It happens. Not a problem!

 

[WoundedWarrior]

Not sure how you don't see that as a problem unless you have also have turned off your moral compass.

Instead of resorting to personal insults, perhaps you could consider an attempt at understanding our point(s) of view. My observation is that you hear without listening -- in other words, it seems you have repeatedly understood issues within our posts that are simply not there.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

First, I like to know what exactly I have said that makes my approach so wrong. For if I had said something wrong, I would like to see specific post #'s and quotes in what I said (of which you think condemns me). Then I will be more than happy to discuss if it was wrong or not by way of the Bible and by way of using real world examples. For I am not a Terminator. I can actually be reasoned with (as long as you are fair, honest, and make sense). Second, in my experience, those who focus a laser beam on some unknown problem(s) in what I say and ignore the actual point of topic looks like a diversion tactic to me so as not to discuss the real issue (Which is the Scriptures).

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/118917-what-gospel-9.html#post2206922

Just re-read the thread.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

Jesus said beware of the scribes.

Titus 1:6-9 ESV


If anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

1 Timothy 5:1 ESV


Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers,



Romans 1:20-22 New International Version (NIV)


20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.


21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools

 

[VCO]

They go by the verse, He who lives his live for my sake shall gain it and he who lives his for his own shall lose it. Clearly out of context. I have studied many years, and I believe that "All who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved .... none shall pluck them out of my Father hand"..... In recent years, I have come to recognize the story of the Prodigal Son to be one of the most Beautiful stories in the Bible. The son, having rejected his fathers house and ways, left to do it on his own, and ended up destitute and hungry in a pig stye. That is the lowest a "Jew" could sink -- covered with mud and pig excrement he went back home in hope of being a servant. But his Father "watching from afar" (God is watching) "Ran to meet his son" and "hugged and kissed him" (covered in mud and excrement) and "put a robe on his shoulder, sandals on his feet, and a ring on his finger, and ordered a great fest/party" God is not waiting to judge you for the sins you have committed, "He is watching from afar, and will hug and kiss us when we return, and put a robe on righteous on our shoulders and sandals on our feet and a ring on our finger, and set us at the feast". I don't know about the other people, but that is the God I serve, the same God that sacrificed his son so that I might take on the mantle of his righteousness. You are righteous through Christ, he has paid for your sins.

VERY GOOD POINT! And not even the stupid, utterly sinful act of Suicide, could separate us from the FATHER's LOVE.

What can we lose, since we CANNOT LOSE SALVATION?
We can LOSE heavenly Rewards.
We can LOSE crowns.
I think, we can LOSE even these:
We can LOSE servant positions in Heaven. {Would you rather be a teacher of those born in the Kingdom, or on permanent KP washing the pots and pans.}
We can LOSE where we stand, or sit at the table. {Would you rather be on the front row at the 50 yard line, or WAY UP in the corner of the stadium behind a post.}

BUT NO, YOU CANNOT LOSE YOUR SALVATION, BECAUSE JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE HOLDING IT IN THEIR HANDS.

Granted when we are walking filled with the Spirit, that thought of Suicide will NEVER enter our minds. But NO HUMAN BEING can stay filled with the Spirit 100% of the time; NOT EVEN PAUL. And only at moments when we are NOT filled with the Holy Spirit, can sin's temptation lure us in.

Romans 7:14-25 (ESV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

 

[Jason0047]

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/118917-what-gospel-9.html#post2206922

Just re-read the thread.

Good News:

If you have never truly accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior by repenting of your sins, or if you are living in unrepentant sin, and you feel lost and trapped; Well, I am here to tell you that there is good news and that there is hope for you. For what must you truly believe to be saved according to the Bible? What must you believe to have that real relationship with Christ that brings love, peace, and true assurance of salvation? Well, please check out the following verses below.​

What must you believe to be saved?

#1. Admit Your A Sinner:

Romans 3:10-12
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."


Romans 3:23
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"



2. Realize that there is a Judgment or Consequence of your Sin:

Hebrews 9:27
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"


Revelation 20:12
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."


Revelation 21:8
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."


Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."



#3. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day…"


John 3:16-17

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."


Romans 5:8
"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."


1 Peter 2:24
"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."


Isaiah 53:5
"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."


2 Corinthians 5:21
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."


1 Corinthians 15:22
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."


Romans 5:17-18
"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."


Ephesians 1:7
"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;"


Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast."




#4. Call Upon the Name of the Lord:

Romans 10:13
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."



#5. Repent of Your Sins:

Matthew 4:17
"Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."


Luke 13:3
"…Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."


2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."


1 John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

1 John 1:7
"If we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas;

Jonah 3:5, 10.
(v) 5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, (v) 10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.




#6. Confess With Your Mouth the Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 10:9
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."



#7. Endure in Your Faith to the End:

Matthew 10:22
"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

 

[VCO]

Jesus said beware of the scribes.

He also said narrow is the way and FEW be there that find it.

Also, do you know how to explain the contradiction of Romans 7:14 and Romans 8:2 that arises because of your belief?

Are we free from sin?

Or are we sold under sin?

And Jason, when you think you are already Holy, then you are acting exactly like a modern day Pharisee, who has lowered the standards of GOD to something that is humanly possible to KEEP.

It has NOT set you free in the FLESH, but it is the born again HUMAN SPIRIT that has been set free, and that DOES NOT remove that inherited sin nature from the body. THAT freedom, allows you to yield to the HOLY SPIRIT, that COMPLETE control of your body, which does make it possible to WALK in the Spirit without sinning for a time, BUT NO ONE, can STAY 100% filled with, (Under the total Control of), the Spirit at all times. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE between Romans 7:14 and Romans 8:2, when you are filled with the SPIRIT, Rom. 8:2 applies, and when you are not, Rom. 7:14 certainly applies.

NO, you are NOT already HOLY, and NO you have not stopped sinning. Like I already already told you, every time you break the posted speed limit, even by accident, YOU ARE SINNING. So you can now get down off your man-made pedestal and come back to reality with the rest of us SINNERS, SAVED BY GRACE.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

Good News:

If you have never truly accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior by repenting of your sins, or if you are living in unrepentant sin, and you feel lost and trapped; Well, I am here to tell you that there is good news and that there is hope for you. For what must you truly believe to be saved according to the Bible? What must you believe to have that real relationship with Christ that brings love, peace, and true assurance of salvation? Well, please check out the following verses below.​

What must you believe to be saved?

#1. Admit Your A Sinner:

Romans 3:10-12
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."


Romans 3:23
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"



2. Realize that there is a Judgment or Consequence of your Sin:

Hebrews 9:27
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"


Revelation 20:12
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."


Revelation 21:8
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."


Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."



#3. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day…"


John 3:16-17

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."


Romans 5:8
"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."


1 Peter 2:24
"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."


Isaiah 53:5
"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."


2 Corinthians 5:21
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."


1 Corinthians 15:22
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."


Romans 5:17-18
"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."


Ephesians 1:7
"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;"


Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast."




#4. Call Upon the Name of the Lord:

Romans 10:13
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."



#5. Repent of Your Sins:

Matthew 4:17
"Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."


Luke 13:3
"…Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."


2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."


1 John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

1 John 1:7
"If we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas;

Jonah 3:5, 10.
(v) 5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, (v) 10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.




#6. Confess With Your Mouth the Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 10:9
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."



#7. Endure in Your Faith to the End:

Matthew 10:22
"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Yes, Jason, I know that it is difficult for you to see anything other than what you have posted, but look again -- others are there, including one of my first posts on CC forums, to which your response was: "Most Christians are wrong for believing that Romans chapter 7 is talking about Paul struggling with sin as a Christian."

A gift (salvation) which requires a doctorate degree in theology to understand and accept, is not a gift. I think you're digging too deep, looking for ideas that are not intended.

 

[VCO]

Good News:

If you have never truly accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior by repenting of your sins, or if you are living in unrepentant sin, and you feel lost and trapped; Well, I am here to tell you that there is good news and that there is hope for you. For what must you truly believe to be saved according to the Bible? What must you believe to have that real relationship with Christ that brings love, peace, and true assurance of salvation? Well, please check out the following verses below.​

What must you believe to be saved?

#1. Admit Your A Sinner:

Romans 3:10-12
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."


Romans 3:23
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"



2. Realize that there is a Judgment or Consequence of your Sin:

Hebrews 9:27
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"


Revelation 20:12
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."


Revelation 21:8
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."


Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."



#3. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day…"


John 3:16-17

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."


Romans 5:8
"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."


1 Peter 2:24
"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."


Isaiah 53:5
"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."


2 Corinthians 5:21
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."


1 Corinthians 15:22
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."


Romans 5:17-18
"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."


Ephesians 1:7
"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;"


Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast."




#4. Call Upon the Name of the Lord:

Romans 10:13
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."



#5. Repent of Your Sins:

Matthew 4:17
"Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."


Luke 13:3
"…Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."


2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."


1 John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

1 John 1:7
"If we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas;

Jonah 3:5, 10.
(v) 5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, (v) 10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.




#6. Confess With Your Mouth the Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 10:9
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."



#7. Endure in Your Faith to the End:

Matthew 10:22
"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

There you go, but you USED ONE WRONG WORD, that is typical of the Easy-Believism watered down FALSE GOSPEL. You told people to receive Him as SAVIOR. The Bible does NOT tell us to received HIM as SAVIOR, it tells us to CONFESS HIM AS LORD and LORD means MASTER.

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

THE WORD LORD MEANS MASTER, WE DARE NOT LEAVE THAT PART OUT. The whole world just about wants some kind of Savior; but very few want a LORD who is MASTER of their lives.

A Confession is telling the truth about SOMETHING THAT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. If you say Jesus is my LORD, and you have NEVER actually received HIM in your heart as Lord, which means MASTER; then it is NOT a CONFESSION, it is ONLY a Profession, and ONLY a Profession, DOES NOT SAVE.

Matthew 7:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21[/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. {SUBMITS TO HIM AS MASTER}

1 John 2:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; {does not submit to Him as Master}

John 14:15 (NRSV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "If you love me, you will keep my commandments. {will submit to Him as Master}


I do not think that any godly preacher deliberately waters down the gospel by saying JUST RECEIVE JESUS AS SAVIOUR; but in effect that is exactly what they are doing. They are JUST NOT REALLY THINKING EVERYTHING THROUGH. Clearly the BIBLE SAYS we are to Receive JESUS as LORD, and then after we Confess that, HE becomes our Savior. Ref. Rom. 10:9-10 above.

NO, THAT IS NOT WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS, because no one can do that without the Holy Spirit being in them empowering them to do it.

 

[VCO]

Instead of resorting to personal insults, perhaps you could consider an attempt at understanding our point(s) of view. My observation is that you hear without listening -- in other words, it seems you have repeatedly understood issues within our posts that are simply not there.

He hears only what he wants to hear, and completely tunes out everything else; how sad.

 

[Jason0047]

This is very simple. Sin is separation from God if you refuse to confess and forsake sin. If you believe you can die in unrepentant sin and still be saved then you are preaching a false gospel. If you believe you can be out of fellowship and be saved, then you are preaching a false gospel. If you believe you can never stop sinning, you are preaching a false gospel. Jesus said to the woman caught in the act of adultery to sin no more. For saying you will alway sin is making an excuse for sin.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

If you believe you can die in unrepentant sin and still be saved then you are preaching a false gospel.

So the preacher, who had a sinful thought just before dying in a car crash on the way to church, is not saved?

 

[Jason0047]

So the preacher, who had a sinful thought just before dying in a car crash on the way to church, is not saved?

God is outside of linear time and would know if the preacher was willing to repent of such a sin or not. So if anyone dies in unrepentant sin that is really bad then it is a judgment from God upon them. For Ananais and Sapphira did not go to Heaven. When fear falls upon a church and all who hear it that is not the good fruit that we would expect for people going to Heaven.

 

[Jason0047]

For if God let someone who died in unrepenant sin (that leads unto death) into Heaven, then that would speak badly against God's character because God cannot condone or approve of sin because God is Holy, good, and loving.

 

[Jason0047]

God is outside of linear time and would know if the preacher was willing to repent of such a sin or not. So if anyone dies in unrepentant sin that is really bad then it is a judgment from God upon them. For Ananais and Sapphira did not go to Heaven. When fear falls upon a church and all who hear it that is not the good fruit that we would expect for people going to Heaven.

Edit:

Sorry, did not mean to say "good fruit" but I meant to say "good and natural things that come from other believers when one of the their own dies." God's people would be sorrowful over their friend's death in the fact that they would miss him. They would also be at peace and take comfort that they were in Heaven. But they would not experience fear.

 

[Jason0047]

VERY GOOD POINT! And not even the stupid, utterly sinful act of Suicide, could separate us from the FATHER's LOVE.

What can we lose, since we CANNOT LOSE SALVATION?
We can LOSE heavenly Rewards.
We can LOSE crowns.
I think, we can LOSE even these:
We can LOSE servant positions in Heaven. {Would you rather be a teacher of those born in the Kingdom, or on permanent KP washing the pots and pans.}
We can LOSE where we stand, or sit at the table. {Would you rather be on the front row at the 50 yard line, or WAY UP in the corner of the stadium behind a post.}

BUT NO, YOU CANNOT LOSE YOUR SALVATION, BECAUSE JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE HOLDING IT IN THEIR HANDS.

Granted when we are walking filled with the Spirit, that thought of Suicide will NEVER enter our minds. But NO HUMAN BEING can stay filled with the Spirit 100% of the time; NOT EVEN PAUL. And only at moments when we are NOT filled with the Holy Spirit, can sin's temptation lure us in.

Romans 7:14-25 (ESV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

Well, here is a list of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith.

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation, but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

• Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)

• Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)

• The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)

• Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)

• Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

• Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

• Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)

• Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14, 15)

• Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8, 9, 10)

• Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11)

• Balaam (Numbers chapters 22, 23, 24) (Numbers 31:8) (Joshua 13:22) (Jude 1:11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

• The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45, 46)

• Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)

• The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14, 15)

• Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)

• Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)

• Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5, 6)

• Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)

• Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)

• Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7, 8)

• The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
  (James 5:19, 20)

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).

 

[BradC]

Well, here is a list of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith.

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation, but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

• Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)

• Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)

• The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)

• Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)

• Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

• Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

• Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)

• Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14, 15)

• Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8, 9, 10)

• Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11)

• Balaam (Numbers chapters 22, 23, 24) (Numbers 31:8) (Joshua 13:22) (Jude 1:11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

• The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45, 46)

• Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)

• The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14, 15)

• Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)

• Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)

• Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5, 6)

• Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)

• Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)

• Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7, 8)

• The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
  (James 5:19, 20)

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).

Salvation from God that was obtained for us by Jesus Christ can not be forfeited. However, the blessing and rewards that accompany salvation through a labor of love can be forfeited (Heb 6:9,10).