For those who say they were saved before they spoke in tongues....

[convallaria]

you have no biblical basis for stating a person is not saved if they do not speak in tongues...your proof texts as per your op do not say what you are trying to make them say

what about all the other gifts? if we don't exhibit any, does that mean we are not saved?

if a person only prays in tongues and does not speak and interpret in church, then they are not building up the body, they are building up themself in the spirit which is fine, but where is their gift if they can only speak in tongues?

what you are saying can be understood as enthusiasm, but it is not universally applicable and does not line up with the Bible

I would think saint-john was expecting you to know this:
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


Tongues is evidence that the Spirit of Christ is in someone. There is other evidence obviously but tongues is a great example because it is an outward sign, which we need.

The next part of the verse is, "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." This is saying as clearly as possible that if we do not have the Spirit of God we do not belong to Him. At all. When we are born again we receive His Holy Spirit, and He alone distinguishes us from those who are born of the flesh. If we are born of the flesh we will perish with all other flesh. If we are born of the Spirit we will have our continuance to eternity with the Lord, provided we abide in Him, as He commands.

I keep saying that there are DIVERSE tongue gifts as follows:

1 Cor 12 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

So one other example of a gift of tongues is for intercession, which is done mainly privately, and through which the Lord will involve us in prayer on another's behalf. The main use for this gift is for the one who needs prayer which means its principal purpose is not to build us up (edify us) spiritually....however the effect upon us is the same....when we speak any tongue gift it edifies us spiritually. making us more solidly faithful...and it never puffs us up.

The bottom line is, as Jesus commands, ye must be born again. If you are not born again you do not have the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, therefore you are none of His.

BTW what SJ says does line up with the Bible pretty much totally in that it is obvious he speaks in tongues and has that experience and outward sign of the Holy Spirit to concur with the Word of God. His use of words to explain what he means is just a bit clumsy sometimes, but none of us is perfect.

One other evidence is the personal impact of the word of God, as opposed to a merely intellectual acceptance. If you have ever had that experience of God speaking to you personally in His word it is a personal encouragement in the Holy Spirit. People without the Holy Spirit have not entered into that communication with the Lord.

As far as other gifts, we all have to explore by faith what God is giving us. There is never any place to boast because if we have received it, it wasn't ours to boast about in the first place. But some things are harder to identify, like a word of wisdom. If you hear yourself saying something in a situation that completely cuts through all human logic in its solid observable practical truth, and you know it wasn't your own human logic, that is a word of wisdom.

I totally identify with SJ's position and I can reassure you it is not just enthusiasm. That the gifts of God are universally applicable is pretty much the sense of the above passage in the body of Christ, but not outside of it. If you are born again of the Spirit of God, have no fear, you have gifts, some of them you have not yet discovered!

 

[convallaria]

You are a misguided man who does not rightly divide the word of God. But even though, my response was an insult and I should not have let satan have my tongue for that moment! I apologize to you and everyone who sees this! I am the child of the Almighty God Jesus Christ! This is NOT who I am when I walk in the spirit but it is who I was before God saved me and what I came from! I Stand! In the name of Jesus Christ I take my rightful place back as the one who has put all malice and hateful thoughts down! I stand! I stand in the gap for you . I pray that you seek the Lord to know his truths written in his word and not the lies of the one who comes as an angel of light to lie to you and get you off track. By the grace of our King Jesus Christ the Lamb of God I pray you are taught by the Holy Spirit. The Lord rebuke the spirit behind your error! In the name of Jesus I pray . I will STAND. Amen!

That wasn't an apology, it was a means to further insult a man who understands something that you don't. You start with "You are a misguided man who does not rightly divide the word of God." going on to say.......
"In the name of Jesus Christ I take my rightful place back as the one who has put all malice and hateful thoughts down!"
....and further insulting him by pridefully asserting your (false) spiritual authority. An apology is heartfelt remorse over something you did wrong. Why apologize if by your own actions you clearly think you did right? That is mocking God.

Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 

[LT]

I would think saint-john was expecting you to know this:
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


Tongues is evidence that the Spirit of Christ is in someone. There is other evidence obviously but tongues is a great example because it is an outward sign, which we need.

The next part of the verse is, "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." This is saying as clearly as possible that if we do not have the Spirit of God we do not belong to Him. At all. When we are born again we receive His Holy Spirit, and He alone distinguishes us from those who are born of the flesh. If we are born of the flesh we will perish with all other flesh. If we are born of the Spirit we will have our continuance to eternity with the Lord, provided we abide in Him, as He commands.

I keep saying that there are DIVERSE tongue gifts as follows:

1 Cor 12 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

So one other example of a gift of tongues is for intercession, which is done mainly privately, and through which the Lord will involve us in prayer on another's behalf. The main use for this gift is for the one who needs prayer which means its principal purpose is not to build us up (edify us) spiritually....however the effect upon us is the same....when we speak any tongue gift it edifies us spiritually. making us more solidly faithful...and it never puffs us up.

The bottom line is, as Jesus commands, ye must be born again. If you are not born again you do not have the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, therefore you are none of His.

BTW what SJ says does line up with the Bible pretty much totally in that it is obvious he speaks in tongues and has that experience and outward sign of the Holy Spirit to concur with the Word of God. His use of words to explain what he means is just a bit clumsy sometimes, but none of us is perfect.

One other evidence is the personal impact of the word of God, as opposed to a merely intellectual acceptance. If you have ever had that experience of God speaking to you personally in His word it is a personal encouragement in the Holy Spirit. People without the Holy Spirit have not entered into that communication with the Lord.

As far as other gifts, we all have to explore by faith what God is giving us. There is never any place to boast because if we have received it, it wasn't ours to boast about in the first place. But some things are harder to identify, like a word of wisdom. If you hear yourself saying something in a situation that completely cuts through all human logic in its solid observable practical truth, and you know it wasn't your own human logic, that is a word of wisdom.

I totally identify with SJ's position and I can reassure you it is not just enthusiasm. That the gifts of God are universally applicable is pretty much the sense of the above passage in the body of Christ, but not outside of it. If you are born again of the Spirit of God, have no fear, you have gifts, some of them you have not yet discovered!

WHO TOLD you that tongues is the sign of a person having the Spirit, and WHY on earth did you believe them?
That nonsense is not in the Bible, but made up garbage.
It is sickening.

All these poor souls... faking gibberish just to feel like they are acceptable before God. I can't think of this without spitting upon the ground.

 

[LT]

Having the Spirit,
working through the Spirit,
being moved by the Spirit,
being filled with the Spirit,

These all occur in the Scripture WITHOUT tongues mentioned!
Tongues is a sign to unbelievers. It is not the sign OF a Believer, or a necessary sign of a Believer having received the Spirit.

 

[LT]

It is a wicked and adulterous generation that chooses to follow and defend 'signs' over Truth.

Nearly 2000 years of Spirit-filled Believers have come before us, and yet only within the past 50 years has 'tongues' been considered a needed occurrence for a Believer to be saved/obtain the Spirit.

Were NONE saved before modern times?! Sick and twisted lies of Satan!

Reject this false teaching. We all fall into error at times. Do not be too proud to conform to Truth.

 

[posthuman]

ישו הוא ישועה , לא דיבור מבולבל .

​

 

[Magenta]

ישו הוא ישועה , לא דיבור מבולבל .

آمين، ومرة أخرى أقول لكم، آمين!

 

[blondieindahouse]

That wasn't an apology, it was a means to further insult a man who understands something that you don't. You start with "You are a misguided man who does not rightly divide the word of God." going on to say.......
"In the name of Jesus Christ I take my rightful place back as the one who has put all malice and hateful thoughts down!"
....and further insulting him by pridefully asserting your (false) spiritual authority. An apology is heartfelt remorse over something you did wrong. Why apologize if by your own actions you clearly think you did right? That is mocking God.

Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

"That wasn't an apology, it was a means to further insult a man who understands something that you don't."

It was an apology for the words I used.
If you consider truth as insult so be it. If you determine his point of view biblically correct concerning tongues > where he stated that if one does not have tongues then therefore one is not saved; you are not rightly dividing the word either! You are also sadly misguided.
It was a sincere apology and the other part you commented on was me taking back my authority over the enemy who roams around to kill,steal, and destroy!
There was no pride in my truth statement nor my prayer. You have just bear false witness against me twice.
I did not mock God but you just did!

Have a nice day

 

[posthuman]

As per the word of God..

Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

amen! and the Spirit is the seal of salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14)

but i notice when Paul describes the 'fruit (singular) of the Spirit' in Galatians (5:22), speaking in tongues is not listed.

so what did Jesus say?

By this everyone will know that you are my disciples,
if you love one another.
(John 13:35)
​

and what did His apostle to us say about tongues, and love, and which is principle?

If I speak human or angelic languages
but do not have love,
I am a sounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
(1 Corinthians 13:1)
​

well there we have it.
and we love because He first loved us (1 John 4:19)
and love is of God. this perfect love is from the Spirit.

God is not a God of confusion but of peace,
as in all the churches of the saints.
(1 Corinthians 14:33)
​

 

[LT]

amen! and the Spirit is the seal of salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14)

but i notice when Paul describes the 'fruit (singular) of the Spirit' in Galatians (5:22), speaking in tongues is not listed.

so what did Jesus say?

By this everyone will know that you are my disciples,
if you love one another.
(John 13:35)
​

and what did His apostle to us say about tongues, and love, and which is principle?

If I speak human or angelic languages
but do not have love,
I am a sounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
(1 Corinthians 13:1)
​

well there we have it.
and we love because He first loved us (1 John 4:19)
and love is of God. this perfect love is from the Spirit.

God is not a God of confusion but of peace,
as in all the churches of the saints.
(1 Corinthians 14:33)
​

Yes. Their primary assumption is that 'having the Spirit' is the same as 'speaking in tongues'.
The debate will not go anywhere if they can't let go of that false assumption.

They have been lied to since they were saved, perhaps even before, just like I was.
It is difficult to question things that were taught to us in the infancy of our Faith,
even if they have no bearing in Scripture,
and especially if we have emotional experiences attached to them.

 

[convallaria]

WHO TOLD you that tongues is the sign of a person having the Spirit, and WHY on earth did you believe them?
That nonsense is not in the Bible, but made up garbage.
It is sickening.

All these poor souls... faking gibberish just to feel like they are acceptable before God. I can't think of this without spitting upon the ground.

Mark 16:
[SUP]17[/SUP] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

You have to get born again, and read your Bible or you will never see it. Many many references to tongues in the NT as a gift of the Spirit.

 

[convallaria]

It is a wicked and adulterous generation that chooses to follow and defend 'signs' over Truth.

Nearly 2000 years of Spirit-filled Believers have come before us, and yet only within the past 50 years has 'tongues' been considered a needed occurrence for a Believer to be saved/obtain the Spirit.

Were NONE saved before modern times?! Sick and twisted lies of Satan!

Reject this false teaching. We all fall into error at times. Do not be too proud to conform to Truth.

Thankfully you are still young and hopefully have years ahead of you to repent, and to learn. Your disrespectful attitude and blatant ignorance of the Word of God are things you can put right. But please do so soon, there may not be much time left.

 

[convallaria]

"That wasn't an apology, it was a means to further insult a man who understands something that you don't."

It was an apology for the words I used.
If you consider truth as insult so be it. If you determine his point of view biblically correct concerning tongues > where he stated that if one does not have tongues then therefore one is not saved; you are not rightly dividing the word either! You are also sadly misguided.
It was a sincere apology and the other part you commented on was me taking back my authority over the enemy who roams around to kill,steal, and destroy!
There was no pride in my truth statement nor my prayer. You have just bear false witness against me twice.
I did not mock God but you just did!

Have a nice day

Have it your own way!

 

[psychomom]

Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.

But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills. (1 Cor 12:4-11)


Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? But earnestly desire the greater gifts.
And I show you a still more excellent way.(1 Cor 12:27-31)

idk... seems pretty clear

 

[psychomom]

oh...

what i meant was the people being spoken of in the above verses are already Christ's Body.
already part of the Church before the Spirit distributed gifts.

 

[ladylynn]

I was saved in 1981 but did not speak in tongues till 2015. Since that's OK with God than it's OK with me.

 

[posthuman]

Mark 16:
[SUP]17[/SUP] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

You have to get born again, and read your Bible or you will never see it. Many many references to tongues in the NT as a gift of the Spirit.

so tell me about the demons you've cast out .. ? are you just as fervent that all must cast out demons?

you need to read your Bible too:

Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?
(1 Corinthians 12:29-30)
​

we don't get to just pull a few verses out and ignore the rest of them.
we don't all have the same calling or the same gifts.

how many times can this be explained???

 

[Standing]

Mr 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Mr 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;.............(not those who dont)

Yes That is biblical.
And it does not mean that believers who do not speak in tongues dont have the Holy Spirit...as referred to in Acts 2:4.....and began to speak with other tongues as the Holy Spirit gave them utterance.

Those believers who do not yet speak in tongues have not been given this 'utterance' yet, that is all.
Later on in Ephesus...Paul had to lay his hand on a 'baptised by John' believers shoulder and say the words I baptise you with the Holy Spirit, before the believer could speak in tongues.

And elsewhere, and in one of your bible quotes above. (Mark 16:17&18) these signs shall follow....the key word here is 'signs' being plural, and from a multiple list....it may be that some have the ability to cast out demons, and not be poisoned and not die from a snake bite, but have not yet been given the 'utterance ' from this list.

There is nothing to say that a believer (who is definitely saved), and has the indwelling Holy Spirit) must display ALL of these signs. Be pretty perfect to be able to have them all ...and all at once...however, it is up to the Holy Spirit to give this, and when He does we should just receive these blessings, and with joy...because they ARE signs...all of them.
One day we will all be perfect like our Saviour Jesus Christ.

And I suppose from all of that, if we meet a brother or sister in Christ who can't yet speak in tongues, then we could use Pauls example and put our hand on their shoulder and pray for them to receive ALL the gifts of the Holy Spirit...but they dont have to! Same with the casting out demons etc...pray and pass on ALL the gifts you currently display...Lets not just pick on this one gift ay.

It is truly awesome to speak to God directly from your heart, bypassing the brain...it is something to get excited about...not a gift to shun.
It is truly awesome to cast out demons too.....

i pray in Jesus name, that everyone on this site will have no fear, and fully receive the gift of tongues and the gift of casting out demons...from their indwelling Holy Spirit - at least ask for it Father, and that you will deliver the gift of this utterance, and the gift of casting out demons, from Your Holy Spirit. Receive Receive Receive. Amen

Thankyou Father for all Your gifts, and thankyou that we can be fully equipped to walk as Jesus walked, with the love of God, and brotherly kindness in our hearts.

 

[posthuman]

Those believers who do not yet speak in tongues
. . .
have not yet been given the 'utterance ' from this list.
. . .
a brother or sister in Christ who can't yet speak in tongues

i like a lot of what you wrote there, but i don't get why you go on as though speaking in tongues is a necessary end and a foregone conclusion?

as for tongues, they will cease
(1 Corinthians 13:8)​

from what i understand, the scriptures do not say everyone will eventually speak in tongues.
in fact it says pretty much the opposite.

so why .. ?

​

 

[Standing]

i like a lot of what you wrote there, but i don't get why you go on as though speaking in tongues is a necessary end and a foregone conclusion?

as for tongues, they will cease
(1 Corinthians 13:8)​

from what i understand, the scriptures do not say everyone will eventually speak in tongues.
in fact it says pretty much the opposite.

so why .. ?

​

hmmm that is a good question.
And here is my answer

After reading through all the posts here, the Holy Spirit in me was disturbed at the number of believers who flatly refuse and ridicule this awesome gift from God.
The YET was to put there to encourage them to seek this gift, rather than cast it aside or trash it.

It is correct that not all believers will get all the gifts...and I have said this in my post above there.
Formerly, I had told God that I did not want the gift of tongues...but then my friend prayed and imparted her gift onto me, as Paul did to the believer.....I was so glad that I now had this awesome gift.

An encouragement...to be open to this gift, rather than shut to it, or mocking it

God bless you