For Those Who Deny Eternal Security

[BenFTW]

This free pdf e-book, answers the objections made by those who deny eternal security. It also addresses all of the Scriptures they use to try and disprove OSAS.

It's worth the time to read.

https://gracethrufaith.com/assets/uploads/2014/07/OSAS-Anthology-ebook.pdf

I was giving it a read but stopped once he started with the broken fellowship and sin confession jargon. Man, I thought he was going to be a good grace preacher from the stuff you were posting from him but how he can speak such grace and still hold to sin confession is beyond me. For example, to say that our fellowship is broken when we sin yet the Lord says He will never forsake us. The Word says that if our hearts condemn us not then we have confidence towards God. If we feel when we sin we alienate ourselves from the Lord we do not have confidence towards him. Why would our sin that He doesn't remember and is as white as snow separate us from Him?

I mean, even consider Adam and Eve. They sinned and they hid from God. Yet what did the Lord do? He sought them out. They alienated themselves from the Lord, not the Lord from them. Of course later he cast them out but that was for their own good so as to not be eternally separated from Him because of their sin. All along He has desired for man to be in His presence. Our sin is no longer a barrier to Him as the veil has been broken. Our sin taken away by Christ and washed in His blood through His sacrifice. If our sins alienated us from Him, how could we be the temple of the Holy Spirit? How could He even reside in us, if our sins alienated us from him?

Anyways, that was a little disappointing... thought it was going to be a good read.

 

[Budman]

I was giving it a read but stopped once he started with the broken fellowship and sin confession jargon. Man, I thought he was going to be a good grace preacher from the stuff you were posting from him but how he can speak such grace and still hold to sin confession is beyond me. For example, to say that our fellowship is broken when we sin yet the Lord says He will never forsake us. The Word says that if our hearts condemn us not then we have confidence towards God. If we feel when we sin we alienate ourselves from the Lord we do not have confidence towards him. Why would our sin that He doesn't remember and is as white as snow separate us from Him?

I mean, even consider Adam and Eve. They sinned and they hid from God. Yet what did the Lord do? He sought them out. They alienated themselves from the Lord, not the Lord from them. Of course later he cast them out but that was for their own good so as to not be eternally separated from Him because of their sin. All along He has desired for man to be in His presence. Our sin is no longer a barrier to Him as the veil has been broken. Our sin taken away by Christ and washed in His blood through His sacrifice. If our sins alienated us from Him, how could we be the temple of the Holy Spirit? How could He even reside in us, if our sins alienated us from him?

Anyways, that was a little disappointing... thought it was going to be a good read.

Aside from the Bible, there was only one book I totally agreed with. It's called "Classic Christianity" by Bob George.

The main reason why I posted the book is it addresses most of the Scriptures used by those who deny eternal security.

For the record, I also do not believe our fellowship with God is broken when we sin. I do, however, believe that God indeed chastens His children who are in continual disobedience - as any good parent would.

 

[BenFTW]

Aside from the Bible, there was only one book I totally agreed with. It's called "Classic Christianity" by Bob George.

The main reason why I posted the book is it addresses most of the Scriptures used by those who deny eternal security.

For the record, I also do not believe our fellowship with God is broken when we sin. I do, however, believe that God indeed chastens His children who are in continual disobedience - as any good parent would.

Not saying it didn't have any good points, but just that particular doctrine was a surprise to see in his book considering some of the things I saw you post of his on grace. I thought they were mutually exclusive doctrines... I guess not, in some people's eyes.

I probably should just read past that and get to the verses dealing with eternal security and how he addresses verses often quoted by people against O.S.A.S.

 

[Gr8grace]

I was giving it a read but stopped once he started with the broken fellowship and sin confession jargon. Man, I thought he was going to be a good grace preacher from the stuff you were posting from him but how he can speak such grace and still hold to sin confession is beyond me. For example, to say that our fellowship is broken when we sin yet the Lord says He will never forsake us. The Word says that if our hearts condemn us not then we have confidence towards God. If we feel when we sin we alienate ourselves from the Lord we do not have confidence towards him. Why would our sin that He doesn't remember and is as white as snow separate us from Him?

I mean, even consider Adam and Eve. They sinned and they hid from God. Yet what did the Lord do? He sought them out. They alienated themselves from the Lord, not the Lord from them. Of course later he cast them out but that was for their own good so as to not be eternally separated from Him because of their sin. All along He has desired for man to be in His presence. Our sin is no longer a barrier to Him as the veil has been broken. Our sin taken away by Christ and washed in His blood through His sacrifice. If our sins alienated us from Him, how could we be the temple of the Holy Spirit? How could He even reside in us, if our sins alienated us from him?

Anyways, that was a little disappointing... thought it was going to be a good read.

Jack is a grace preacher. I know what He means by "confession"............we name and site our sin to God. Just like David did.

We grieve the Spirit when we sin. He is Grieving for us. We have stepped out of the divine dynasphere of the Christian way of life and we need to get back in. So we give that sin back to the one who paid for it..........If we don't name and site our sins to God, we will live in guilt,worry,fear.

When Jack says "break fellowship" He means to step out of this divine dynasphere(Filled and walking in the Spirit) and back into the cosmic system. We name and site the reason for stepping out of this( It helps us to recognize when we step out) to get back into the Christian way of life.

This very important for the believer to do............when we get back into this divine dynsphere, God cleanses from ALL unrighteousness(Unknown sins that we have in experiential sanctification)

This is rebound, and The Lord washing our feet completely. we don't need a bath, because we are saved, but we need to wash our feet. Because we are still in this world.

 

[Jason0047]

Yes, Iraq. I take it you're a Marine?

While I believe God does use the military and the police for his purposes to carry out vengeance (Romans 13), I don't think he calls His people into those positions. While saying this may push you even further away from me, I have to say it in truth and love (So as not to compromise on what I believe to be right concerning God's Word).

Anyways, here is the most recent debate on Biblcal Pacifism (If your interested):

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/118419-self-defense-not-biblical.html

Granted, I have talked about it here and in another thread for approximately 55 pages and even more than that another forum, I believe what you may find interesting is that the emotional responses (and inappropriate name calling) are the same as you will find in OSAS debates.

 

[Stephen63]

What's it like being perfect? Do tell.

You have my undivided attention, as well as everyone else who lives by grace.

I said we believe in grace, unmerited favor. YOU said we don't.

People who deny eternal security are actually saying Jesus died only for those who are perfect.

Talk about an oxymoron.

Your problem is you think eternal security is the only doctrine that teaches grace. That's a judgement call & just plain stupid. I've always believed in grace. I just don't believe in abusing it.

As for your "perfect" remark, I've seen that game on here for quite a while..... projecting an attitude on someone that doesn't exist to make them look bad.

Resorting to such tactics says it all..... Thank you for exposing yourself.

 

[Stephen63]

Thats a contradiction. Eternal security is based on Grace, apart from grace, we have no security at all. only judgment (what we deserve)

what gets me, is how those who do not believe in eternal security based on the work of Christ, think they could ever be worthy of ANYTHING but eternal condemnation (which they must, to believe the way they do)

I fully believe in God's security in His plan of salvation. We are fully secure as we CONTINUE to accept His grace & CONTINUE to believe in Jesus Christ. That requires CONTINUING to live by faith.

Hebrews 10:38-39 (NASB) [SUP]38 [/SUP]BUT MY RIGHTEOUS one shall live by faith; AND IF he shrinks back, MY SOUL has no pleasure in him. [SUP]39 [/SUP]But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

Hebrews 10:38-39 (NRSV) [SUP]38 [/SUP]but my righteous one will live by faith. My soul takes no pleasure in anyone who shrinks back." [SUP]39[/SUP]But we are not among those who shrink back and so are lost, but among those who have faith and so are saved.

Hebrews 10:38-39 (NLT) [SUP]38 [/SUP]And my righteous ones will live by faith. But I will take no pleasure in anyone who turns away.” [SUP]39 [/SUP]But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction. We are the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.

It'll be interesting to see you twist that to fit.

 

[Stephen63]

I fully believe in God's security in His plan of salvation. We are fully secure as we CONTINUE to accept His grace & CONTINUE to believe in Jesus Christ. That requires CONTINUING to live by faith.

Hebrews 10:38-39 (NASB) [SUP]38 [/SUP]BUT MY RIGHTEOUS one shall live by faith; AND IF he shrinks back, MY SOUL has no pleasure in him. [SUP]39 [/SUP]But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

Hebrews 10:38-39 (NRSV) [SUP]38 [/SUP]but my righteous one will live by faith. My soul takes no pleasure in anyone who shrinks back." [SUP]39[/SUP]But we are not among those who shrink back and so are lost, but among those who have faith and so are saved.

Hebrews 10:38-39 (NLT) [SUP]38 [/SUP]And my righteous ones will live by faith. But I will take no pleasure in anyone who turns away.” [SUP]39 [/SUP]But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction. We are the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.

It'll be interesting to see you twist that to fit.

BTW, is these verses in the older manuscripts? Just had to ask.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I fully believe in God's security in His plan of salvation. We are fully secure as we CONTINUE to accept His grace & CONTINUE to believe in Jesus Christ. That requires CONTINUING to live by faith.

Hebrews 10:38-39 (NASB) [SUP]38 [/SUP]BUT MY RIGHTEOUS one shall live by faith; AND IF he shrinks back, MY SOUL has no pleasure in him. [SUP]39 [/SUP]But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

Hebrews 10:38-39 (NRSV) [SUP]38 [/SUP]but my righteous one will live by faith. My soul takes no pleasure in anyone who shrinks back." [SUP]39[/SUP]But we are not among those who shrink back and so are lost, but among those who have faith and so are saved.

Hebrews 10:38-39 (NLT) [SUP]38 [/SUP]And my righteous ones will live by faith. But I will take no pleasure in anyone who turns away.” [SUP]39 [/SUP]But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction. We are the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.

It'll be interesting to see you twist that to fit.

See, Here is the problem of those who want to use scripture to support their belief system, but not base their belief system on scripture. They miss the finer things of a passage which would show their interpretation is in error.

You see, you can highlight a part. like you did here

[SUP]39[/SUP]But we are not among those who shrink back and so are lost, but among those who have faith and so are saved.

and make it appear like the augthor is saying one can walk away from salvation. as you believe, But if you would highlight another part. you would see that is a faulty claim, and mis translation and use of the verse.

[SUP]39[/SUP]But we are not among those who shrink back and so are lost, but among those who have faith and so are saved.

You see. Unlike those who walked away, We have true faith, and thus are saved. the assertion the author is making, they never had faith, thus were never saved.

in fact I think it is ironic that you said you are curious as to how I would twist it. hen we see here, it is YOU WHO TWISTED it to begin with.

 

[Stephen63]

See, Here is the problem of those who want to use scripture to support their belief system, but not base their belief system on scripture. They miss the finer things of a passage which would show their interpretation is in error.

You see, you can highlight a part. like you did here

[SUP]39[/SUP]But we are not among those who shrink back and so are lost, but among those who have faith and so are saved.

and make it appear like the augthor is saying one can walk away from salvation. as you believe, But if you would highlight another part. you would see that is a faulty claim, and mis translation and use of the verse.

[SUP]39[/SUP]But we are not among those who shrink back and so are lost, but among those who have faith and so are saved.

You see. Unlike those who walked away, We have true faith, and thus are saved. the assertion the author is making, they never had faith, thus were never saved.

in fact I think it is ironic that you said you are curious as to how I would twist it. hen we see here, it is YOU WHO TWISTED it to begin with.

Let's see if that's true.

Another consideration which he urged was, that they ought not to depart from faith to the works of the law, because it is by faith that a just man liveth, and not by the works of the law; because God has no pleasure in those who draw back from faith in him; and because every one who does this exposes himself to eternal perdition, Hebrews 10:36-39.Adam Clarke's Commentary.

The apostle has retained the general sense of the passage; and the idea which he expresses is, that the unbeliever, or he who renounces his religion, will incur the Divine displeasure. He will be a man exposed to the Divine wrath; a man on whom God cannot look but with disapprobation. By this solemn consideration, therefore, the apostle urges on them the importance of perseverance, and the guilt and danger of apostasy from the Christian faith. If such a case should occur, no matter what might have been the former condition, and no matter what love or zeal might have been evinced, yet such an apostasy would expose the individual to the certain wrath of God. His former love could not save him, any more than the former obedience of the angels saved them from the horrors of eternal chains and darkness, or than the holiness in which Adam was created saved him and his posterity from the calamities which his apostasy incurred. Barnes' Notes on the New Testament.

b. Drawing back from Christ displeases God. God is never pleased with a person...
• who professes Christ and draws back into sin.
• who has known the truth and draws back into sin.
• who plays the hypocrite.
• who has a form of religion but draws back from the sacrificial blood of His Son.
God has no pleasure in this person, no pleasure whatsoever. This means that He will judge the person who draws back.
c. Drawing back is not the way of the believer—not the genuine believer. "We are not of those who draw back unto perdition." Some are; some professed faith in Christ and have now drawn back. But we are not of that number. "We believe to the saving of the soul."
Preacher's Outline and Sermon Bible - Commentary - The Preacher's Outline & Sermon Bible – Hebrew, James.

10:37, 38 These verses focus the attention of a person facing trial on the imminent return of the Lord and the need to endure by faith (3:12, 13).10:39 Those who draw back are in danger of destruction. The writer is confident that he and his readers believe to the saving of the soul. Those who live by faith (v. 38) invest their physical lives for eternal dividends.Nelson's NKJV Study Bible.

10:1-39 In this chapter the author emphasizes the finality of Christ's sacrifice by contrasting it with the lack of finality of the OT system of law and sacrifices. Christ's redemption needs no repetition and no supplementation. Therefore, a rejection of His sacrifice is final and unforgivable.Ryrie Study Bible.

10:37-38 "For yet a little while, and He who is coming will come and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him."[SUP]NKJV[/SUP] One of the promises that believers will receive (10:36) is the return of the Christ. Through this quote of Habakkuk 2:3-4, readers are reminded that the day is drawing near (see also 10:25). This second coming of Christ and all the blessings that come with him outweigh any discomfort faced by believers in this life. Those who remain faithful to God are the just who will live by faith. These people will persevere to the end. However, those who have drawn back forfeit the heavenly blessing because they prove that they do not belong to God's household. "Draw back" is an allusion to apostasy. People who defect from the Christian faith when persecution comes will be forfeiting the ultimate goal of salvation—living forever with Christ.
Life Application Bible Commentary - Life Application Bible Commentary – Hebrews.

You'd think anyone could see that the writer of Hebrews mentions being faithful & drawing back to show the results of both..... The blind simply can't see it.

 

[KennethC]

Acts 20:28-31


28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.

30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.

31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let's see if that's true.

Another consideration which he urged was, that they ought not to depart from faith to the works of the law, because it is by faith that a just man liveth, and not by the works of the law; because God has no pleasure in those who draw back from faith in him; and because every one who does this exposes himself to eternal perdition, Hebrews 10:36-39.Adam Clarke's Commentary.

Who is Adam Clark? Lets just read the passage. We are not like those who walk away (lose faith) we are those who ACTUALLY HAVE IT. and BECAUSE WE HAVE IT, WE ARE SAVED!

Did the auther say they were ever saved? No. why? Well we can know when he never said it, or listen to men like adam clark here who will twist what the word of God says and get it wrong.

The apostle has retained the general sense of the passage; and the idea which he expresses is, that the unbeliever, or he who renounces his religion, will incur the Divine displeasure. He will be a man exposed to the Divine wrath; a man on whom God cannot look but with disapprobation. By this solemn consideration, therefore, the apostle urges on them the importance of perseverance, and the guilt and danger of apostasy from the Christian faith. If such a case should occur, no matter what might have been the former condition, and no matter what love or zeal might have been evinced, yet such an apostasy would expose the individual to the certain wrath of God. His former love could not save him, any more than the former obedience of the angels saved them from the horrors of eternal chains and darkness, or than the holiness in which Adam was created saved him and his posterity from the calamities which his apostasy incurred. Barnes' Notes on the New Testament.

b. Drawing back from Christ displeases God. God is never pleased with a person...
• who professes Christ and draws back into sin.
• who has known the truth and draws back into sin.
• who plays the hypocrite.
• who has a form of religion but draws back from the sacrificial blood of His Son.
God has no pleasure in this person, no pleasure whatsoever. This means that He will judge the person who draws back.
c. Drawing back is not the way of the believer—not the genuine believer. "We are not of those who draw back unto perdition." Some are; some professed faith in Christ and have now drawn back. But we are not of that number. "We believe to the saving of the soul."
Preacher's Outline and Sermon Bible - Commentary - The Preacher's Outline & Sermon Bible – Hebrew, James.

10:37, 38 These verses focus the attention of a person facing trial on the imminent return of the Lord and the need to endure by faith (3:12, 13).10:39 Those who draw back are in danger of destruction. The writer is confident that he and his readers believe to the saving of the soul. Those who live by faith (v. 38) invest their physical lives for eternal dividends.Nelson's NKJV Study Bible.

10:1-39 In this chapter the author emphasizes the finality of Christ's sacrifice by contrasting it with the lack of finality of the OT system of law and sacrifices. Christ's redemption needs no repetition and no supplementation. Therefore, a rejection of His sacrifice is final and unforgivable.Ryrie Study Bible.

10:37-38 "For yet a little while, and He who is coming will come and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him."[SUP]NKJV[/SUP] One of the promises that believers will receive (10:36) is the return of the Christ. Through this quote of Habakkuk 2:3-4, readers are reminded that the day is drawing near (see also 10:25). This second coming of Christ and all the blessings that come with him outweigh any discomfort faced by believers in this life. Those who remain faithful to God are the just who will live by faith. These people will persevere to the end. However, those who have drawn back forfeit the heavenly blessing because they prove that they do not belong to God's household. "Draw back" is an allusion to apostasy. People who defect from the Christian faith when persecution comes will be forfeiting the ultimate goal of salvation—living forever with Christ.
Life Application Bible Commentary - Life Application Bible Commentary – Hebrews.

You'd think anyone could see that the writer of Hebrews mentions being faithful & drawing back to show the results of both..... The blind simply can't see it.

The blind can't see it?

You must be blind. Again, WE ARE OF FAITH THUS WE ARE SAVED, vs those who were NEVER SAVED, because they NEVER HAD TRUE FAITH.

Stop listening to men, and start reading with an open mind. You have God taking back a gift of eternal life he gave to a person KNOWING THEY WOULD ONE DAY TURN FROM THE FAITH to law or whatever it is they turned to.

Your problem is you are blind to who and what God is, and because of this, You can not see the truth of his true salvation.

As john said, they left us, but THEY WERE NEVER OF US.

As Hebrews said, UNLIKE THEM, WE HAVE TRUE FAITH AND ARE SAVED

 

[WoundedWarrior]

I said we believe in grace, unmerited favor. YOU said we don't.

Your problem is you think eternal security is the only doctrine that teaches grace. That's a judgement call & just plain stupid. I've always believed in grace. I just don't believe in abusing it.

As for your "perfect" remark, I've seen that game on here for quite a while..... projecting an attitude on someone that doesn't exist to make them look bad.

Resorting to such tactics says it all..... Thank you for exposing yourself.

"Your problem is..." -- Anytime someone starts a comment with this phrase, I think: (Sarcastically, to myself) "Man, this outta be good..."

And it was good, because you just stooped to the level of the person you attacked, which makes you (and your actions) no better.

To much finger-pointing, not enough Truth.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

While I believe God does use the military and the police for his purposes to carry out vengeance (Romans 13), I don't think he calls His people into those positions. While saying this may push you even further away from me, I have to say it in truth and love (So as not to compromise on what I believe to be right concerning God's Word).

No, you don't have to say anything to me, Jason. I am not your friend. You may feel you have authority to pass your self-righteous judgement(s), condemnation(s), and opinion(s) on me -- but your words are like a waves that are blown by the wind and tossed by the sea. I look to God for wisdom and understanding, not you Jason. You opinion(s) mean nothing to me.

Anyways, here is the most recent debate on Biblcal Pacifism (If your interested):
Self Defense is not biblical

Anyways, here's an article on How to Play with Barbie Dolls (If you're interested): 4 Ways to Play Barbie - wikiHow

Granted, I have talked about it here and in another thread for approximately 55 pages and even more than that another forum,

Proverbs 17:27New International Version (NIV)

27 The one who has knowledge uses words with restraint,
and whoever has understanding is even-tempered.

I believe what you may find interesting is that the emotional responses (and inappropriate name calling) are the same as you will find in OSAS debates.

Well, you're wrong again; for I do not delight in evil, etc. But I do find that whenever someone tells someone else that their belief is false, that they are teaching evil, that they are disrespecting God, that they are losing their Salvation, etc -- that responses do become emotional. Ya know what -- God gave us that emotion. We SHOULD be angry when we experience what we have seen here.

You are continuing to troll, Jason. Your response (above) is nothing more than trolling.

I know you will (likely) argue, because that's what you do.

So answer this: How can this comment in question be "in love" as you claim?

 

[Stephen63]

"Your problem is..." -- Anytime someone starts a comment with this phrase, I think: (Sarcastically, to myself) "Man, this outta be good..."

And it was good, because you just stooped to the level of the person you attacked, which makes you (and your actions) no better.

To much finger-pointing, not enough Truth.

Thanks for the heads up..... that's the last thing I want.

 

[Stephen63]

Who is Adam Clark? Lets just read the passage. We are not like those who walk away (lose faith) we are those who ACTUALLY HAVE IT. and BECAUSE WE HAVE IT, WE ARE SAVED!

Did the auther say they were ever saved? No. why? Well we can know when he never said it, or listen to men like adam clark here who will twist what the word of God says and get it wrong.



The blind can't see it?

You must be blind. Again, WE ARE OF FAITH THUS WE ARE SAVED, vs those who were NEVER SAVED, because they NEVER HAD TRUE FAITH.

Stop listening to men, and start reading with an open mind. You have God taking back a gift of eternal life he gave to a person KNOWING THEY WOULD ONE DAY TURN FROM THE FAITH to law or whatever it is they turned to.

Your problem is you are blind to who and what God is, and because of this, You can not see the truth of his true salvation.

As john said, they left us, but THEY WERE NEVER OF US.

As Hebrews said, UNLIKE THEM, WE HAVE TRUE FAITH AND ARE SAVED

Proper translation:

Our people don't need commentaries.... we know it all.

You are blind.

You never had true faith.

You are blind to who God is.

You cannot see the truth of salvation.

You've never been saved.

You don't have the truth.

It's true that most OSAS I've talked to DOES NOT use commentaries for theological study..... I guess you have to be that way if you believe "the perfect" is the completion of the canon.

Just curious, though..... why does ministers in their denominations go to seminary if they don't need a commentary?

Then there's this issue with this Stop listening to men, and start reading with an open mind thing. If I'm supposed to quit listening to men, why then should I listen to these guys? I'm supposed to quit listening to those who have masters degrees in theology & biblical history & instead believe an armchair preacher?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Proper translation:

Our people don't need commentaries.... we know it all.

You are blind.

You never had true faith.

You are blind to who God is.

You cannot see the truth of salvation.

You've never been saved.

You don't have the truth.

It's true that most OSAS I've talked to DOES NOT use commentaries for theological study..... I guess you have to be that way if you believe "the perfect" is the completion of the canon.

see this is the problem with people who have ulterior motives, or have grudges against others.. Or are continually trying to find something wrong with what someone says, they make faulty and futile arguments.

I have used commentaries so many times (as well as greek and hebrew lexicons, dictionaries, and other things) since i have been in here. But you want to prove me so wrong, you speak before you think.

There is a time and a place for a commentary. And when the commentary does not line up with what scripture says, then it is time to put that commentary away. (when we use it instead of study)

Just curious, though..... why does ministers in their denominations go to seminary if they don't need a commentary?

I do not know. why do they? did timothy or paul or peter, or any of the NT ministers go to college or use commentaries?

maybe that is what is wrong with the church, we go and get taught a certain way, and lost the ability to think for ourselves.

Then there's this issue with this Stop listening to men, and start reading with an open mind thing. If I'm supposed to quit listening to men, why then should I listen to these guys? I'm supposed to quit listening to those who have masters degrees in theology & biblical history & instead believe an armchair preacher?

alot of fluff.

Thanks for proving you have no desire to discuss the word.. You still have refused to discuss why it is the author of Hebrews said quite clearly. We are not of them, for we have true faith, and this true faith leads to the preservation of the soul (literal translation)

 

[WoundedWarrior]

At this point, I have not read the information [article] at the OP's provided link;
I have simply trusted the words of those who said they had.

Since some have not followed-up on previous disagreements in this thread,
I cannot further comment until I have understood the information [article] in question.

 

[Stephen63]

see this is the problem with people who have ulterior motives, or have grudges against others.. Or are continually trying to find something wrong with what someone says, they make faulty and futile arguments.

JUNK. No foundation.

I have used commentaries so many times (as well as greek and hebrew lexicons, dictionaries, and other things) since i have been in here. But you want to prove me so wrong, you speak before you think.

I have NEVER seen a single post of yours use any such..... & you didn't use any here either.

There is a time and a place for a commentary. And when the commentary does not line up with what scripture says, then it is time to put that commentary away. (when we use it instead of study)

Since my commentaries agreed with each other & the text, I guess now wasn't the time?

I do not know. why do they? did timothy or paul or peter, or any of the NT ministers go to college or use commentaries?

Again, junk.

maybe that is what is wrong with the church, we go and get taught a certain way, and lost the ability to think for ourselves.

Tell your pastor that..... you know..... the one that went to seminary & got theologically educated?.... or do you even have a home church?

Thanks for proving you have no desire to discuss the word.. You still have refused to discuss why it is the author of Hebrews said quite clearly. We are not of them, for we have true faith, and this true faith leads to the preservation of the soul (literal translation)

The scripture is at post #87, & commentary at #90 that agrees with the scripture, & with each other.

Now, let's talk about the REAL reason you're getting so hyped up about this with your groundless accusations..... This scripture can't be twisted up. It speaks too literal to mess with. Now, unless you get me mad at you for all your accusations & I verbally attack you, you don't have a prayer of winning your argument.

We can quote ALL KINDS of anti-OSAS in Hebrews. It's the book with the most plain-speaking verses about losing salvation & the judgement of hell for those who do.

A christian's security is eternal IF he doesn't turn away from Christ. Period.

 

[resurrection33]

This free pdf e-book, answers the objections made by those who deny eternal security. It also addresses all of the Scriptures they use to try and disprove OSAS.

It's worth the time to read.

https://gracethrufaith.com/assets/uploads/2014/07/OSAS-Anthology-ebook.pdf

I believe in eternal security, but the Lord disciplines those who don't repent of their sin.