Nicolaitanes philosophy of “systematic distortion” and negation of scripture.

RachelBibleStudent · Aug 5, 2015

ok reality check...here again are the only verses in the bible that refer to the nicolaitans...

revelation 2:6..."Yet this you do have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate."

revelation 2:14-15..."But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality. So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans."

that is it...there is nothing in there about abolishing torah observance or adopting pagan rituals or holidays as traditions in the church...nothing about the 'house of ephraim'...nothing about santa claus...nothing about nimrod...nothing about nicolaitans infiltrating centuries of christian churches...

this thread needs to get back to honoring scripture as its authority...instead of using scripture as a springboard for all kinds of speculation and unfounded assertions...

Shoshanah · Aug 5, 2015

BarlyGurl said:

Thank you - I believe you are right - I will have to toughen up some!

I have a lot to learn and there is so much about things that are supposedly going to happen in September 2015 and was hoping to find some knowledgeable people with level heads.

just-us-2 · Aug 5, 2015

Shoshanah said:

It is a rough place here sometimes which is why I don't come in here very often. I wish you well as you look for a friendly forum but sadly I cannot recommend one. If I knew of one, I would be there

BarlyGurl · Aug 5, 2015

just-us-2 said:

I try to think of it like... I am getting an education about "people and religion", whilst ministering to some and being ministered to by others. If you really want "nicey-nice" fellowship just bake some cookies and invite your neighbors for tea. If you need a break, take one... and come back as soon as your spirit yearns for the sounds of drawing swords... it is good for you... but can take some getting used to.

just-me · Aug 5, 2015

RachelBibleStudent said:

Reality check by using our God given mind to discern the evidence given in scripture. I find no other way to put it together than this. If we are not supposed to understand this false doctrine, why would it be listed in scripture? God's word didn't list this doctrine as extra baggage that could never be discerned.

First, it is obvious that Nicolaitans are those who have departed from the faith, in some degree or completely.

“Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.” (Habakkuk 2:4)

James 2:17-20
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” (Romans 3:28)

Self works of the law doesn't justify anyone, but the works of God, in us, establishes the law by our faith that He gave to us.

“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” (Romans 3:31)

This is where hating the false doctrine of “systematic removal of God's law” which is defined by the term the “Doctrine of the Nicolaitanes” must be understood. The “Doctrine of Balaam” cannot take root until there is a purposeful rejection of God's law. This is obvious when reading about Israel being duped, by deception into the “Doctrine of Balaam. The temptation of promiscuous actions could only take hold if God's law is forsaken. Jesus, who hated both doctrines in Pergamos, said that it is impossible to serve two masters. (Matthew 6:24) If the law wasn't rejected first, Balaam's doctrine could not have taken hold. Both doctrines in Revelation 2 work in coordination with each other because one church had both doctrines in operation at the same time. It's a very simple deduction. Common sense and loving God with our mind also needs to be put into action.

These descriptions of faith stated in the verses above are not contrary to one another, but cannot be understood by the carnal mind that is so easily deceived by false doctrines such as the “Doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.” Deception is easily issued to those of a carnal fleshly mind which the church had in Pergamos where Satan's seat was.

If a person cannot prove it untrue, then the final verdict is still incomplete. This doctrine is listed for our edification.

Elin · Aug 5, 2015

just-us-2 said:

It's not about teaching, it's about factually demonstrating your assertions.

Facts speak for themselves.

Elin · Aug 5, 2015

RachelBibleStudent said:

ok reality check...here again are the only verses in the bible that refer to the nicolaitans...

revelation 2:6..."Yet this you do have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate."

revelation 2:14-15..."But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality. So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans."

that is it...there is nothing in there about abolishing torah observance or adopting pagan rituals or holidays as traditions in the church...nothing about the 'house of ephraim'...nothing about santa claus...nothing about nimrod...nothing about nicolaitans infiltrating centuries of christian churches...

this thread needs to get back to honoring scripture as its authority...instead of
using scripture as a springboard for all kinds of speculation and unfounded assertions...

It's called "teaching."

There you have it, folks. . .he who has hears that can hear, let him hear.

just-me · Aug 5, 2015

The way to know what the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes really are, because it is hated by Christ. It really is a simple answer and can be found in doing a search about what God hates. It all is defined in scripture throughout the entire Bible. I am in the process of making a list that will define this doctrine for what it really is sometime tomorrow, God willing.

just-us-2 · Aug 5, 2015

Elin said:

Lost cause - back to "ignore" you go. Time is way too short to waste contending with troublemakers who think they don't even have to be kind to others, let alone smothering edification and good fellowship with their arrogant know-it-all attitudes. Maybe someone else can get through to you.

Elin · Aug 5, 2015

just-me said:

Can we look forward to a factual Scriptural basis for your list?

Angela53510 · Aug 5, 2015

Well, I knew this thread was going to be just weird! I certainly wasn't disappointed.

BarlyGurl · Aug 5, 2015

Angela53510 said:

Well then mosey over to ... "church offering down... thread"... iffin yer lookin for weird.

Elin · Aug 5, 2015

just-me said:

You are confusing edification with novelty.

just-me · Aug 6, 2015

just-me said:

Tomorrow in now today, so it is evident that God was willing that I post this. I pray that I will never misrepresent Him in what I share with others.

It is obvious that the “Doctrine of the Nicolaitanes” has caused Jesus to react negatively toward it. It is proven over and over in scripture that God instructs His own because He loves them, and reacts negatively toward them when they purposefully *reject His love by rejecting His Word. It is a given fact that false doctrines are always the perpetrator of God righteous rejection of them. This proves that Truth is exactly opposite of falsehood. The light of Truth reveals falsehood, and purposeful falsehood hates truth causing Jesus to reciprocate in kind, hating purposeful falsehood. Both falsehood and truth are revealed by their opposing speech.

“For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, *That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.” “*that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. (Romans 3:3-4, Psalm 51:4b)

It is a given that both doctrines in Revelation 2:14-15were in only one church, and were in operation at the same time, so both doctrines had to work simultaneously together, with one falsehood complementing the other.Therefore, “the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes” is complementary to “the doctrine of Balaam” that is defined in scripture. God expects us to make that connection by His indwelling Holy Spirit and His Word that also work in coordination with each other. The motivation of God's Holy Spirit puts God's Word into action, and the deceiver is a copycat using the spirit of deception to put false doctrine into action.

Nicolaitanes philosophy of “systematic distortion” and negation of scripture is plural, it obviously being the doctrine of many people with a particular agenda that has numerous tactics in order to achieve the goal. Deception always pursues a particular system of philosophical thought. It is an attitude held by a person or organization that acts as a guiding principle for behavior. Deception is purposeful distortion that exemplifies either periodic or constant prejudice in favor of or against something, or someone by contradicting or denial of something. It is hated by Jesus Christ because it is opposite of His Word that reveals His Name. “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.” (Exodus 20:7)

Biblical circumstantial evidence will always convict or forgive depending on our reactions toward ALL of God's Word. If some refuse this evidence, they play a part in the motivation of these false doctrines.

What does God the Father of Jesus Christ hate, taking into account that they are ONE. So Jesus hates the “Doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.” Let's look at what God has always hated to identify these doctrines revealed in Revelation 2:15 that are hated like the rest of what is defined in scripture.

1. Rejecting God's instructions in righteousness (Jer. 12:7-8)
2. Wickednesses revealed by His Word (Jer. 44:3-4)
3. Children that are killed physically and spiritually (Hosea 9:15)
4. Man made celebrations taking the place of God's celebrations (Amos 5:21)
5. rejection of His definitions on how to love (Lev. 19:11-18, Deut. 6:-6)
6. Selling out our birthright (Malichi 1:3)
7. Self pride (Proverbs 6:17)
8. A lying tongue (Proverbs 6:17)
9. murder of the innocent (Proverbs 6:17)
10. Wicked imaginations (Proverbs 6:18)
11. A purposeful troublemaker (Proverbs 6:18)
12. Lies and falsehood (Proverbs 6:19)
13. Causing discord in the church (Proverbs 6:19)
14. Esteeming evil as good (Psalm 97:10)
15. Hypocrisy (Zechariah 8:17, Matt. 23:23)

Together, both “the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes” and “the doctrine of Balaam” represent what God hates. They both work in coordination with each other. They were and are in the church today, and Jesus knows where this deception sits.Antipas must have understood all, and probably more than this summarization I have given. The people who propagated these false doctrines obviously hated what Antipas revealed from God's Word, and ultimately killed him. “I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.” (Revelation 2:13)

“If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.” (John 15:18)

ניכולה, Nicolah, means "let us eat," characteristic of this philosophy of debauchery.
“For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,” (Matthew 24:38)

“And ye have numbered the houses of Jerusalem, and the houses have ye broken down to fortify the wall. Ye made also a ditch between the two walls for the water of the old pool: but ye have not looked unto the maker thereof, neither had respect unto him that fashioned it long ago. And in that day did the Lord God of hosts call to weeping, and to mourning, and to baldness, and to girding with sackcloth: And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die.” (Isaiah 22:10-13)

“But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” (Matthew 24:37)

just-me · Aug 6, 2015

Angela53510 said:

You obviously are attracted to things that you have predetermined to be just weird. Most people I know walk the other way when they are repulsed by something "just weird." If weird stuff is magnetic to you, that's "just weird." LOL Just kidding.

just-me · Aug 6, 2015

The vast, overwhelming number of churches in the world today would fall into the category of the infamous “Nicolaitanes!” The deception is global. And it is getting much, much worse, and stronger!

The apostle Paul wrote, about the last days, before the coming of Christ, “Let no man deceive you by any means for that Day will not come unless the FALLING AWAY comes first, and the man of SIN [lawlessness] be revealed, the son of perdition [destruction], who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped [such as Nimrod himself!], so that he sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. . . . For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until He [or “he”] is taken out of the way. And then that lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming” (II Thessalonians 2:3-8).

An end-time “Nicolas” (Nikos meaning conquerer or destroyer, victor or tyrant) over the people, is soon to appear on the scene! This is not the deacon in the book of Acts chapter 6 verse 5. His good name was used to deceive converts in the early church, and the “doctrine of the Nicolaitanes” wasn't, by any means, what he believed. IMO

posthuman · Aug 6, 2015

alright, i've read & read & read this thread, but it's just like i was concerned about --

there is no solid evidence connecting the doctrine of the Nicolaitans to Ballam, to Santa Claus, to anything else. just tons of conjecture. it feels like to me that this is just attaching whatever heresy or supposed heresy you're particularly zealous about to the name willy-nilly and then stretching out a string of loose associations until they're within earshot of each other.

it's name-dropping. it's a celebrity endorsement. it insubstantial.

there are 8 pages of basically "it's mentioned in close proximity to Balaam (even though the Spirit took are to differentiate it)" and "someone else is also named Nicolas"
that's pretty unsolid-footing, if you ask me.

i've got just as much reason to declare this is Nicholas Cage -ism, because the actor is named Nicholas. or that murder and taking the Lord's name in vain are the same thing, since in Exodus 20 they're mentioned not too far apart from each other.

thanks anyway. i do mean that

& what's all this talk about JW??
are you guys JW? that's bad stuff, that can be actually clearly condemned, mkay? come out of it.

Yet · Aug 6, 2015

just-us-2 said:

Lucifer lifted himself above the congregation. Above the Throne of God. He wanted to replace Christ as Head. Isaiah 14.

Pride. The self exaltation of a man or woman above the congregation is what satan did. Replacing Christ as head.

There cannot be 2 heads.

We've all been in a meeting where the Holy Spirit takes over. Note: the titled guy pretty much disappears. Everyone ministering one to another as Paul instructed.

Eventually the titled awesome person retakes his throne and the Spirit departs. Think on it.

posthuman · Aug 6, 2015

Rachel,

thanks a bunch. i feel like i could have just read this and skipped all the rest

RachelBibleStudent said:

here is what we know about the nicolaitans from scripture...

revelation 2:6..."Yet this you do have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate."

revelation 2:14-15..."But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality. So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans."

basically we are not told very much at all about this particular heresy...

the few things we can glean about them is that they were known throughout the area of asia minor where john wrote to...they had made inroads into the church at pergamum...but they were rejected by the church at ephesus... the references to their 'teaching' in verse fifteen and their 'deeds' in verse six indicates that the basis for their condemnation as heretics was twofold...they taught a false doctrine which promoted sinful practices that God hated...

there is disagreement on the relationship between the teaching of balaam and the teaching of the nicolaitans... does not directly state a connection between the teaching of balaam and the teaching of the nicolaitans...in the strict sense it merely says that in the same way that some people in pergamum had fallen for the teaching of balaam there were also people there who had fallen for the teaching of the nicolaitans... albert barnes especially argued that the greek word 'kai' in verse fifteen expressly distinguishes between the two doctrine...

so that is all we know about the nicolaitans...everything else is either derived from extrabiblical sources or from speculation... God simply has not seen fit to tell us anything else about them in his word...

this is where we have to stop as theologians...however if we choose to pursue the question further as historians...the best extrabiblical sources on this issue are the writings of early christian teachers...

irenaeus indicated in his 'against heresies' that the nicolaitans were so named because they were followers of the deacon nicolas who was one of the seven deacons appointed in the book of acts... he also attributes the sins of balaam...namely idolatry and sexual immorality...to the nicolaitans...

hippolytus of rome in his 'refutation of all heresies' likewise accuses the nicolaitans of committing the acts john attributes to the teaching of balaam...and he directly accuses nicolas of being the originator of this heresy...

later on ephiphanius of salamis similarly attributed the heresy to nicolas himself and relates that he was married but attempted to live in celibacy and after a failure in this area attempted to suppress his shame by inventing a doctrine that daily sex was a condition for salvation...

clement of alexandria on the other hand stated in his 'stromata' that the nicolaitans misinterpreted the righteous teaching and defensible actions of nicolas as a license to commit sin and that nicolas himself was innocent of any false teaching... he goes into even more detail than the others and explains that the nicolaitans held to the absurd notion that they could be victorious over the flesh by abusing it through sexual immorality...

ignatius of antioch...who wrote earlier than any of the others...states categorically that the nicolaitans falsely called themselves by the name of nicolas...

the unanimous testimony of these ancient christian writers is that the nicolaitans were egregious practitioners of sexual immorality...which they justified doctrinally on the basis of bizarre twisting of apostolic teaching... on the question of the guilt or innocence of nicolas himself in this matter...regarding which the early christian writers disagree...i should note that the earliest writers...who would have had more firsthand knowledge of the situation and who would have been less given to speculation...all hold nicolas himself to be innocent of originating this teaching...

Elin · Aug 6, 2015

just-me said:

Does that apply to your unbelief of Eph 2:15 that the law with its commandments and regulations has been abolished in the flesh of Jesus Christ on the cross,
and to Heb 8:13 that the old covenant has been made ancient/obsolete?

Physician, heal thyself.

Nicolaitanes philosophy of “systematic distortion” and negation of scripture.

RachelBibleStudent

Guest

Banned

Banned

BarlyGurl

Guest

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

BarlyGurl

Guest

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned