sinless perfectionism

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Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
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#41
If your old man of sin truly died with Christ crucified, and you were truly raised up a new man in Christ, you are no longer "in sin" but "in Christ" because you have put on Christ.

Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

And we know Christ is not a sinner.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#42
If your old man of sin truly died with Christ crucified, and you were truly raised up a new man in Christ, you are no longer "in sin" but "in Christ" because you have put on Christ.

Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

And we know Christ is not a sinner.
So true, my friend. It is my heart felt prayer that people see this. Not so as to uplift ourselves but to uplift Jesus Christ whereby they will only boast in Him and His goodness that works in all true believers.
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#43
So true, my friend. It is my heart felt prayer that people see this. Not so as to uplift ourselves but to uplift Jesus Christ whereby they will only boast in Him and His goodness that works in all true believers.
I personally believe a lot of people are still in the flesh, and are not yet born again from above by the Holy Spirit, and thus they still struggle with putting to death the deeds of the flesh. Without the new birth in Christ one will not be able to overcome the lusts of the flesh, I know I could not have done it without Christ in me. So it's not that in all cases people have fallen away from the faith, but they are yet to be made a new creation in Christ. Peace :)
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
1,098
113
#44
so was paul lying how could he have been the chief of sinners the way you see it, and how you put it again i have to add the arrogant bit, 'So now this is where spiritual guidance helps. lol,it just rolls lol..... so wasn't herod a worse sinner than paul what about judas,

and if i quote.'
But let the spirit guide,' if thats spirit is guiding me to promote the sinless perfection heresy i think i'll stick to the spirit thats guiding me already cheers all the same..

and heres the verse for those that like bible verses,
1 Timothy 1:15King James Version (KJV)

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
(cant see where it says ,'It didn't say "He was the chief" right? That we could all understand because he was in his former life a persecutor of the Saints.')

notice he says
i am not i was yes forgiven but still aware of the depth of his sin and which causes a daily carrying of his cross as he comes into the presence of god,

Paul understands....He is made whole in Christ, [ Gal. 2:20; 2 Cor. 5:17 ]--Yet, with the flesh still active in his life. It is not a cross of sin we pick up every day and carry ever to improve with God's grace, It is the placement of Christ, the remembering of the death of Christ in us, that is also the life of the resurrection in us thru Christ--this is the cross we pick up daily. The first is the full weight of the cross on your shoulders with no end in sight to the victory over it, but God says His burden is light and his yolk is easy. The is a reality factor Paul is sharing with us. We are in reality victorious in Christ, yet the battle waged on earth is not without cost to us, we tarry on with Sins voice thru temptations still as alive as ever, roaring like a lion. Yet, despite that we can stand up under it. Do we feel the overcoming victory at the end--YES! If we stay faithful, do we feel the pain of the battle Satan wages on us--YES! Until our life is drawn to Him in heaven this walk of holiness is not forged from weakness, regardless of Christ's overcoming victory found in us. There will be a day this weaken vessel will be made whole and our fellowship will be with God in His glory, yet this life has a mission. A calling yet to be finished. A calling of others unto Himself thru us.He doesn't send us into agreeable people, He sends us into the pits of hell to exhort people unto Himself in love.

The world thinks love is not a very good fighting tool, so when it shows fruit it is angered at the fact it is one upping them. Human reasoning says a stick is better than a kind word in battle. But God is not calling us unto a lower victory but a higher one, found in Christ Jesus alone as the only means to an end for that in us.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
1,098
113
#45
This is a bit of a footnote to the threads subject yet I want to finish the thought of the understanding of the plight of Gods calling in our lives as a worker of His. As Paul understood the cost of service and not an admittance of sin found in him after he had chose to follow Christ, I am reminded of the fact that one of the first things a worker has to learn is how to be God's noble man or woman amid a crowd of ineffectual things. A Christian must never make the plea--"If only I we're somewhere else!" The only test that a worker is Christ's witness is that he NEVER becomes mean from contact with mean people any more than he becomes sinful from contact with sinful people.

We are not workers for God by our own choice. [John 15:16 ]. Many deliberately choose to be worker's for God, but they have no matter of God's mighty grace in them, no matter from God's mighty Word. The pattern of God's worker is that he is entrusted with a mission--for example, Moses and the Apostle Paul. We have to be in God's hand so that He can plant men on the Rock as He has planted us, not by our testimony only, but because we are being made co-workers with God.

I believe if we can come to understand the value of the tool God has given us in Christ, and recon to the task of Gods will to bring others to Himself in love, we will then see the real victory in us. Not a hodgepodge collection of truths pieced together making for a weak ship unable to float and requiring human reasoning to shore up our weak spots then with the awesome one of grace to finish the task, But a perfect plan of complete forged work in us as upstanding glorious individuals--heirs to the awesome one of grace, seen from a close up relationship, and not a far- away, back -turned respect. And yet, we have not seen ourselves to the end of His beautiful transformation in this earthen vessel....so stay tuned this work is not yet finished!
 
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prodigal

Guest
#46
Job 8:2
How long wilt thou speak these things? and how long shall the words of thy mouthbe like a strong wind?
 
P

prodigal

Guest
#47
I actually perused those articles on sinless perfection and they are trash. They are deceptive pieces which first setup a straw man and then tear down that straw man in order to promote the "legal/abstract" salvation doctrine of Reformed theology.

"Striking the balance" indeed. The balance between oppositions of science falsely so called? A balance between two presentations of error is still error. The article does this...

|<-----------------------------------------False Paradigm-------------------------------->|
Sinless Perfection Strawman<--------------Position of Article-------------------->Lawlessness



Lawlessness At One End Of Scale


Sinless Perfection Strawman At Other End of Scale



That is a classic example of OPPOSITIONS OF SCIENCE FALSELY SO CALLED and is exactly the kind of thing that Paul warned Timothy about. The entire framework is a manipulation, it is an attack upon the thinking process of the subject who reads it in an attempt to foster the acceptance of a false conclusion. The false conclusion being...



In other words the whole article is promoting the premise that one can sin and not surely die because any guilt associated with ongoing wickedness has been LEGALLY cleansed once and for all. This premise is then offset against a perception of lawlessness due to the implication of SINNING LESS AND LESS.

1John 1:7-10 is simply John teaching that in order to be cleansed of our sins we have to come clean before God about our sin. It has nothing to do with the presence of ongoing wickedness within the heart of the believer. The heart of the believer has been purged of wickedness through repentance and faith whereby the heart is left in a pure state before God and God reckons the faith of the believer (ie. faithfulness = pure motive = love out of a pure heart = wholehearted yielding to God) as righteousness. There is NOTHING forensic or positional about it. Justification is directly connected to hearty purity and HEART PURITY is a subject articles like these OMIT COMPLETELY.


Jesus taught about heart purity and clearly stated that BLESSED BE THE PURE IN HEART FOR THEY SHALL SEE GOD. The deceptive theologians behind articles like this deny that, they instead teach that those whom "confess their wickedness and trust in Jesus shall enter the kingdom." They view the cross in a provisional context of providing a purely LEGAL pardon which has no connection whatsoever to an actual purging of evil from the heart.

Don't buy it.

The article is cunningly constructed via petitioning selected and isolated portions of the Bible which are completely ripped from their context.[/QUOT

Trash you as leading expert on that too ...lol,, again you attitude is not someone i feel is worth wasting time on. you carry on saving yourself as for me i need Jesus for that.. a study of the doctrine of how to communicate wouldn;t go amiss or did you miss them ones out.
 
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prodigal

Guest
#48
Paul understands....He is made whole in Christ, [ Gal. 2:20; 2 Cor. 5:17 ]--Yet, with the flesh still active in his life. It is not a cross of sin we pick up every day and carry ever to improve with God's grace, It is the placement of Christ, the remembering of the death of Christ in us, that is also the life of the resurrection in us thru Christ--this is the cross we pick up daily. The first is the full weight of the cross on your shoulders with no end in sight to the victory over it, but God says His burden is light and his yolk is easy. The is a reality factor Paul is sharing with us. We are in reality victorious in Christ, yet the battle waged on earth is not without cost to us, we tarry on with Sins voice thru temptations still as alive as ever, roaring like a lion. Yet, despite that we can stand up under it. Do we feel the overcoming victory at the end--YES! If we stay faithful, do we feel the pain of the battle Satan wages on us--YES! Until our life is drawn to Him in heaven this walk of holiness is not forged from weakness, regardless of Christ's overcoming victory found in us. There will be a day this weaken vessel will be made whole and our fellowship will be with God in His glory, yet this life has a mission. A calling yet to be finished. A calling of others unto Himself thru us.He doesn't send us into agreeable people, He sends us into the pits of hell to exhort people unto Himself in love.

The world thinks love is not a very good fighting tool, so when it shows fruit it is angered at the fact it is one upping them. Human reasoning says a stick is better than a kind word in battle. But God is not calling us unto a lower victory but a higher one, found in Christ Jesus alone as the only means to an end for that in us.
even jesus needed help to carry his cross, spose he wouldn't of made it into your high and mighty club
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#49
...lol,, again you attitude is not someone i feel is worth wasting time on. you carry on saving yourself as for me i need Jesus for that.. a study of the doctrine of how to communicate wouldn;t go amiss or did you miss them ones out.
Yielding to the Spirit of God and walking in that Spirit of God is not saving yourself.

It is the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ which sets one free from the law of sin and death and it is the through the abiding walk that the righteousness of God is manifested and thus fulfilled in us.

One cannot be sinning against God and knowingly doing evil and at the same time abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. That would be the attempted service of two masters, the service of evil whilst one makes a mere profession with the lips.

The issue is the heart.

Have you been set free through obedience to the truth? Or do you think you can be free whilst still in disobedience to the truth?

Freedom and salvation go hand in hand. God saves us from sin, He doesn't save us leaving us in bondage.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
13,419
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#50
Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self-righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).