Tree of "Good and Evil". What is it really?

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T

Tintin

Guest
#21
Using figurative language takes nothing away from scripture being literal but puts emphasis upon what is being said. One can say: "The ground is dry." Very plain and simple but when it is said : "The ground is thirsty." It just emphasizes how dry the ground is. Or this: "It's hot outside." or "It's so hot you can fry an egg!" :cool:

Absolutely, sister. Figurative language still expresses God's truth.
 
Jun 5, 2015
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#22
You see not to be able to grasp the concept of representational language.
You are doing what is called "Projection" in psychology. I grasp it very well, that's why I am able to understand and comment on what the text is indicating. It always amazes me that those who lack knowledge are always the first to condemn and never have an answer to the question at hand. I'll say it again, "What trees do you know of that Envy, aspire to loftiness, or die in hell among mortals?".
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#24
Here is what the Lord revealed to me years ago about the Tree of knowledge....

The Tree of knowledge, to know good from evil, was given as a sign of the natural law.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (tree of knowledge)

When we ate from the tree of the law (knowledge to know good from evil) we then were made aware of our
sins, and then our eyes were opened and we saw our own nakedness; just like with Adam and Eve.

What we once thought was good for us, became
death to us, just as the Lord said; the day you eat of it,surely you shall die.

Romans 6:23;"For the wages of
sin is death
; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It was not the fruit of the tree of knowledge that was
death to us, but rather it was the sinful
nature that worked in our old fleshy minded man.

Romans 7:5;"For when we were in the
flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death
."

So even though we once thought the natural law was life to us, we being evil by nature were decieved, and the natural law(the knowledge to know good from evil) became
death to us by reason of our own sins
.

Romans 7:11;"For
sin taking occassion by the commandment, decieved me, and by it slew me."

Just as the serpent (sin) took occasion by Gods commandment, and deceived woman and man, and therefore sin became death. (wage of sin is death)

But thank God for the mercy he showed us in the spiritual Tree of Life,(Word of Life) which is afforded to all of us who believe in the remission of our sins through the offering of Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
 
Jun 5, 2015
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#25
Well, Jesus said that the stones would cry out to acknowledge Him if people were silenced.

As he (Jesus) was now approaching the path down from the Mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to praise God joyfully with a loud voice for all the deeds of power that they had seen, saying, “Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord!” “Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!” Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, “Teacher, rebuke your disciples!” “I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.”

And there is the account of Balaam's talking donkey, and who can forget the talking serpent in the garden?
This is off topic but!
Another point about the stones are that everything which is created is not made from nothing, but something. My personal belief is that all things are made from God's own being. In the beginning there was God and nothing else. Everything is birthed into being from the Creators essence [whatever that is]. There was no darkness because God is light. Every object has a frequency and light is a frequency. The stones would cry out because every atom or particle is a resonating frequency of light, a piece of God.
 
Jun 5, 2015
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#26
That sounds like the fruit of the ego (pride): Edging God Out.
Yes! Pride and plants are incapable of pride. So the text indicates we are not dealing with plants. We are also not dealing with men, because the men are referred to as "Mortals". So if they are not plants and not men, then what are they? Only when we stay connected to the text do we get understanding.

Much of modern christianity is built upon vain imaginations. These imaginations add, subtract, twist, distort and deny the authority of the text.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#27
Well, I was never taught that it was an apple...and at the end of the day I don't think it was the fruit in itself, but rather the command to not eat of it......the disobedience unto the command of God is what opened their eyes......IMO.....and I agree with TinTIN about the garden being lost to humanity after the flood.........
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#28
You are doing what is called "Projection" in psychology. I grasp it very well, that's why I am able to understand and comment on what the text is indicating. It always amazes me that those who lack knowledge are always the first to condemn and never have an answer to the question at hand. I'll say it again, "What trees do you know of that Envy, aspire to loftiness, or die in hell among mortals?".
No, I am not talking about projection. I am talking about biblical representationalism. That is not the same thing. You are suggesting the tree in the garden possessed human attributes. It did not. God is using the imagery of the tree to describe attributes of Pharaoh in Ezek 31:1-18. God alone assigns meaning to biblical symbols. You are reversing the symbols. The tree is the symbol, not Pharaoh. Perhaps we should take a look at the Tree of "Good and Evil" in Gen and see what we can determine about that tree from that text.
[h=2][/h]
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#29
You are suggesting the tree in the garden possessed human attributes.
I thought he was saying the trees actually were people, in the same way Jesus is said to be the True Vine, not that they were trees in possession of human attributes... the same way Jesus is metaphorically a vine, not a literal vine in possession of human and/or Godly attributes.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,185
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#30
This is off topic but!
Another point about the stones are that everything which is created is not made from nothing, but something. My personal belief is that all things are made from God's own being. In the beginning there was God and nothing else. Everything is birthed into being from the Creators essence [whatever that is]. There was no darkness because God is light. Every object has a frequency and light is a frequency. The stones would cry out because every atom or particle is a resonating frequency of light, a piece of God.
I understand what you are saying; might some people see that as being pantheistic?
 
Jun 5, 2015
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#31
Well, I was never taught that it was an apple...and at the end of the day I don't think it was the fruit in itself, but rather the command to not eat of it......the disobedience unto the command of God is what opened their eyes......IMO.....and I agree with TinTIN about the garden being lost to humanity after the flood.........
The apple is tradition and seen in paintings depicting the fall, which is neither here nor there when understanding the text. What opened their eye was understanding which came from the teacher of Knowledge. Internalizing that Knowledge done something to them. They had learned something which may have been before they were ready. This knowledge would be reckless at their stage of growth. The teachers in the garden were there for a reason. They were there to teach Adam and Eve. Certain knowledge must be with held until there is maturity and Adam and Eve were not ready for what was given to them. So what really was the problem? The verses below explain.

(Gen 3:5 [AKJV])
For [Elohiym] does know that in the day you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and
you shall be as [Elohiym], knowing good and evil.
(Gen 3:22 [AKJV])
And the [Yhovah]
[Elohiym] said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
(Ps 82:6 [AKJV])
I
[Elohiym] have said, You are [Elohiym] ; and all of you are children of the most High [Elyown].

The act of disobedience along with the knowledge would have been compounded if they had learned how to live forever.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#32
The act of disobedience along with the knowledge would have been compounded if they had learned how to live forever.
Yes, after they disobeyed, the Tree of Life was barred from them.
 
Jun 5, 2015
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#33
I understand what you are saying; might some people see that as being pantheistic?
They can call it what ever they want, but that does not change the fact that God is all in all and everything is held together by His word. All things exist because He is. Pantheistic thought is that I can speak to the rock as God. Of course that is nonsense. There is no consciousness as a person to speak to or with in pantheism, just a mindless force. God is Love, you can't get that from a rock. ;)
[Pantheism is the belief that the Universe (or Nature as the totality of everything) is identical with divinity,[SUP][1][/SUP] or that everything composes an all-encompassing, immanent God.[SUP][2][/SUP] Pantheists thus do not believe in a distinct personal or anthropomorphic god.[3]
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#34
I thought he was saying the trees actually were people, in the same way Jesus is said to be the True Vine, not that they were trees in possession of human attributes... the same way Jesus is metaphorically a vine, not a literal vine in possession of human and/or Godly attributes.
Maybe he was.
 
Jun 5, 2015
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#35
Yes, after they disobeyed, the Tree of Life was barred from them.
They would have been placed in an eternal state of disobedience.
Now this raises another question. satan is a being who is for all intent and purposes an eternal being. So what would have been the difference if two [A&E] were added to the eternal mix? This may point to that men were created to be forever. Where as satan and other fallen angels will cease to exist according to the verse below.
(Ezek 28:19 [CPDV])
All who gaze upon you among the Gentiles will be stupefied over you.
You were made out of nothing, and you shall not be, forever.”
(Ezek 28:19 [LEB])
All who know you among the peoples are appalled over you; you have become as horrors, and
you shall cease to exist forever.” ’ ”
(Ezek 28:19 [HCSB])
All those who know you among the nations are appalled at you. You have become an object of horror and
will never exist again.”
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#36
Ezekiel 31 Give us a glimpse into what was happening in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were not eating an apple as we were taught. The tree was not a green leafy tree under which they sat. The scripture many times uses metaphors to explain simple truths. I think these metaphors come about, because the real meaning has been lost over time. I'm sure the book of Genesis was given by oral tradition for years until written down.

Ezek 31:1-18...., the word of the LORD came to me: “Son of man, say to Pharaoh king of Egypt and his hordes: ​​​​​​“‘Who are you like in your greatness? ​​​Consider Assyria, a cedar in Lebanon, ​​​​​​with beautiful branches, like a forest giving shade, ​​​​​​and extremely tall; ​​​​​​its top reached into the clouds. ​​​​​​​The water made it grow; ​​​​​​underground springs made it grow tall. ​​​​​​Rivers flowed all around the place it was planted, ​​​​​​while smaller channels watered all the trees of the field. ​​​​​​​Therefore it grew taller than all the trees of the field; ​​​​​​its boughs grew large and its branches grew long, ​​​​​​because of the plentiful water in its shoots. ​​​​​​​All the birds of the sky nested in its boughs; ​​​​​​under its branches all the beasts of the field gave birth, ​​​​​​in its shade all the great nations lived. ​​​​​​​It was beautiful in its loftiness, in the length of its branches; ​​​​​​for its roots went down deep to plentiful waters. ​​​​​​​The cedars in the garden of God could not eclipse it, ​​​​​​nor could the fir trees match its boughs; ​​​​​​the plane trees were as nothing compared to its branches; ​​​​​​no tree in the garden of God could rival its beauty. ​​​​​​​I made it beautiful with its many branches; ​​​​​​all the trees of Eden, in the garden of God, envied it.
“‘Therefore this is what the sovereign LORD says: Because it was tall in stature, and its top reached into the clouds, and it was proud of its height,
I gave it over to the leader of the nations. He has judged it thoroughly, as its sinfulness deserves. I have thrown it out. Foreigners from the most terrifying nations have cut it down and left it to lie there on the mountains. In all the valleys its branches have fallen, and its boughs lie broken in the ravines of the land. All the peoples of the land have departed from its shade and left it. On its ruins all the birds of the sky will live, and all the wild animals will walk on its branches. For this reason no watered trees will grow so tall; their tops will not reach into the clouds, nor will the well-watered ones grow that high. For all of them have been appointed to die in the lower parts of the earth; they will be among mere mortals, with those who descend to the pit. “‘This is what the sovereign LORD says: On the day it went down to Sheol I caused observers to lament. I covered it with the deep and held back its rivers; its plentiful water was restrained. I clothed Lebanon in black for it, and all the trees of the field wilted because of it. I made the nations shake at the sound of its fall, when I threw it down to Sheol, along with those who descend to the pit. Then all the trees of Eden, the choicest and the best of Lebanon, all that were well-watered, were comforted in the earth below. Those who lived in its shade, its allies among the nations, also went down with it to Sheol, to those killed by the sword.Which of the trees of Eden was like you in majesty and loftiness? You will be brought down with the trees of Eden to the lower parts of the earth; you will lie among the uncircumcised, with those killed by the sword! This is what will happen to Pharaoh and all his hordes, declares the sovereign LORD.’”

The trees spoken of go back to the Garden of Eden, which means they were thousands of years old. These were not men because men are mentioned in the text. These were beyond men and existed in the Garden of Eden. When Adam was told to tend to the trees of the Garden, he was tending to teachers who bore fruit [teachings]. When Eve brought Adam fruit to eat, it was teachings. The trees are angelic beings who are over countries and existed from the time of the Garden of Eden.
I believe these verses speak of Gods Client nation.3~~Behold, Assyria was a cedar in Lebanon . . .


Great prosperity,blessings,blessings by association to other nations,a strong pivot of believers,Gods word(water) flows from it.............when the Nation becomes negative to Gods words and forgets where the blessings come from. becomes proud and the pivot of believers leave. God cuts that nation down with extreme discipline.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#37
It doesn't matter, but I would not be surprised if the tree of good and evil was a fig tree.
 
Jun 5, 2015
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#38
No, I am not talking about projection. I am talking about biblical representationalism. That is not the same thing. You are suggesting the tree in the garden possessed human attributes. It did not. God is using the imagery of the tree to describe attributes of Pharaoh in Ezek 31:1-18. God alone assigns meaning to biblical symbols. You are reversing the symbols. The tree is the symbol, not Pharaoh. Perhaps we should take a look at the Tree of "Good and Evil" in Gen and see what we can determine about that tree from that text.

Pharaoh was not in the Garden of Eden read the text.
The prophet was prophesying against the man Pharaoh, but the prophet was also speaking against the spiritual entity who was empowering Pharaoh. Its the same situation when Danial was praying and it took nearly a month before the angel broke through the powers of darkness to deliver him the message. The angel said he was withstood by the Prince of Persia. The Prince of Persia was not a man but a spiritual being.

The same situation is found with the king of Tyre. The prophet speaks against the king and the spiritual entity controlling the king.
The attributes of the trees are indicative of personalities, which means consciousness, and since they lived in the Garden they were not Pharaoh nor human.
So you are assigning things to the text it does not say. You are adding and subtracting from the text but certainly not dealing with it as it is written.
Since you don't understand the totality of the text just ask me and I'll explain it, but don't
project your inability to understand the text onto me.
 
Jun 5, 2015
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#39
I believe these verses speak of Gods Client nation.3~~Behold, Assyria was a cedar in Lebanon . . .


Great prosperity,blessings,blessings by association to other nations,a strong pivot of believers,Gods word(water) flows from it.............when the Nation becomes negative to Gods words and forgets where the blessings come from. becomes proud and the pivot of believers leave. God cuts that nation down with extreme discipline.
There are a few things being equated in this passage. In order to understand the passage you have to separate the different comparisons. It deals with a few nations and jumps from then present to past. It compares leaders of nations and then jumps back to the garden and deals with spiritual entities which existed in the garden. It compares one entity in the garden to another and how the others looked up to them. Then it jumps to the future where the controlling entities and men are thrown into hell. If you try and read the text in one continuous time line and from a view point its only humans being spoken about you will not get it.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,185
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#40
They would have been placed in an eternal state of disobedience.
Now this raises another question. satan is a being who is for all intent and purposes an eternal being. So what would have been the difference if two [A&E] were added to the eternal mix? This may point to that men were created to be forever. Where as satan and other fallen angels will cease to exist according to the verse below.
(Ezek 28:19 [CPDV])
All who gaze upon you among the Gentiles will be stupefied over you.
You were made out of nothing, and you shall not be, forever.”
(Ezek 28:19 [LEB])
All who know you among the peoples are appalled over you; you have become as horrors, and
you shall cease to exist forever.” ’ ”
(Ezek 28:19 [HCSB])
All those who know you among the nations are appalled at you. You have become an object of horror and
will never exist again.”
The Lake of Fire was created for them, for their destruction...
 
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