Tree of "Good and Evil". What is it really?

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RussellJBenigno

RussellJBenigno

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#41
Magenta said:
I thought he was saying the trees actually were people, in the same way Jesus is said to be the True Vine, not that they were trees in possession of human attributes... the same way Jesus is metaphorically a vine, not a literal vine in possession of human and/or Godly attributes.
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Correct! I'm not speaking about wooden leafy trees. The trees are symbolic of something else. That's what this thread is about. The Tree of Life is later mentioned in scripture and points to Jesus. The trees in the garden were not leafy plants, but beings set there to teach A&E. And A&E spoke to a teacher they had no business speaking too.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

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#42
Jul 28, 2012
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#42
RussellJBenigno said:

Pharaoh was not in the Garden of Eden read the text.
The prophet was prophesying against the man Pharaoh, but the prophet was also speaking against the spiritual entity who was empowering Pharaoh. Its the same situation when Danial was praying and it took nearly a month before the angel broke through the powers of darkness to deliver him the message. The angel said he was withstood by the Prince of Persia. The Prince of Persia was not a man but a spiritual being.
The same situation is found with the king of Tyre. The prophet speaks against the king and the spiritual entity controlling the king.
The attributes of the trees are indicative of personalities, which means consciousness, and since they lived in the Garden they were not Pharaoh nor human.
So you are assigning things to the text it does not say. You are adding and subtracting from the text but certainly not dealing with it as it is written.
Since you don't understand the totality of the text just ask me and I'll explain it, but don't project your inability to understand the text onto me.
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The object of the language is identified in verse two as Pharaoh, king of Egypt whom God compares to the greatness he had given Assyria. All of this language is symbolic to describe the greatness that God had given both of these nations. Everything that follows is directly related to the Pharaoh.
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

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#43
Sep 20, 2012
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#43
RussellJBenigno said:
What is being explored here is the existence of other beings. These beings are referenced to being in the Garden of Eden. I don't delve into how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Just what is presented in the text and if the text does not say then I will not make it say something which is not there. Formulating what Adam and Eve done with satan is just merely conjecture and wild imagination. However, on the other hand if these references refer to other beings, then what were they doing in the garden. What was their interaction with Adam? If there was a being or teacher of knowledge, then what was this knowledge? If Adam and Eve were not supposed to have this knowledge then why was this teacher of knowledge present? The answers must be found in scripture and not in additions and subtractions of the text driven by wild imagination.
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Your thread is titled "the tree of life". You then go on in the body to talk about a whole bunch of other 'trees', which you believe are not bark and leaf type trees but living beings of some sort. I merely shared an idea I had heard before along that same line, focusing on the tree of life since that was your introductory focus. You wanted to know about the being called the tree of life, I merely offered up an idea that conformed with your idea that it is a being (and a specific being) that interacted with A&E. Why you dismiss that as being off topic I don't know.
 
RussellJBenigno

RussellJBenigno

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#44
Jun 5, 2015
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#44
oldhermit said:
The object of the language is identified in verse two as Pharaoh, king of Egypt whom God compares to the greatness he had given Assyria. All of this language is symbolic to describe the greatness that God had given both of these nations. Everything that follows is directly related to the Pharaoh.
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Obliviously you have problems in understanding what is being said and cannot connect the dots. You can't answer simple questions.
For those who can understand. Pharaoh [the man] was not in the garden of Eden. The question is: "Who is this Pharaoh who was a tree in the garden?" Anyone who understands spiritual warfare knows that there are fallen angels who are placed over geographical areas as well as governments. I mentioned them in the a fore post [Prince of Persia]. So the very very very simple question which can't be answered is: "Who is this Pharaoh who was a tree in the garden"? And don't tell me it was the human Pharaoh.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

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#45
Jul 28, 2012
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#45
RussellJBenigno said:
Obliviously you have problems in understanding what is being said and cannot connect the dots. You can't answer simple questions.
For those who can understand. Pharaoh [the man] was not in the garden of Eden. The question is: "Who is this Pharaoh who was a tree in the garden?" Anyone who understands spiritual warfare knows that there are fallen angels who are placed over geographical areas as well as governments. I mentioned them in the a fore post [Prince of Persia]. So the very very very simple question which can't be answered is: "Who is this Pharaoh who was a tree in the garden"? And don't tell me it was the human Pharaoh.
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You think the tree of good and evil was not a literal tree and you think I am the one who does not understand???????
 
J

jaybird88

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#48
#48
This passage has lessons in lessons in lessons if you know what I mean, very deep.
One thing I see, the Hebrews came from Egypt and at one time they worshiped in the same manner. There is evidence that pre dynastic Egypt was monotheistic. Egypt fell and the Hebrews left, separating themselves so they could continue and worship the one true creator the Lord of Israel.
The Egyptians would rise in boldness and arrogance which I believe lead them in rebelling against our Lord. Polytheism lead the Canaanites to this so it only makes logical sense it would lead the Egyptians down the same road.
The Lord is warning the Egyptians that no matter how high and great the become, He can easily strike them back down just like He has done to other nations that provoked and rebelled against the Lord Almighty.
Thats how I see it but I thnk there is much more to the story
 
RussellJBenigno

RussellJBenigno

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#49
Jun 5, 2015
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#49
Magenta said:
The prince of this world? (John 12:31)
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Good guess! There are multiple places in scripture which refer to the powers of darkness in high places. When Danial was told by the angel that the Prince of Persia had held him back we have a picture of spiritual warfare. We see in that passage that Michael the Arc Angel had to assist in the fight. There are ranks within satans army, as well as heavens army, from foot soldier to general. Each has a different level of power. The one in this case of Pharaoh is high ranking, because he is controlling Pharaoh and the country. The prophet prophecies at two levels, one in the spirit and the other in the flesh. The powers of darkness need to be defeated as well as the human factor.
(Dan 10:12-13 [HCSB])
“Don’t be afraid, Daniel,” he said to me, “for from the first day that you purposed to understand and to humble yourself before your God, your prayers were heard. I have come because of your prayers. But the prince of the kingdom of Persia opposed me for 21 days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me after I had been left there with the kings of Persia.
Now the king of Tyre has a prince as well and it is revealed as satan. Ezek 28:2 is speaking about the man, but Ezek 28:12-13 is speaking about satan. Both are prophesied against by the prophet. The spiritual is dealt with and then the humanity.
(Ezek 28:2 [HCSB])
“Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre: This is what the Lord GOD says: Your heart is proud, and you have said, ‘I am a god; I sit in the seat of gods in the heart of the sea.’ Yet you are a man and not a god, though you have regarded your heart as that of a god.

(Ezek 28:12-13 [HCSB])
“Son of man, lament for the king of Tyre and say to him: This is what the Lord GOD says: You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God. Every kind of precious stone covered you: carnelian, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and emerald. Your mountings and settings were crafted in gold; they were prepared on the day you were created.
Now it is foolishness to say the King of Tyre was in the garden, but yet we have the same phase as in Ezekiel.So while the man Pharaoh is being spoken against, his controlling spirit is also being spoken against. And we learn this controlling spirit was in the garden of Eden just as the King of Tyre [satan] was also in the garden.
This all points to many different individuals being present in the garden that Adam and Eve were interacting with at one level or another. The scripture identifies them as Trees.
 
RussellJBenigno

RussellJBenigno

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#50
Jun 5, 2015
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#50
jaybird88 said:
This passage has lessons in lessons in lessons if you know what I mean, very deep.
One thing I see, the Hebrews came from Egypt and at one time they worshiped in the same manner. There is evidence that pre dynastic Egypt was monotheistic. Egypt fell and the Hebrews left, separating themselves so they could continue and worship the one true creator the Lord of Israel.
The Egyptians would rise in boldness and arrogance which I believe lead them in rebelling against our Lord. Polytheism lead the Canaanites to this so it only makes logical sense it would lead the Egyptians down the same road.
The Lord is warning the Egyptians that no matter how high and great the become, He can easily strike them back down just like He has done to other nations that provoked and rebelled against the Lord Almighty.
Thats how I see it but I thnk there is much more to the story
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Yes! There are multiple levels of lessons in this. Yes! There was a period when Egypt was monotheistic. Yes! God is warning them that they will be struck down. But the spirit world as well is being warned.
 
RussellJBenigno

RussellJBenigno

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#51
Jun 5, 2015
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#51
RickyZ said:
Your thread is titled "the tree of life". You then go on in the body to talk about a whole bunch of other 'trees', which you believe are not bark and leaf type trees but living beings of some sort. I merely shared an idea I had heard before along that same line, focusing on the tree of life since that was your introductory focus. You wanted to know about the being called the tree of life, I merely offered up an idea that conformed with your idea that it is a being (and a specific being) that interacted with A&E. Why you dismiss that as being off topic I don't know.
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I'm sorry you thought I was saying you were off topic. [I'll go back and check what I said] I was referring to myself being of topic about everything being created from the essence of God Himself. That was off topic. The tree of life and the others [tree of knowledge] are the topic. The point of all this is to demonstrate that these trees are more than just regular ole trees. The tree of Life is not a physical tree of the wood and leaf type. It is the Christ who is that tree. I brought the other trees up to prove a point in that there were other being present in the garden.
 
RussellJBenigno

RussellJBenigno

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#52
Jun 5, 2015
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#52
oldhermit said:
This guy is talking nonsense. There was no Pharaoh in the Garden narrative of Gen 3.
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Which of the trees of Eden was like you in majesty and loftiness? You will be brought down with the trees of Eden to the lower parts of the earth; you will lie among the uncircumcised, with those killed by the sword! This is what will happen to Pharaoh and all his hordes, declares the sovereign LORD.’”

Seriously, Are you illiterate????????WOW!
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#53
#53
i think adam and eve were real people but also believe they along with the garden were symbolic of a golden age. an age nothing like our world today. our Lord was in the garden with Adam, they heard Him walking and talking. all this is symbolic of a time when mankind had a much greater connection with the Lord and spirituality. Jesus was sent to re establish this connection that was lost when mankind fell.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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#54
Jul 3, 2015
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#54
RussellJBenigno said:
(Ezek 28:2 [HCSB])
“Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre: This is what the Lord GOD says: Your heart is proud, and you have said, ‘I am a god; I sit in the seat of gods in the heart of the sea.’ Yet you are a man and not a god, though you have regarded your heart as that of a god.

(Ezek 28:12-13 [HCSB])
“Son of man, lament for the king of Tyre and say to him: This is what the Lord GOD says: You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God. Every kind of precious stone covered you: carnelian, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and emerald. Your mountings and settings were crafted in gold; they were prepared on the day you were created.
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Ezek 28:14-15

“You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
“You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you."
 
RussellJBenigno

RussellJBenigno

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#55
Jun 5, 2015
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#55
RickyZ said:
I've heard teachings like this before and while I don't ascribe to them I believe they raise some interesting points. There's one theory where the tree of knowledge was actually satan and the eating thereof was Eve and then Adam doing the nasty with him, they had been forbidden of course and the knowledge they took from the experience was about the flesh. Again, I'm not a subscriber to the theory, but the first thing they did do is cover their flesh. There's much in these theories that, while maybe not the whole truth, still provide food for thought.
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The topic is Tree of Good and Evil, since it is mentioned in the Genesis account. However in order to explore the topic I wanted to bring in the other references to trees especially since they refer to other beings. To look at the tree of Good and Evil I needed to create a base point that it was not a standard tree. The tree of Good and Evil is a teacher. I suspect a teacher set in the Garden to train Adam and Eve. Since Adam only knew of "Good" this presented a problem when "Evil" was brought into the picture. Once again I suspect Adam was not equipped to deal with such knowledge. The ultimate goal of God was for hm to partake of the Tree of Life. Some how Adam partaking of the teachings of Good and Evil derailed his progress. I 'm up for suggestions about the tree of Good and Evil ruining a good day for Adam and mankind. To conjecture that this was a sexual situation with satan I have heard before, but I not sure I'm willing to subscribe to that since it is not clear in the text. We must be careful not to add nor subtract from scripture and place things in the text which are not there. If the scripture is obvious about a subject we must stick to it and be firm. If the scripture is vague we can take a guess, but never treat our guess as concrete.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

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#56
#56
ezekiel is using obvious figurative language when he is talking about the trees...so we should not take ezekiel's words to be a literal description of the situation in the garden of eden...

so we are still obligated to go by the plain meaning of genesis 2 and 3 when we want a description of the literal situation in the garden...

the tree of knowledge of good and evil was a real tree...the species does not matter because it could have been any kind of fruit bearing tree...even possibly an individual tree of one of the tree species in the garden that was given to adam and eve to eat...

it was not a 'magic tree' with the power to supernaturally give knowledge of good and evil...the knowledge did not come from the tree itself but from the fact that God gave a command regarding the tree and an alternative to God's command was then issued by the serpent...the tree and the associated choice then became an object lesson defining good and evil by example...it was good to obey God and not eat from the tree...it was evil to listen to the serpent and eat from the tree...
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

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#57
Jul 28, 2012
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#57
RussellJBenigno said:
Which of the trees of Eden was like you in majesty and loftiness? You will be brought down with the trees of Eden to the lower parts of the earth; you will lie among the uncircumcised, with those killed by the sword!This is what will happen to Pharaoh and all his hordes, declares the sovereign LORD.’”

Seriously, Are you illiterate????????WOW!
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So, you think this one text (which you clearly have no clue about) somehow overturns the entire narrative of Gen. 3?
 
RussellJBenigno

RussellJBenigno

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#58
Jun 5, 2015
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#58
oldhermit said:
So, you think this one text (which you clearly have no clue about) somehow overturns the entire narrative of Gen. 3?
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Since you do not have the ability to understand anything written to you I will break this down for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear. The prophet has every right by the Holy Spirit to add to Gen 3 as God see's fit.
Which of the trees of Eden was like you [the spirit\being controlling Pharaoh] in majesty and loftiness? You [the spirit\being controlling Pharaoh]will be brought down with the trees of Eden [other controlling spirit\beings] to the lower parts [hell or grave] of the earth; you [the spirit\being controlling Pharaoh]will lie among the uncircumcised [mortal men], with those killed by the sword! This is what will happen to Pharaoh [the man] and all his hordes, declares the sovereign LORD.’”
Those who have the Holy Spirit of God will understand this and will appreciate this insight. So give me a shout! Those who have questions about it I will be glad to clarify.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#59
#59
Tintin said:
No. Don't over-spiritualise everything. The trees were trees. Besides, the Garden of Eden was lost to this world when the Great Flood of Noah's time covered the earth's entirety.
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trees were trees and men were men but we shouldnt forget, in the days of Adam men lived 900 plus years. it was a different world back then.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

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#60
Jul 28, 2012
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#60
RussellJBenigno said:
Since you do not have the ability to understand anything written to you I will break this down for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear. The prophet has every right by the Holy Spirit to add to Gen 3 as God see's fit.
Which of the trees of Eden was like you [the spirit\being controlling Pharaoh] in majesty and loftiness? You [the spirit\being controlling Pharaoh]will be brought down with the trees of Eden [other controlling spirit\beings] to the lower parts [hell or grave] of the earth; you [the spirit\being controlling Pharaoh]will lie among the uncircumcised [mortal men], with those killed by the sword! This is what will happen to Pharaoh [the man] and all his hordes, declares the sovereign LORD.’”
Those who have the Holy Spirit of God will understand this and will appreciate this insight. So give me a shout! Those who have questions about it I will be glad to clarify.
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Since you are so convinced of this perhaps you would not mind engaging me in a little exegesis of Gen 3 and we will see just how sound your theory is...that is if you are not afraid.
 
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