For those who say they were saved before they spoke in tongues....

[convallaria]

God bless you all

The gift of tongues is from God - our new heavenly language.
Some want and receive it, some dont.

And it is awesome if you do, coz then you can pray in the Spirit, and know exactly what that piece of Scripture means "praying in the Spirit."

We always pray in the Spirit, as we are moved...at the supermarket or sitting on the toilet. It makes no difference to God. He just loves that we are praying in the Spirit. I sing in the Spirit too as I am overcome with the joy of the Lord. Awesome.

Heavenly Father, I ask in Jesus name, that You will lay your hand upon everyone who reads this.
That You will impart this gift into the hearts of all the scoffers and mockers here Father, so that they will truly understand its meaning...and lose all fear of this awesome gift, and that Your glory be revealed awhen they know it came from You.
Amen
Thankyou Father, Thankyou

Amen !!!

Thank you Standing for your gracious contributions

 

[WoundedWarrior]

A couple of questions. First, how is it, exactly, that you know God won't compel one to speak in tongues? He kept after Jonah 'til Jonah complied. Are you saying that when God wants something from you and doesn't get it He doesn't try more than once? Of course, you can show scripture to support that, can't you. You wouldn't say something about God that the bible doesn't say, would you?
So go ahead, be a dear, and give chapter and verse for that supposition. I'm going to admit that my memory isn't the best, but I've read my bible front to back 4 times and many more than that just piece-meal. I'm sure I must have just forgot that passage.
Another thing, do you only speak tongues in your church, or do you speak it in others also? How many interpreters are there in your church? Are they all men, or are some of them women? If you speak tongues elsewhere, do those interpreters follow you to those locations? Or is there some kind of network where you tongues folks know of the interpreters names and request them to be there when you want to speak?
Because I know you wouldn't do something the bible forbids, and Paul clearly said don't speak in tongues without an interpreter, and that means everyone knows who the interpreter is beforehand, now doesn't it?

So help me out here and clear up some of these puzzling things for me, will you?

Sounds like arguing for the purpose of arguing...

When you get rid of your sarcasm and ask a question because you genuinely want an answer, I may respond.

Yep, my thoughts exactly. Do people feel good about themselves, when they are condescending and sarcastic to people? What's the purpose? A self-centered goal of tearing down others, or pointing out their flaws? Seems too many folks here on CC are more interested in bickering than building. Seems like a good goal would be honest truth-seeking and fellowship.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Mark 16:
[SUP]17[/SUP] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

You have to get born again, and read your Bible or you will never see it. Many many references to tongues in the NT as a gift of the Spirit.

1. It is very questionable that this is even true scripture and was not added many years after Christ was alive on earth.
2. many christians have eaten poison accidently and have died, or bitten by snakes and have died. So either A - number one is true (which is most likely the case) or B - not everyone will experience these things. which means 3 - your in error. no matter which one is true

 

[phil112]

When you get rid of your sarcasm and ask a question because you genuinely want an answer, I may respond.

I already know the answer. I have read the book. You can't answer. You are propagating a false doctrine and you know it. If I am wrong, prove it with scripture. You have been proven wrong with scripture. If you are correct, the questions I have asked are valid. Show me where in the bible those answers are.

Sounds like arguing for the purpose of arguing...



Yep, my thoughts exactly. Do people feel good about themselves, when they are condescending and sarcastic to people? What's the purpose? A self-centered goal of tearing down others, or pointing out their flaws? Seems too many folks here on CC are more interested in bickering than building. Seems like a good goal would be honest truth-seeking and fellowship.

What's wounded about you? Your pride? Sarcasm is certainly a valid response to ridiculous doctrine. Condescension is a normal response to people that have need of milk yet continue to choke on strong meat after having been repeatedly shown the error they are making.

I have little use for handling false doctrine with kid gloves.

 

[phil112]

When you get rid of your sarcasm and ask a question because you genuinely want an answer, I may respond.

Here is a teachable moment. Are you correct? I never deny scripture. Show me the scriptures that answer my questions. I beg of you.
I genuinely want to see them.

 

[JesusLives]

I don't recall the Bible telling us that Jesus ever spoke in tongues.....I want to become more like Jesus and if He deems it a need for me to speak in tongues then that is up to Him, but I don't recall ever reading that Jesus spoke in tongues......

 

[JesusLives]

My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

I already know the answer. I have read the book. You can't answer. You are propagating a false doctrine and you know it. If I am wrong, prove it with scripture. You have been proven wrong with scripture. If you are correct, the questions I have asked are valid. Show me where in the bible those answers are.

What's wounded about you? Your pride? Sarcasm is certainly a valid response to ridiculous doctrine. Condescension is a normal response to people that have need of milk yet continue to choke on strong meat after having been repeatedly shown the error they are making.

I have little use for handling false doctrine with kid gloves.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

For your own comfort and peace of mind you need evidence of the Spirit. We all need some evidence that we can't put down to positive thinking or imagination...because the devil will surely use that to bomb you off track as soon as some trouble arises in your life that makes things uncomfortable.

If a person doesn't recognize that faith has made a difference in them, then perhaps they need to examine themselves to see if they really do believe for salvation. I knew the instant I was saved I was different, and while I know most don't have this experience, I felt the Holy Spirit enter into me!

Far be it from me to claim that, if someone didn't feel Him enter into them, they are not saved. But someone saved doesn't need some constant and artificial "reassurance" that He is there. The believer knows that he/she knows that he/she knows.

If you don't, you might have a problem.

 

[posthuman]

I don't know why you would have trouble with "evidence of the Spirit", and I meant "one needs" as much as "you need" or "I need".

i don't know why you think i "have trouble" ?
please don't worry. because there is no trouble that my Helper cannot handle.

what i need - and what you need, and what "one" needs is faith. without this, it is impossible to please God.
God took away from me all the things i thought i should trust above Him. so that i would apprehend that what i need to trust is Him. not signs, not wonders, not 'gifts.'
when i learned to trust solely in Him, He added these things back to me.

all these things can be counterfeit. didn't Janis & Jambres also perform wonders before Pharoah? didn't Simon the sorcerer do these things too? doesn't John's revelation tell us that the beast from the earth will do many great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven in full view of the people? in order to deceive many? and my Lord Himself told me:

For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time.
(Matthew 24:24-25)​

so now why should my hope be in signs and wonders?
why should i trust in signs and wonders?
why should i need signs and wonders?

without faith it is impossible to please God, and faith is the substance of hope, the evidence of things unseen. my Lord also says "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
so i believe Him.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

Here is a teachable moment. Are you correct? I never deny scripture. Show me the scriptures that answer my questions. I beg of you.
I genuinely want to see them.

Phil,

Perhaps instead of jumping on the opportunity to correct this woman's words, how about you FIRST ask her to clarify.

Here's what she said:

If you read my posts properly you will see I have said clearly that speaking in tongues is ONE example of evidence (or a sign) of the Holy Spirit, but not the only one. I didn't say everyone has to speak in tongues, but I did say that if you don't want to speak in tongues God will not compel you.

Now let's look at your response:

A couple of questions. First, how is it, exactly, that you know God won't compel one to speak in tongues? He kept after Jonah 'til Jonah complied. Are you saying that when God wants something from you and doesn't get it He doesn't try more than once? Of course, you can show scripture to support that, can't you. You wouldn't say something about God that the bible doesn't say, would you?
So go ahead, be a dear, and give chapter and verse for that supposition. I'm going to admit that my memory isn't the best, but I've read my bible front to back 4 times and many more than that just piece-meal. I'm sure I must have just forgot that passage.
Another thing, do you only speak tongues in your church, or do you speak it in others also? How many interpreters are there in your church? Are they all men, or are some of them women? If you speak tongues elsewhere, do those interpreters follow you to those locations? Or is there some kind of network where you tongues folks know of the interpreters names and request them to be there when you want to speak?
Because I know you wouldn't do something the bible forbids, and Paul clearly said don't speak in tongues without an interpreter, and that means everyone knows who the interpreter is beforehand, now doesn't it?

So help me out here and clear up some of these puzzling things for me, will you?

Here was her response to you:

When you get rid of your sarcasm and ask a question because you genuinely want an answer, I may respond.

I agreed with her assessment of your words: Here

And here's your response (even after two people challenged the sincerity of your comment):

I already know the answer. I have read the book. You can't answer. You are propagating a false doctrine and you know it. If I am wrong, prove it with scripture. You have been proven wrong with scripture. If you are correct, the questions I have asked are valid. Show me where in the bible those answers are.

Talk about skinning something before it's dead! Calm down and take a deep breath man! You're trying to prove a point, before you even understand what she said. Ask for clairifcation before you assume. This is why your previous questions went ignored - because she (and we) can see, so clearly, that your intentions are not pure; you intend to make corrections and rush to conclusions, before first asking for clarification.

And then there's your response to me:

What's wounded about you? Your pride? Sarcasm is certainly a valid response to ridiculous doctrine. Condescension is a normal response to people that have need of milk yet continue to choke on strong meat after having been repeatedly shown the error they are making.

I have little use for handling false doctrine with kid gloves.

No, but sounds like yours is, pal. Was Jesus condescending and sarcastic toward his followers?

Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, Self-Control (Gal 5:22-23)

-And-

In case you're still steaming over this,
I've decided to break down what you said,
"Barney-style",
so that we're all on the same page:

A couple of questions. First, how is it, exactly, that you know God won't compel one to speak in tongues?

-This is a valid question, and would (likely) have been well-received, if you had simply left it at that.

He kept after Jonah 'til Jonah complied.

-This is a defense for the opposing argument, but has been introduced early (Because you haven't given the person a chance to answer the first question).

Are you saying that when God wants something from you and doesn't get it He doesn't try more than once?

-Now you've moved back to the original question, and expanded on it. Again, should have just stopped here (if you honestly wanted your questions to be considered).

Of course, you can show scripture to support that, can't you. You wouldn't say something about God that the bible doesn't say, would you? So go ahead, be a dear, and give chapter and verse for that supposition. I'm going to admit that my memory isn't the best, but I've read my bible front to back 4 times and many more than that just piece-meal. I'm sure I must have just forgot that passage.

-This is very sarcastic in tone and condescending to the individual. Your words, here, communicate your lack of sincerity, as well as shed some light into your character. Ultimately, you are showing us (the public) how insincere and ignorant you are.

Another thing, do you only speak tongues in your church, or do you speak it in others also? How many interpreters are there in your church? Are they all men, or are some of them women? If you speak tongues elsewhere, do those interpreters follow you to those locations? Or is there some kind of network where you tongues folks know of the interpreters names and request them to be there when you want to speak?
Because I know you wouldn't do something the bible forbids, and Paul clearly said don't speak in tongues without an interpreter, and that means everyone knows who the interpreter is beforehand, now doesn't it? So help me out here and clear up some of these puzzling things for me, will you?

-This is mostly just a continuation of the previous; Again, asking questions that could be good questions -- if you were sincere, but obviously you're not.

Best to keep those 'kid-gloves' on (at least in public), Phil.

Ephesians 4:32 ESV
Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

 

[posthuman]

I do feel Paul had the right angle...1 Cor 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

i think so too.

So he is saying here he is grateful that he speaks in tongues both the unknown kind (1 Cor 14:2) such as we are discussing, through which we are speaking mysteries unto God, AND those in the congregation with understanding and/or interpretation. He does both because they are both good, but also because the love of God compels him, he knows that it is not all about him, but about the ministry God has towards His flock....so he prefers to speak a tongue which teaches the hearers in the church.Yet we are not orphans and we do not stop being children of God when we are not in the church. So we have that comfort of the other kind of tongue gift when we are alone in the prayer closet.

let's not get starry eyed at the thought of mystery and forget that he says he wold rather speak 5 intelligible words than a thousand words that don't benefit anyone who hears them.
& he doesn't say that he speaks in unknown tongues - he only says he'd rather not. sure and you can take that as an implication that he does, but it's not what the text says.

I don't know if we are on the same page. I am worrying about what you said, that you feel you have no need of evidence of the Holy Spirit. That might be because you have already received the evidence of tongues as you said, but to say that on a public forum could lead others to believe they don't need any evidence, and shouldn't bother to desire it.

i don't need a carnal "evidence" because i have faith.

speaking in tongues is not tantamount to having the Spirit - especially not when no one can interpret them. as i pointed out in the post above, Satan can also produce signs and wonders, so the mere presence of a sign of some kind is not unequivocally evidence of the Spirit. especially when considering 'unknown tongues' - that not even the one speaking understands! how much power does it take for someone to speak gibberish? how easy is that to fake? and in the climate of an assembly where it's being taught that doing so is among the highest forms of praise, even a necessary expression to 'prove' what should be a matter of faith, how much compulsion is there to fake it?

so i think it is far more damaging to imply on a public forum that speaking in an unintelligible tongue is a necessary or needful evidence of salvation than it is to state that i am satisfied to believe and wait on my God, taking Him at His word. does that make sense?

Back to an earlier point, as the scripture says, Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

To me, if a person has no evidence of the Holy Spirit, and no desire for any evidence, there is a hefty chance they are "none of His".

the Lord walked among the children of Israel, but they did not know Him. they asked him to show them great signs. He lamented that a wicked and adulterous generation seeks a sign - then He left them and went away.

to me, if a person needs a physical wonder to know the one they say they believe in, there is a hefty chance that they do not have faith.

need and desire are different things.
remember what Paul desired? to speak even a few intelligible words that might prosper the hearer.
remember what Paul said we ought to desire? wisdom. faith. knowledge. those are the 'greater gifts' -- not unintelligible speech. and love is still a more excellent way than these.

don't worry for me - i asked that God give me wisdom, and faith - and is He not faithful?
so if i say "i don't need evidence" it's because i already have all that i need - Christ. this is the One who we first should seek, and then let Him add to us whatever He desires for us. ♥

 

[posthuman]

The gift of tongues is from God - our new heavenly language.

And it is awesome if you do, coz then you can pray in the Spirit, and know exactly what that piece of Scripture means "praying in the Spirit."

let's clear something up about how the Spirit prays before we steer this bus into a ditch:

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities:
for we know not what we should pray for as we ought:
but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
(Romans 8:26)​

in my estimation the scripture says if you can utter it, it's not the language of the Spirit.
yes?

 

[Utah]

So what are you going to do with this verse?
1 Cor 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

It is not our ignorance of the Word, but yours.

And to go one step further by calling a gift of the Spirit foolish jibberish is very unwise, and likely to lead you into blasphemy.

Not to mention calling the children of God fools:

Matt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

And that goes for you phil, utah, gr8grace and anyone else who agrees with it.

Who's angry that you have the gift of tongues? Not me. I'm merely setting the record straight that people don't need the gift of tongues to be saved. Only silly Pharisees think that way.

How about answering my question in post 91.

 

[Utah]

When you get rid of your sarcasm and ask a question because you genuinely want an answer, I may respond.

Pot, meet Kettle.

 

[Utah]

God bless you all

The gift of tongues is from God - our new heavenly language.
Some want and receive it, some dont.

And it is awesome if you do, coz then you can pray in the Spirit, and know exactly what that piece of Scripture means "praying in the Spirit."

We always pray in the Spirit, as we are moved...at the supermarket or sitting on the toilet. It makes no difference to God. He just loves that we are praying in the Spirit. I sing in the Spirit too as I am overcome with the joy of the Lord. Awesome.

Heavenly Father, I ask in Jesus name, that You will lay your hand upon everyone who reads this.
That You will impart this gift into the hearts of all the scoffers and mockers here Father, so that they will truly understand its meaning...and lose all fear of this awesome gift, and that Your glory be revealed awhen they know it came from You.
Amen
Thankyou Father, Thankyou

Thank you for your prayers and essence of well being for all. Maybe I'll receive the gift, maybe I won't. Don't much matter to me because my salvation is sealed in the Blood of Jesus, regardless.

 

[Utah]

Seems too many folks here on CC are more interested in bickering than building.

Guilty as charged.

I'd much rather always build up, but sometimes knocking Pharisees off their perches is required work.

 

[Utah]

My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness.

You get a rep for that one, Sister!

 

[WoundedWarrior]

Who's angry that you have the gift of tongues? Not me. I'm merely setting the record straight that people don't need the gift of tongues to be saved. Only silly Pharisees think that way.

How about answering my question in post 91.

What led you to believe that she is angry? I don't gather that from her post which you referenced:

So what are you going to do with this verse?
1 Cor 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

It is not our ignorance of the Word, but yours.

And to go one step further by calling a gift of the Spirit foolish jibberish is very unwise, and likely to lead you into blasphemy.

Not to mention calling the children of God fools:

Matt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

And that goes for you phil, utah, gr8grace and anyone else who agrees with it.

I don't see it..

 

[WoundedWarrior]

Pot, meet Kettle.

When was Convallaria sarcastic? I don't see it.