Rapture= false teaching

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greatkraw

Guest
the first resurrection is that of Christ
it starts in 33 ad and stretches to the end of the tribulation and includes his body the church
 
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miktre

Guest
the first resurrection is that of Christ
it starts in 33 ad and stretches to the end of the tribulation and includes his body the church
There you go perverting the word of God to make it suit your personal needs again. It's very clear this is talking about the resurrection of the Church.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Wicked not resurrected till 1000 years is over; Righteous resurrected.

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
You think you and the everyone that died in Christ were resurrected the same day as Christ???
Hog wash.
 
G

greatkraw

Guest
There you go perverting the word of God to make it suit your personal needs again. It's very clear this is talking about the resurrection of the Church.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Wicked not resurrected till 1000 years is over; Righteous resurrected.

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
You think you and the everyone that died in Christ were resurrected the same day as Christ???
Hog wash.
see this is where you give yourself away Miktre

you are clearly about winning an argument rather than finding the truth

I never known you to NOT misrepresent my position
 
M

miktre

Guest
see this is where you give yourself away Miktre

you are clearly about winning an argument rather than finding the truth

I never known you to NOT misrepresent my position
Well I've never seen you not to misrepresent your own position. Clearly this is talking about resurrection of those who were beheaded and those that didn't take the mark. You can easily tell that from it saying the rest were not resurrected until the thousand years. Out of nowhere all of a sudden you want it to mean it's talking about the resurrection of Christ when that was never the subject. The rapture doctors are constantly perverting the word to suit their doctrine, I find it disgusting.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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There you go perverting the word of God to make it suit your personal needs again. It's very clear this is talking about the resurrection of the Church.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Wicked not resurrected till 1000 years is over; Righteous resurrected.

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
You think you and the everyone that died in Christ were resurrected the same day as Christ???
Hog wash.
Actually, that is the truth, that in His resurrection we are raised up. It just ain't happened yet in our time. But God is not in time, and just as Christ was crucified before the foundations of the world were laid, but did not happen here until that day, so we have been raised up in Him, on that day. For Christ will descent from the heavens, with a shout and we will be changed to be like Him, and we will be caught up into the air to be with Him for ever. This is the bride, who we are. Those who are part of the first resurrection which is at the beginning of the thousand years of Christ's rule, they are the righteous, but not the bride. Is there any way to prove this to you? Absolutely not, and so I will not try.

Blessing in Christ,
 
M

miktre

Guest
Actually, that is the truth, that in His resurrection we are raised up. It just ain't happened yet in our time. But God is not in time, and just as Christ was crucified before the foundations of the world were laid, but did not happen here until that day, so we have been raised up in Him, on that day. For Christ will descent from the heavens, with a shout and we will be changed to be like Him, and we will be caught up into the air to be with Him for ever. This is the bride, who we are. Those who are part of the first resurrection which is at the beginning of the thousand years of Christ's rule, they are the righteous, but not the bride. Is there any way to prove this to you? Absolutely not, and so I will not try.

Blessing in Christ,
Oh I agree, if Christ is not resurrected then none of us will be, but He has been and so shall we. However that is not the subject of the verses, its beyond obvious. You would have to divide the body of Christ to think some are raptured and some are not.
 
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greatkraw

Guest
Revelation makes it clear there are only 2 resurrections
# 2 is the ungodly at the end of the millenium
# 1 include believers of all ages including those who were raised when Jesus was on easter sunday - these are the first fruits
# 1 includes the rapture - this is the harvest
# 1 includes the resurretion of the tribulation saints - this is the gleanings

I have explained this all before in this thread; Miktre has us going round and round
 
M

miktre

Guest
Revelation makes it clear there are only 2 resurrections
# 2 is the ungodly at the end of the millenium
# 1 include believers of all ages including those who were raised when Jesus was on easter sunday - these are the first fruits
# 1 includes the rapture - this is the harvest
# 1 includes the resurretion of the tribulation saints - this is the gleanings

I have explained this all before in this thread; Miktre has us going round and round
Still just rambling and providing no scripture, are you?

Now your are separating the rapture from the resurrection as two different times??? Wow the crazier you sound with each post. Surely you can't be serious.


1 Thessalonians 4

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:(RESURRECTION!)
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

You think the twinkle of an eye is seven years long???

# 1 includes the rapture - this is the harvest
# 1 includes the resurretion of the tribulation saints - this is the gleanings
 
G

greatkraw

Guest
so you implicitly concede that the first resurrection occurs over a long period of time
 
M

miktre

Guest
so you implicitly concede that the first resurrection occurs over a long period of time
No way buddy, twinkle of an eye means every one at once not an event that starts then ends seven years later.
 
G

greatkraw

Guest
So what do you do with this verse?


Math 27 :52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who slept arose,

53and came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the Holy City and appeared unto many.
 
M

miktre

Guest
So what do you do with this verse?


Math 27 :52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who slept arose,

53and came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the Holy City and appeared unto many.
This was done as a testimony. Those saints were present with the Lord and then appeared to us but they didn't continue to live forever with those beheaded and those that didn't take the mark or any of the church. Thus this can't be the first resurrection.
 
G

greatkraw

Guest
This was done as a testimony. Those saints were present with the Lord and then appeared to us but they didn't continue to live forever with those beheaded and those that didn't take the mark or any of the church. Thus this can't be the first resurrection.
so whaddaya saying?

that they went back in the ground??
 
Nov 12, 2009
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The Coming of the Lord

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

13-14And regarding the question, friends, that has come up about what happens to those already dead and buried, we don't want you in the dark any longer. First off, you must not carry on over them like people who have nothing to look forward to, as if the grave were the last word. Since Jesus died and broke loose from the grave, God will most certainly bring back to life those who died in Jesus.
15-18And then this: We can tell you with complete confidence—we have the Master's word on it—that when the Master comes again to get us, those of us who are still alive will not get a jump on the dead and leave them behind. In actual fact, they'll be ahead of us. The Master himself will give the command. Archangel thunder! God's trumpet blast! He'll come down from heaven and the dead in Christ will rise—they'll go first. Then the rest of us who are still alive at the time will be caught up with them into the clouds to meet the Master. Oh, we'll be walking on air! And then there will be one huge family reunion with the Master. So reassure one another with these words.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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Oh I agree, if Christ is not resurrected then none of us will be, but He has been and so shall we. However that is not the subject of the verses, its beyond obvious. You would have to divide the body of Christ to think some are raptured and some are not.
I am not sure that the rapture and the resurrection are the same thing. And certainly not at the same time. The resurrection is at the end of the age, at the beginning of the thousand year reign. The rapture, or catching away, is somewhat earlier. Those who have gone to sleep in Christ will not precede us, as we will join Him in the air when He calls us forth. When Christ returns to take up His earthly rule, He leads the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine lined, white and clean, following Him on white horses. Now this may be angels and it may be the bride. But what I find really interesting is that when John is shown the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven, it is called the bride, not the people who will enter and live there, but the city itself is called the bride. As we are the living temple of the Lord, this makes me wonder just what place we have in eternity. The bride, the elect, she is different from the righteous of the nations. The bride is not appointed to wrath. The last half of the 7 year tribulation is most definitely the wrath of God.

So I am not saying one way or the other, only pointing out some interesting things.
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
At the present time, there are Christian brothers and sisters who are with Christ, but that separation does not make us two bodies, because the body of Christ is a spiritual entity.
After seventy-seven pages and over 1500 posts of discussing the timing of the resurrection and various other escatological and non-escatatogical issues, I would like to return to the core of the matter. The most important issue of escatology is this: The Return of Christ.
Mara natha.
 
Nov 12, 2009
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At the present time, there are Christian brothers and sisters who are with Christ, but that separation does not make us two bodies, because the body of Christ is a spiritual entity.
After seventy-seven pages and over 1500 posts of discussing the timing of the resurrection and various other escatological and non-escatatogical issues, I would like to return to the core of the matter. The most important issue of escatology is this: The Return of Christ.
Mara natha.
That sounds like an excellent idea :)