For Sabbath keepers, How does obedience to the Sabbath affect your Salvation?

[KohenMatt]

Back and forth, back and forth.... this topic keeps coming up for me too. I happen to participate in corporate worship on sunday... cuz I do. I also have a desire to commune very personally... every Saturday. There are 87 pages of comments in this thread. Anyone who would like to outline what their Sabbath practice looks like in my " feast of tabernacle" thread is invited and URGED to do that!!! it is a discussion/share thread not an argue doctrine thread.

Addendum.....

I will say though, I disagree with those who might say Sunday has replaced Saturday as the Sabbath, or that every day we worship God replaces Saturday as the Sabbath.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Addendum.....

I will say though, I disagree with those who might say Sunday has replaced Saturday as the Sabbath, or that every day we worship God replaces Saturday as the Sabbath.

Yes thank you for clarifying... I understand and agree...don't really know what to do about concerning MYSELF... but thank you!

 

[oldthennew]

feeling joy right now, and that special love for like-minded brethren.....

honoring our Saviour is the most important thing in our lives, may we all do so with
humbleness and thankfulness for His most precious gift...

 

[BarlyGurl]

feeling joy right now, and that special love for like-minded brethren.....

honoring our Saviour is the most important thing in our lives, may we all do so with
humbleness and thankfulness for His most precious gift...

Aww... that made me cry.

 

[KohenMatt]

Thank Kohen, I try to NOT be "working" Saturday also but am less concerned about "working" sunday... just my inclination. However, I do have this pretty firm attitude about NOT engaging in commerce on sunday... and I think perhaps I should reconsider... I don't generally engage commerce on Saturday anyway... because I am at home focused toward the Lord... and I might bake or whatever to serve others.

...Suffice it to say... my life is very lacking in fellowship with like minded believers.

Before I was able to have the Sabbath off from work, I treated work that day as a special opportunity to minister to God and others. The Levitical priests offered double the sacrifices on the Sabbath, so I viewed my "work" on the Sabbath as an opportunity to do double the ministry.

And I understand about the lack of fellowship. I would encourage you though, to find a fellowship you can worship with, even if they're not completely of like mind. There is a movement today that says if you can't be in complete agreement with a church, you're better off worshiping alone. I believe God is more concerned that we don't forsake meeting together than He is that we all be in complete unity.

 

[just-me]

The first Sabbath instruction began on the 15th day of the 2nd month (Lyar) according to the "new Moon" which begins a new month. After 7 days, the first Sabbath was the 22nd of the 2nd month (Exodus 16) in relation to food from heaven. A time period is known as a "chag" (if I remember right) being called a day as that particular time period. This year, the Sabbath, according to the beginning of the Biblical year, would have fallen on a Sunday (May 9th) according to the Gregorian calendar. Next year it will be on a different day.

Bottom line is that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath, and He calls the shots as to when, where, and how. Do we observe Sabbath according to Julius Caesar and Pope Gregory, or do we observe the Sabbath according to God's ordinances? Is it a day, or is it in the heart of those who believe in Christ?

I asked it before, and I will ask it again. "Why do we discuss which say of the week the Sabbath is according to calendars instituted by a dictator and a Pope that were never Biblical in the first place?"

I'll let it rest at this point even though I have more in my mind about all this. I will only add this. Consider the women that prepared spices for Jesus body, knowing that the Feast of Unleavened bread was in effect during Jesus' resurrection. The rhetorical question is; "What, or when, was the first day of the week when they came to the tomb after buying the spices after Passover? Was it after the Feast of Unleavened bread, or was it according to the Julian calendar that was "according to the commandment?" (Luke 23:56)

Food for thought. I cannot say one way or the other.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Doesn't The Sabbath start at sundown Friday an end at sundown Saturday?

 

[KohenMatt]

Doesn't The Sabbath start at sundown Friday an end at sundown Saturday?

According to a Hebrew-mindset, yes.

 

[prove-all]

The seventh day was set apart and made holy and sanctified at creation...
Gen 2:2-3, Exo 20:10-11

God (Jesus Christ) revealed the seventh day to Israel for forty YEARS.
Every meal they were reminded which day the Sabbath was.

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.


"By calculating the eclipses, it can be proven that no time has been lost and the
creation days were seven, divided into 24 hours each."
—Dr. Hinkley, The Watchman, July 1926 [Hinkley was a well-known astronomer].


"The human race never lost the septenary [seven day] sequence of week days
and that the Sabbath of these latter times comes down to us from Adam, though the ages,
without a single lapse."—Dr. Totten, professor of astronomy at Yale University.


"Seven has been the ancient and honored number among the nations of the earth.
They have measured their time by weeks from the beginning.
The origin of this was the Sabbath of God, as Moses has given the reasons
for it in his writings."—Dr. Lyman Coleman.


"There has been no change in our calendar in past centuries that has affected in
any way the cycle of the week."—James Robertson, Director American Ephemeris,
Navy Department, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C., March 12, 1932.


"It can be said with assurance that not a day has been lost since Creation, and all
the calendar changes notwithstanding, there has been no break in the weekly cycle."
—Dr. Frank Jeffries, Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and Research Director
of the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.


There is no question about which day the seventh day of the week is.,
And is recorded in the oricals of God, given to us.

The weekly cycle, the break between the shift from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar?
There was a well known break of 10 days.

In 1582, please notice that Thursday the 4th was followed by Friday the 15th.

The weekly cycle was not interrupted.

Now take a look at 1752, Wednesday the 2nd was followed by Thursday the 14th.
Again, the calendar had to be adjusted to correct it to the seasons

but the weekly cycle remained unchanged.

October 1582
1

2

3

4

15

16

September 1752
1

2

14

15

16

 

[beingJustifiedFreely]

Don't worry. As you spend some time here, there are very few who observe the Law for salvation's sake. Most of us observe the Law as a response to God's gracious gift.

Buti am worried. Folks here just let them and still fellowship with them? We are to be of one mind, of one accord.

 

[prove-all]

Doesn't The Sabbath start at sundown Friday an end at sundown Saturday?

Yes, according to God and the bible

 

[sparkman]

Buti am worried. Folks here just let them and still fellowship with them? We are to be of one mind, of one accord.

At least two people here are Armstrongites, following the teachings of Herbert Armstrong. Armstrong denied the salvation of non-Sabbathkeepers. Not only that, but he denied the salvation of everyone else outside of his cult. I used to be one of them, and was fully committed to his teachings.

Seventh Day Adventists acknowledge that there are individuals who will be saved in other churches and even amongst Muslims and groups of all types, but they think that these individuals will keep the Sabbath and become Seventh Day Adventist during the end times, or they will be lost. They believe that professing Christians who don't accept the Sabbath will be under the Mark of the Beast then.

About the only thing here that gets someone banned is if they explicitly state that others aren't Christian or are trying to teach some blatant heresy on a repetitive basis. Occasionally some of the Sabbathkeepers cross that line and admit that they don't consider other Christians to be saved due to their non-observance of the Sabbath. I think other Sabbathkeepers believe this but they won't come out and say it.

For instance, they will say that the rest of Christians are following a counterfeit Christianity or counterfeit gospel. This necessarily implies that they are denying the Christianity of non-Sabbathkeepers but they don't come right out and say it because they know they will get banned.

By the way you will see many threads where I have addressed the common assertions by Sabbathkeepers and refuted them. As an ex Sabbath/festival observer I have had to work through those issues myself.

 

[sparkman]

The fact that you are asking that same question again suggest to me that either 1, your not actually reading what I said or 2, you are not understanding what I said. either way there is no point going forward. I don't wan't to repeat myself over and over again.

I came from the other side, I never used to care about the Sabbath and it was through much prayer and study that God opened my eyes to the truth concerning it. So no its not some holding on to presuppositions which is a childish argument at best being that anyone can say that to anyone who does not agree with their point.

I find your reasoning flawed and find you unwilling to address my points for some reason. Possible because you do not understand them I don't know. anyway lets leave it there. no point arguing over it when we clearly don't seem to be moving forward.

May God bless you in your walk with Him and my all our eyes yes even mine be opened to know more.

To be honest, I don't understand your reasoning. It seems like you are trying to string together unrelated thoughts.

Like I said, Seventh Day Adventists are not as bad as Armstrongites as at least you don't deny the salvation of other Christians. Nor do you claim that you are gods in embryonic form like they do, to be born into the Godhead. I would place you guys in the arena of being Christian but doctrinally confused. Armstrongites are basically a full blown cult.

 

[gotime]

To be honest, I don't understand your reasoning. It seems like you are trying to string together unrelated thoughts.

Like I said, Seventh Day Adventists are not as bad as Armstrongites as at least you don't deny the salvation of other Christians. Nor do you claim that you are gods in embryonic form like they do, to be born into the Godhead. I would place you guys in the arena of being Christian but doctrinally confused. Armstrongites are basically a full blown cult.

That must be why you are asking that same question then. I don't know exactly how to move forward because I don't know exactly what it is that you are not getting about what I said.

 

[sparkman]

That must be why you are asking that same question then. I don't know exactly how to move forward because I don't know exactly what it is that you are not getting about what I said.

That's ok. I am not concerned with it. We both agree that the items mentioned in Colossians 2:16-17 are inapplicable to New Covenant Christians..you think that the weekly Sabbath isn't included in those items and I think it is. The reason is that sabbaton is only used in conjunction with the weekly Sabbath in the New Testament. In addition, the Sabbath points to Christ as our spiritual rest.

To be honest, if I thought the Sabbath applied, I would keep it. I did that for 10 years, plus all the festivals, clean and unclean meat laws, and triple tithing. Keeping just the weekly Sabbath would be nothing in the manner that you guys keep it..by the way I think that the way it was defined in the Old Testament was much different...in addition even Ellen G. White defined Sabbathkeeping a lot more radically than current day SDAs observe it.

I am totally confident that it does not apply to New Covenant believers though so I am not worried about the issue.

But if I thought it applied, where would I fellowship? I certainly wouldn't go to an Armstrongite or Seventh Day Adventist church. Both of them have doctrinal errors of an unacceptable nature to me. For instance, with the SDAs the prophet status of Ellen G. White would be a big red flag with me, as well as their anthropomorphic view of God, their investigative judgment which denies that sins of the believer are forgiven, and their rejection of Reformed theology which I embrace for the most part. With Armstrongites, they claim they will be part of the Godhead in the resurrection which is blasphemous, and they deny the salvation of non-Sabbathkeepers (actually they deny the salvation of all others outside of their organization including SDAs). As well, they deny justification by faith alone. So, I am not even in close alignment with either of those organizations. With my Evangelical Free congregation, I am in total alignment except on the eternal torment part..I still believe in annihilationism basically although I see some verses indicating otherwise.

I liked attending services at a Christian and Missionary Alliance church that had Saturday afternoon services. It fit well into my schedule as I didn't have to get up early. But I didn't do it because of thinking I needed to keep the Sabbath. I did it because it fit well into my schedule and I enjoyed hanging out with Christians on Saturday afternoon.

 

[sparkman]

In addition, the biggest sin of the Armstrongites is denying the salvation of other believers, and I think some Seventh Day Adventists do the same thing although it's not the official position of their church. There's still a sizeable group which does so.

I think it was my biggest sin as an Armstrongite..discounting the Christianity of others who had placed their faith in Jesus Christ but weren't keeping elements of the Old Covenant such as the Sabbath, festivals and clean/unclean meat laws.

That's ok. I am not concerned with it. We both agree that the items mentioned in Colossians 2:16-17 are inapplicable to New Covenant Christians..you think that the weekly Sabbath isn't included in those items and I think it is. The reason is that sabbaton is only used in conjunction with the weekly Sabbath in the New Testament. In addition, the Sabbath points to Christ as our spiritual rest.

To be honest, if I thought the Sabbath applied, I would keep it. I did that for 10 years, plus all the festivals, clean and unclean meat laws, and triple tithing. Keeping just the weekly Sabbath would be nothing in the manner that you guys keep it..by the way I think that the way it was defined in the Old Testament was much different...in addition even Ellen G. White defined Sabbathkeeping a lot more radically than current day SDAs observe it.

I am totally confident that it does not apply to New Covenant believers though so I am not worried about the issue.

But if I thought it applied, where would I fellowship? I certainly wouldn't go to an Armstrongite or Seventh Day Adventist church. Both of them have doctrinal errors of an unacceptable nature to me. For instance, with the SDAs the prophet status of Ellen G. White would be a big red flag with me, as well as their anthropomorphic view of God, their investigative judgment which denies that sins of the believer are forgiven, and their rejection of Reformed theology which I embrace for the most part. With Armstrongites, they claim they will be part of the Godhead in the resurrection which is blasphemous, and they deny the salvation of non-Sabbathkeepers (actually they deny the salvation of all others outside of their organization including SDAs). As well, they deny justification by faith alone. So, I am not even in close alignment with either of those organizations. With my Evangelical Free congregation, I am in total alignment except on the eternal torment part..I still believe in annihilationism basically although I see some verses indicating otherwise.

I liked attending services at a Christian and Missionary Alliance church that had Saturday afternoon services. It fit well into my schedule as I didn't have to get up early. But I didn't do it because of thinking I needed to keep the Sabbath. I did it because it fit well into my schedule and I enjoyed hanging out with Christians on Saturday afternoon.

 

[gotime]

In addition, the biggest sin of the Armstrongites is denying the salvation of other believers, and I think some Seventh Day Adventists do the same thing although it's not the official position of their church. There's still a sizeable group which does so.

I think it was my biggest sin as an Armstrongite..discounting the Christianity of others who had placed their faith in Jesus Christ but weren't keeping elements of the Old Covenant such as the Sabbath, festivals and clean/unclean meat laws.

Fair enough, What I find is that many who think they know what we believe don't really, sure they have an idea and have red stuff. but the amount of times people do studies with us and say something like this. "wow I though you guys were salvation by works" or I studied into this but its much clearer now that you are Christian" and my fav is this one, "you guys use the bible for everything."

I know I proved nothing by saying that and that was not my intention, my point is simple, we are often missunderstood by those who have studied our faith without actually talking and studying with us.

Blessings mate. much love and respect.

 

[gotime]

For me the secret for understanding scripture and the Gospel begins in the Sanctuary. The Sanctuary is all about Jesus. both things He has done and things he is doing and things He will do. In fact the cross is best understood by those who know the sanctuary teaching.

 

[sparkman]

Fair enough, What I find is that many who think they know what we believe don't really, sure they have an idea and have red stuff. but the amount of times people do studies with us and say something like this. "wow I though you guys were salvation by works" or I studied into this but its much clearer now that you are Christian" and my fav is this one, "you guys use the bible for everything."

I know I proved nothing by saying that and that was not my intention, my point is simple, we are often missunderstood by those who have studied our faith without actually talking and studying with us.

Blessings mate. much love and respect.

I think you know that I seek to understand. We discussed SDA theology a while back and you recommended the book which outlines your 28 core doctrines. I have read about 60 percent of it and have discussed points of SDA theology with other SDA people.

I did not read the book because I lack confidence in my own positions but so I could discuss them relatively intelligently with SDAs.

I don't totally understand your views on the Sanctuary or all the prophetic stuff as it simply would take too much time to study those issues in depth. However I have a general idea. Some points are similar to Armstrongism, for example, the idea that the Azazel goat of Leviticus 16 represents Satan..a point I strongly disagree with as Christ was our sin bearer..the two goats represented two different aspects of the atonement, and Satan will never be our sin bearer.

Anyways I think you will remember recommending that book to me..I have just been tied up on other areas of study that are more central to my immediate need than understanding SDA theology..but I've made an effort.

 

[gotime]

I think you know that I seek to understand. We discussed SDA theology a while back and you recommended the book which outlines your 28 core doctrines. I have read about 60 percent of it and have discussed points of SDA theology with other SDA people.

I did not read the book because I lack confidence in my own positions but so I could discuss them relatively intelligently with SDAs.

I don't totally understand your views on the Sanctuary or all the prophetic stuff as it simply would take too much time to study those issues in depth. However I have a general idea. Some points are similar to Armstrongism, for example, the idea that the Azazel goat of Leviticus 16 represents Satan..a point I strongly disagree with as Christ was our sin bearer..the two goats represented two different aspects of the atonement, and Satan will never be our sin bearer.

Anyways I think you will remember recommending that book to me..I have just been tied up on other areas of study that are more central to my immediate need than understanding SDA theology..but I've made an effort.

The scape goat does not pay for sins, this is evident by the fact that it does not die when the sin is applied. The other Goat most clearly is the one who dies for the Sin and the fact that one not two are the lords goat leaves us with the logical conclusion that the scape goat is not a representation of Jesus.

It helps to go through the whole symbol of the day of Atonement. and the rest to get a proper context of the even. It actually fits with Revelation when Satan is bound. but hey that's another topic.