For Sabbath keepers, How does obedience to the Sabbath affect your Salvation?

[sparkman]

In answer to your point 1.

you said ". If you assert that Saturday Sabbath observance is required for New Covenant Christians, then
to be consistent you must make the same assertion for annual festivals such as the Feast of Tabernacles, animal sacrifices,"

That is not true, not sure how you think one equals the other. the new testament and the Old both make it clear that sacrifices would not continue forever. But Concerning the 7th day Sabbath there is no such stipulation. Do you actually know what prophecy I am referring to? Because the prophecy is in regards to the Gentiles coming in which Paul in the New testament spends much time on. Saying one equals the other is not well founded logic. I am not trying to say anything about you personally please don't take it that way. So no you are in error to suggest that consistency would dictate to allow sacrifices also. That is totally inconsistent with what Scripture teaches.

point 2,

Interesting point as I have said He does not simply mention them twice. all of those things mentioned are found in connection with feasts. new moons food and drink and Sabbaths are all part of feast but they are not the feasts themselves. in fact you mentioned numbers 28:24 in another post. So let me correct you on an assumption. I never said they were not offerings you have assumed that. Now the very verse you have sited actually makes my point. if you read the context you will find that they are indeed food and drink offerings that are connected to the feast of Passover Just as I have been saying all along. They themselves are not the feast but they are part of the feast. hope that clears things up a little. Oh and yes what I have said in no way proves that the festivals still need to be kept. Scripture teaches the very opposite that they were met in Christ.

Point 3,

This is not hard I have already answered this one in the original post. Context tells you which is being referred to. the context in Colossians most clearly as demonstrated refers to Sabbaths that are in conjunction with the feasts. Its not a matter of randomly picking and choosing its a matter of sound biblical context. The only reason you take issue with it is because of your view of the 7th day Sabbath. but the context clearly shows that the 7th day Sabbath is not being referred to in Colossians on many levels. its not a shadow pointing forward though you try to make it one. But the Sabbaths which were in connection with the festivals did indeed point to rest in Christ. They are the Sabbaths that teach what you misapply to the 7th day Sabbath. This is the problem you connect the rest in Christ to the commandment that clearly says that it points back to creation. instead of realizing that it is the feast Sabbaths that were designed to do this. They are the once that are connected to the festivals which point forward to Jesus giving us rest by his sacrifice.

It seems like simple logic and context to me not to mention biblical. If there are two different types of Sabbaths mentioned. one points back to creation and one points to rest through a sacrifice then Paul speaks of Sabbaths that are a shadow of things to come in connection with Jesus paying the price for our sins. Its a no brainier which one is being referred to.

Feast Sabbaths=Rest in the sacrifice of Jesus, shadow of things to come
commandment Sabbath=Jesus is our creator, memorial of a past reality.

as far as your points on Hebrews 4 that is a massive study on its own and so is revelation 17. not enough time to go into that right now. blessings.

No, the real issue is indoctrination, and you are going to hold your presuppositions regardless of what reasoning I employ. I was a Sabbathkeeper for over a decade and I know the mentality because I had it myself.

You are simply rejecting truth.

Why do you claim that the word for Sabbath is talking about annual Sabbaths when you would agree that the other 59 times it's used in the New Testament, it is referring to the weekly Sabbath? In addition, why did you ignore my point regarding the consistent use of the triplets in either ascending or descending order in other Scriptural references? The formation that Paul used in these verses is consistent with that....weekly, monthly, annual or annual, monthly, weekly.

In addition, you might ask yourself the question as to why Sabbath-breaking is never mentioned in the epistles to the Gentiles if it is a binding requirement under the New Covenant. He addressed many other sins, but Sabbath-breaking was never mentioned, nor was there any instruction to Gentiles on how to keep the Sabbath.

Also, from the book of Acts forward, there are 11 mentions of the Sabbath. Colossians 2:16-17, Hebrews 4, and nine references in the book of Acts are the only references. Eight of the nine references relate to Paul preaching the gospel to Jews and Gentiles who were at the synagogues and were not Christians...they were potential converts. The ninth reference is alongside the river and was a group of Jewish women gathered for prayer.

There is a conspicuous absence of discussion regarding the Sabbath, which is significant considering that the Seventh Day Adventists and Armstrongites make it their FOCUS. It is not a peripheral issue with them; it is their FOCUS.

This alone should tell you there is something wrong with your church's theology, including the fact that it's largely based on a woman who had very low moral standards and used the writings of others claiming they were direct revelations from God to her. The books of these authors were found in her estate library, by the way, so there is no mistake that she used them for her materials.

I ask myself the same thing about Herbert Armstrong, who was involved in incest with his daughter. Good fruit does not come from such an obviously bad tree.

 

[oldthennew]

brother Sparkman,

I can assure you that there is no conspiracy regarding any of us not speaking-up concerning the Shabbat.

many of us are and have been settled on this aspect/topic/personal conviction of our lives for many years
and have much peace and comfort about this subject.

it is very grievous to some of us to see how un-settled you are in your life concerning your feelings about
what you have done/adhered to/participated in, in your past.....and we can see the that peace
you are so desperately seeking is alluding you.
a great proof of this is your constant, obsessive behavior concerning people who are either dead or a very
distant part of your present life.....in our growth in/for Christ, our pasts are only a shadow of our present/future,
and should always be appreciated, no matter the cost, as we should see that our Father has in store for us many
brand-new things to do, and to see, and to glorify Him in.....

oh how we desire to see your personal gifts brought up to date and to hear how what you have learned and
discerned and gleaned from your past has made you the 'new-person' whom Jesus has so thoughtfully
and lovingly allowed to be a part of today, with all of its trimmings.....and exciting events to come..
what blessings you and all of us are the inheritors of.....

on a personal note, my husband has had some of the most atrocious deeds done to him in CHURCH, and he
would or has no desire to go back there, because, THAT HAS ALL BEEN FORGIVEN, else he is trying to fulfill
the scripture,

PHIL.3:13.
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things -
which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, ....................

 

[KohenMatt]

In addition, you might ask yourself the question as to why Sabbath-breaking is never mentioned in the epistles to the Gentiles if it is a binding requirement under the New Covenant. He addressed many other sins, but Sabbath-breaking was never mentioned, nor was there any instruction to Gentiles on how to keep the Sabbath.

Do you need your parents or others to keep telling you to wipe after you go to the bathroom? Or is it understood that as you grow into a mature adult that you will continue doing those things you learned? Any leader, spiritual or secular, will tell you that you continue following an instruction until you are told otherwise.


2 Timothy 3:14-15
"But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it,15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus."

 

[mpaper345]

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ(Colossians 2:14-17).

These physical ordinances listed were contrary to us,which means they have no spiritual impact in a relationship with God,so Jesus took them out of the way nailing them to His cross,so therefore let no man judge you in these physical ordinances,which means do not keep them because people say you have to keep them,which sabbath days are listed.

I do not believe that we have to keep the physical sabbath day of rest anymore in the New Testament,but since the 10 commandments are laws of love towards God and people,it would seem like we would have to keep the sabbath,but it would be a spiritual sabbath,a spiritual rest by the Holy Spirit.


[SUP]10 [/SUP]For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear(Isaiah 28:10-12).

Here it appears as if God is saying that in the future,which would be the New Testament,that it would be a spiritual rest.

Yet they would not hear.

 

[gotime]

No, the real issue is indoctrination, and you are going to hold your presuppositions regardless of what reasoning I employ. I was a Sabbathkeeper for over a decade and I know the mentality because I had it myself.

You are simply rejecting truth.

Why do you claim that the word for Sabbath is talking about annual Sabbaths when you would agree that the other 59 times it's used in the New Testament, it is referring to the weekly Sabbath? In addition, why did you ignore my point regarding the consistent use of the triplets in either ascending or descending order in other Scriptural references? The formation that Paul used in these verses is consistent with that....weekly, monthly, annual or annual, monthly, weekly.

In addition, you might ask yourself the question as to why Sabbath-breaking is never mentioned in the epistles to the Gentiles if it is a binding requirement under the New Covenant. He addressed many other sins, but Sabbath-breaking was never mentioned, nor was there any instruction to Gentiles on how to keep the Sabbath.

Also, from the book of Acts forward, there are 11 mentions of the Sabbath. Colossians 2:16-17, Hebrews 4, and nine references in the book of Acts are the only references. Eight of the nine references relate to Paul preaching the gospel to Jews and Gentiles who were at the synagogues and were not Christians...they were potential converts. The ninth reference is alongside the river and was a group of Jewish women gathered for prayer.

There is a conspicuous absence of discussion regarding the Sabbath, which is significant considering that the Seventh Day Adventists and Armstrongites make it their FOCUS. It is not a peripheral issue with them; it is their FOCUS.

This alone should tell you there is something wrong with your church's theology, including the fact that it's largely based on a woman who had very low moral standards and used the writings of others claiming they were direct revelations from God to her. The books of these authors were found in her estate library, by the way, so there is no mistake that she used them for her materials.

I ask myself the same thing about Herbert Armstrong, who was involved in incest with his daughter. Good fruit does not come from such an obviously bad tree.

The fact that you are asking that same question again suggest to me that either 1, your not actually reading what I said or 2, you are not understanding what I said. either way there is no point going forward. I don't wan't to repeat myself over and over again.

I came from the other side, I never used to care about the Sabbath and it was through much prayer and study that God opened my eyes to the truth concerning it. So no its not some holding on to presuppositions which is a childish argument at best being that anyone can say that to anyone who does not agree with their point.

I find your reasoning flawed and find you unwilling to address my points for some reason. Possible because you do not understand them I don't know. anyway lets leave it there. no point arguing over it when we clearly don't seem to be moving forward.

May God bless you in your walk with Him and my all our eyes yes even mine be opened to know more.

 

[gotime]

One more thing, an argument on silence is no argument at all. it is full of base assumptions.

 

[gotime]

In regards to the OP.

How does not killing affect your salvation?

Answer is simple, not killing does not save anyone but choosing to kill despite the command will cost you your life. apply same to all commands of God.

 

[Karraster]

brother Matt I didn't vote, can't say I have all the answers..except to say when He speaks to your heart it's good to listen. Like gotime, I didn't used to care about the Sabbath. Then one day, many years after becoming a christian my heart changed. It was all His doing. I haven't been the same since, and it was a change that those close to me noticed. If Sabbath was made for man, then isn't it a beautiful gift? It's from Father to us. I love Sabbath, I long for it every week.

I've heard on cc recently that we can't be sure if what we think is Sabbath is really the Sabbath. There was mention of Lunar Sabbath reckoning..well, that's not Biblical. Sabbath is determined by counting and not moon phases. Now we know Messiah knew what day Sabbath was, and the Julian calendar was already in force at that time. Since then there have been adjustments, but still it did not affect the order of the days only the dates. It didn't jump from tuesday to friday! Frankly, is there anything more attacked and hated by the world than Sabbath?

Also, it's very common to hear that the 4th commandment is not mentioned in the New Testament. Seriously? Cos I see it mentioned.

Luke 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Now why would Messiah instruct us about praying and the Sabbath day if we wouldn't be able to know when it was? I could go on, but that's enough. Only He can open eyes and ears.

Peace and shalom. One day we will all be worshiping our Creator on His Sabbath. Aman.

 

[beingJustifiedFreely]

If you keep the whole law and offend in one part you are guilty of all. You can keep the sabbaoth if you want, just dont believe to keep the sabbaoth for your justification. Otherwise you will be like galatians anf fall from grace

 

[Grandpa]

In regards to the OP.

How does not killing affect your salvation?

Answer is simple, not killing does not save anyone but choosing to kill despite the command will cost you your life. apply same to all commands of God.

Matthew 5:21-22
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


Its not your behaviour that the command is pointing to. Its your heart and mind.

Same for all the commands. Its continuous. Not just for saturdays.



A really good question would be; How is obedience to Christ only on saturdays causing you to be saved? Oh what a revelation it must have been to read the law in your carnal understanding and start resting on saturdays...

What does the bible say about being justified by the law?

Is there a such thing as an OT Christian? Aside from David and Abraham, I mean today. Can a person follow the OT and Christ simultaneously?

You think you are obeying the 10 Commandments. But they are Spiritual. They are a description of the Perfect Holy Spirit.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

[JaumeJ]

When the Father brings us to Jesus Christ we receive the gifts of faith and grace. Because of grace we are seen as keeping the "whole law." Because of grace it is written upon our hearts. We may falter, but we are regarded as sin free by the Father.

Grace does not translate as trashing the wisdom of the law. With the law engraved on our inward parts and our hearts we understand what Jesus Christ teaches in fulfilling the law for us all. We understand mercy and forgiveness in the manner that is not seen with the veil of Moses. Learn from God, Jesus, and you will know and not argue about being under the law or living in grace. Perhaps it is a mystery to many but not to the children.

Listen to the teachings of Jesus.

 

[just-me]

When the Father brings us to Jesus Christ we receive the gifts of faith and grace. Because of grace we are seen as keeping the "whole law." Because of grace it is written upon our hearts. We may falter, but we are regarded as sin free by the Father.

Grace does not translate as trashing the wisdom of the law. With the law engraved on our inward parts and our hearts we understand what Jesus Christ teaches in fulfilling the law for us all. We understand mercy and forgiveness in the manner that is not seen with the veil of Moses. Learn from God, Jesus, and you will know and not argue about being under the law or living in grace. Perhaps it is a mystery to many but not to the children.

Listen to the teachings of Jesus.

Jesus confirmed this when He rebuked the Pharisees.

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Matthew 23:23)

 

[KohenMatt]

The fact that you are asking that same question again suggest to me that either 1, your not actually reading what I said or 2, you are not understanding what I said. either way there is no point going forward. I don't wan't to repeat myself over and over again.

I came from the other side, I never used to care about the Sabbath and it was through much prayer and study that God opened my eyes to the truth concerning it. So no its not some holding on to presuppositions which is a childish argument at best being that anyone can say that to anyone who does not agree with their point.

I find your reasoning flawed and find you unwilling to address my points for some reason. Possible because you do not understand them I don't know. anyway lets leave it there. no point arguing over it when we clearly don't seem to be moving forward.

May God bless you in your walk with Him and my all our eyes yes even mine be opened to know more.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to gotime again.

Love it. Thanks for your honestly and maturity!

 

[just-me]

brother Matt I didn't vote, can't say I have all the answers..except to say when He speaks to your heart it's good to listen. Like gotime, I didn't used to care about the Sabbath. Then one day, many years after becoming a christian my heart changed. It was all His doing. I haven't been the same since, and it was a change that those close to me noticed. If Sabbath was made for man, then isn't it a beautiful gift? It's from Father to us. I love Sabbath, I long for it every week.

I've heard on cc recently that we can't be sure if what we think is Sabbath is really the Sabbath. There was mention of Lunar Sabbath reckoning..well, that's not Biblical. Sabbath is determined by counting and not moon phases. Now we know Messiah knew what day Sabbath was, and the Julian calendar was already in force at that time. Since then there have been adjustments, but still it did not affect the order of the days only the dates. It didn't jump from tuesday to friday! Frankly, is there anything more attacked and hated by the world than Sabbath?

Also, it's very common to hear that the 4th commandment is not mentioned in the New Testament. Seriously? Cos I see it mentioned. The 4th commandment IS still in effect. There are STILL 10 commandments to follow. Nothing in God's original words has been made void.

Luke 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Now why would Messiah instruct us about praying and the Sabbath day if we wouldn't be able to know when it was? I could go on, but that's enough. Only He can open eyes and ears.

Peace and shalom. One day we will all be worshiping our Creator on His Sabbath. Aman.

Give me a scripture reference that says that Saturday is the Sabbath day. I have never noticed that. I'm not arguing. I just like all things to be confirmed with scripture concerning religious matters. There are still 10 commandments to follow. Nothing has been made void that God has ever spoken.

 

[KohenMatt]

brother Matt I didn't vote, can't say I have all the answers..except to say when He speaks to your heart it's good to listen. Like gotime, I didn't used to care about the Sabbath. Then one day, many years after becoming a christian my heart changed. It was all His doing. I haven't been the same since, and it was a change that those close to me noticed. If Sabbath was made for man, then isn't it a beautiful gift? It's from Father to us. I love Sabbath, I long for it every week.

I've heard on cc recently that we can't be sure if what we think is Sabbath is really the Sabbath. There was mention of Lunar Sabbath reckoning..well, that's not Biblical. Sabbath is determined by counting and not moon phases. Now we know Messiah knew what day Sabbath was, and the Julian calendar was already in force at that time. Since then there have been adjustments, but still it did not affect the order of the days only the dates. It didn't jump from tuesday to friday! Frankly, is there anything more attacked and hated by the world than Sabbath?

Also, it's very common to hear that the 4th commandment is not mentioned in the New Testament. Seriously? Cos I see it mentioned.

Luke 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Now why would Messiah instruct us about praying and the Sabbath day if we wouldn't be able to know when it was? I could go on, but that's enough. Only He can open eyes and ears.

Peace and shalom. One day we will all be worshiping our Creator on His Sabbath. Aman.

Amen.

Good to see you!

 

[KohenMatt]

If you keep the whole law and offend in one part you are guilty of all. You can keep the sabbaoth if you want, just dont believe to keep the sabbaoth for your justification. Otherwise you will be like galatians anf fall from grace

Don't worry. As you spend some time here, there are very few who observe the Law for salvation's sake. Most of us observe the Law as a response to God's gracious gift.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Back and forth, back and forth.... this topic keeps coming up for me too. I happen to participate in corporate worship on sunday... cuz I do. I also have a desire to commune very personally... every Saturday. There are 87 pages of comments in this thread. Anyone who would like to outline what their Sabbath practice looks like in my " feast of tabernacle" thread is invited and URGED to do that!!! it is a discussion/share thread not an argue doctrine thread.

 

[KohenMatt]

Back and forth, back and forth.... this topic keeps coming up for me too. I happen to participate in corporate worship on sunday... cuz I do. I also have a desire to commune very personally... every Saturday. There are 87 pages of comments in this thread. Anyone who would like to outline what their Sabbath practice looks like in my " feast of tabernacle" thread is invited and URGED to do that!!! it is a discussion/share thread not an argue doctrine thread.

Personally, I have no problem with people worshiping on Sunday. The more God's people can meet together inside and outside the church, the better!

Personally, my family starts the Sabbath Friday night with a special meal (unless life has been really that day), we pray over and bless my kids. We go to church Saturday morning and worship there most of the day (6-7 hours) with teachings, song and meals. We try to conclude the day by going to someone's house to fellowship if possible.

I'm fortunate to not have to work on the Sabbath, and we leave all housework to be done another time. We try to get the house in order on Friday as much as possible.

 

[tourist]

I'm fortunate to not have to work on the Sabbath, and we leave all housework to be done another time. We try to get the house in order on Friday as much as possible.

Same in our household as well.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Thank Kohen, I try to NOT be "working" Saturday also but am less concerned about "working" sunday... just my inclination. However, I do have this pretty firm attitude about NOT engaging in commerce on sunday... and I think perhaps I should reconsider... I don't generally engage commerce on Saturday anyway... because I am at home focused toward the Lord... and I might bake or whatever to serve others.

...Suffice it to say... my life is very lacking in fellowship with like minded believers.