Obsession with Confession (1 John 1:9, sin confession)

[BenFTW]

That however is not what it is saying that John is only including himself to lighten the blow to unbelievers, as that would be interjecting what is not there in that passage.

1 John chapters 2-4 Apostle John is talking to believers in those passages and is telling us how we know that we are saved and have eternal life abiding in us. For there are many who claim they are believers in Christ and are born again but their actions and speech do not show it, and John says look here is how you will know that you are born again.

In a way you are right that he is speaking to unbelievers as well, but you must also include the deceptive ones in that passage as well who believe they are saved but do not walk accordingly.

This is what John is really clarifying here in this epistle, how to determine the false professing from those who have true profession in the faith in Christ !!!

I was just showing you the use of we does not necessarily mean me. As is the case with 1 John. We does not include him as the person having the need to repent and believe on Jesus Christ, because as he stated, he is already in that fellowship with the Father and Son (he already believes the Gospel, he is inviting them into that fellowship). He uses we, not so much as to lighten the blow, but as shown above, a means to narrate to an audience the method and means to salvation. The process.

 

[Mitspa]

NO !!!

When you are doing as the Lord taught and commanded it is His righteousness you are doing, not your own !!!

No its the righteousness of faith, not works, that is the light...that's the light of the gospel. And its in that light that sin is cleansed. If you have sin (and you do) then how can you be in the light if no sin can be in the light?

 

[KennethC]

I was just showing you the use of we does not necessarily mean me. As is the case with 1 John. We does not include him as the person having the need to repent and believe on Jesus Christ, because as he stated, he is already in that fellowship with the Father and Son (he already believes the Gospel, he is inviting them into that fellowship). He uses we, not so much as to lighten the blow, but as shown above, a means to narrate to an audience the method and means to salvation. The process.

Confessing of one's sin does not mean the person does not have faith in the Lord, it means they do trust in Him to cleanse them and thus we pray to Him out of love and respect for committing those sins to be forgiven of them.

If you as a believer sin you take yourself out of that fellowship in the light because sin is darkness.
The way to restore that fellowship into the Light is to confess your sins and the Lord being just will forgive us of those.

To take the confession out of it then you are saying a person can still continue to serve those sins and be saved, which is completely unbiblical as it says you can not serve both flesh and the Spirit both. Apostle Paul shows that if you continue to serve sin everyday that is your master, not the Lord Jesus Christ.

How do we stop serving sin: By repenting and confessing of them !!!

 

[KennethC]

No its the righteousness of faith, not works, that is the light...that's the light of the gospel. And its in that light that sin is cleansed. If you have sin (and you do) then how can you be in the light if no sin can be in the light?

I am done with you, because you are not accepting the scriptures I keep giving that shows by our confession are we restored to the fellowship in the Light.

If you want to keep saying a person can sin in the Light, then you are saying the Holy Spirit sins !!!

 

[Mitspa]

I am done with you, because you are not accepting the scriptures I keep giving that shows by our confession are we restored to the fellowship in the Light.

If you want to keep saying a person can sin in the Light, then you are saying the Holy Spirit sins !!!

Are you not going to explain how you can have sin and be in the light if no sin can be in the light...unless you don't really understand what the term means when John uses it.

 

[KennethC]

Are you not going to explain how you can have sin and be in the light if no sin can be in the light...unless you don't really understand what the term means when John uses it.

Please do not respond to me again if you are not going to accept the multiple scriptures I already gave !!!

 

[VioletReigns]

Man alive! I couldn't follow this thread because it made the simple relationship we have with Jesus Christ look like a gloomy labyrinth of "trying to get back into God's good graces." Yoiks!!!

All we have to do is stop our carnal thoughts from running amok for a few minutes to hear Jesus say, "This is the way. Walk in it."

And we can say, "Oh, of course! You are right, Lord Jesus!"

That's all the confessing I ever do. I confess Jesus Christ is right. He's ALWAYS right. \/ He's Truth!

 

[Mitspa]

Please do not respond to me again if you are not going to accept the multiple scriptures I already gave !!!

Kenneth all you did was avoid the obvious error of your logic by trying to deflect the issue as you do when folks catch you in the error of your doctrine.

 

[BenFTW]

I never spoke of the christian confessing their sin in order not to be condemn (I guess you don't even read my short posts) but rather we as Christians confess our sins for forgiveness that our embattled conscience may be washed clear by the blood of Christ..not for salvation..

Your little theologial system robs the christian wracked with guilt from benefitting by short circuiting the surest way to a peaceful conscience.

1 John 1:7-9 (KJV)
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Psalms 51:1-9 (KJV)
1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

James 5:15 (KJV) And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

So yes, a christian doesn't need to ask forgiveness of sins to be given eternal life each time but rather for a clean conscience and restored fellowship.

A Christian who is oppressed with guilt lacks a revelation of grace and the gift of no condemnation. On the contrary to your opinion and belittling of what you deemed to be my "little theological* system", the belief actually sets people free from guilt and condemnation, even so giving them confidence before the Father. It gives them a clean conscience because it gives them rest.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Jesus Christ...

Knowing we are not condemned, what does this mean?

1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemns us not, then we have confidence toward God.

Notice, that in having a revelation of His grace and gift of no condemnation we then have a confidence towards God. We can come boldly into His presence. We aren't condemned. He loves to spend time with us, and we with Him. There is no barrier, the veil is broken! We have reconciliation and our conscience is ever clean in knowing that His blood cleanses us from all sin.

You come to false conclusions. Grace is the only means to a clean conscience. In Hebews 10 it says that if the blood of bulls and goats actually took sin away (like Jesus' blood) the worshipers would've been free from guilt. They would've been purged and had no more conscience of sins. So on the contrary to what you are saying about sin confession, that is not the means to a clean conscience. The clean conscience comes with a revelation and a growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. It comes through an understanding of His grace. Not through sin confession, but through Christ.

 

[crossnote]

Which is why the article in the original post uses multiple verses and addresses them. Also, funny enough, sin confession is a doctrine made of one verse (1 John 1:9) and no other.

David was a man after God's own heart, I'll gladly follow his example as God's heart doesn't change.

2 Samuel 24:10 (KJV) And David's heart smote him after that he had numbered the people. And David said unto the LORD, I have sinned greatly in that I have done: and now, I beseech thee, O LORD, take away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly.

1 Chronicles 21:17 (KJV) And David said unto God, Is it not I that commanded the people to be numbered? even I it is that have sinned and done evil indeed; but as for these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, O LORD my God, be on me, and on my father's house; but not on thy people, that they should be plagued.

Psalms 51:1-4, 7 (KJV)
1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

 

[crossnote]

Actually no it is not built off one verse, and I gave a few previously that this came from and it was taught in the early church before Catholic dogma was around. So confessing ones sins is not just a Catholic thing to be done !!!

It's more like not confessing our sin is the new psycho babble of the 20th century.

 

[BenFTW]

David was a man after God's own heart, I'll gladly follow his example as God's heart doesn't change.

2 Samuel 24:10 (KJV) And David's heart smote him after that he had numbered the people. And David said unto the LORD, I have sinned greatly in that I have done: and now, I beseech thee, O LORD, take away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly.

1 Chronicles 21:17 (KJV) And David said unto God, Is it not I that commanded the people to be numbered? even I it is that have sinned and done evil indeed; but as for these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, O LORD my God, be on me, and on my father's house; but not on thy people, that they should be plagued.

Psalms 51:1-4, 7 (KJV)
1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Isaiah 1:18King James Version (KJV)

18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

What is the current reality you walk in crossnote? Are not your sins of scarlet as white as snow, having been washed in the blood of Jesus Christ? Does not the Lord remember your sins no more?


Psalm 32King James Version (KJV)

32 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

This is mentioned in Romans.


Romans 4:6-8King James Version (KJV)

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Even David pointed to the reality we walk in. Not the one of which he walked with his confession, but one in which sin was not imputed. The reality you are in, as a child of God. To what ends are you confessing sin to seek mercy as David did, when you have Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross? Don't go under law, don't fall from grace. Rest in Jesus.

 

[crossnote]

It's good that we are part of a new covenant then. I said people use one verse to make a doctrine of sin confession, they never use any other except the one that says to confess our sins to one another (which is to man, and not God, for the healing of our relationships). Thanks for showing that sin confession is OT though, I think that aids the point even clearer.

It says in 1 John 2, we have an Advocate (Jesus Christ) with the Father. John addresses the people he is speaking to as children in 1 John 2, but not in 1 John 1, interestingly enough. He also offers different solutions to the children who sin, saying we have an Advocate, where as in the first chapter he tells them to confess their sin. Notice they didn't believe they sinned, so basically in confessing their sins its an acknowledgement of their need for the Savior; that they are sinners in need of a savior.

Confession of sin is OT? Yup, something Adam and Eve didn’t but should have done. Since when was God's moral law changed? Since when did Christ's work on the cross only apply to NT believers? This is the most absurd statement yet on this thread.

 

[shotgunner]

I wanted to like your post but I wasn't sure if you were saying we only need to repent/confess once.

I know It sounds bad but I used to think OSAS sounded bad too.

No, that's not what I meant. The Holy Spirit will always guide us to a closer relationship with God. He will lead us to confess many things ,since our relationship is to be more than a strictly legal one.

I don't believe that we jump out of salvation every time we sin and we must confess to be back in. If that were the case then who could be saved? Who could perfectly confess and thus cleanse themselves from all sin. Who could stay in that condition of forgiveness? You would only be forgiven until you sinned again. I would need to spend all day , every day confessing lest I die in a sinful state. That would be the worst kind of bondage based on my ability alone.


What I believe John is speaking of is confession to restore proper relationship. My son can have broken relationship with me because of his disobedience, but he is still my son. I will not disown him because he is being stubborn or disobedient. I think Jesus perfectly illustrated this concept in "the prodigal son." Remember how the father ran to meet the son. All things were restored just as if he had never left. That father had always considered his wayward son, still a son.

 

[BenFTW]

Confession of sin is OT? Yup, something Adam and Eve didn’t but should have done. Since when was God's moral law changed? Since when did Christ's work on the cross only apply to NT believers? This is the most absurd statement yet on this thread.

Maybe I should've said part of, and not just plainly OT. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Regardless, the point still stands that we are under a new covenant. Jesus death and resurrection changed how sin is dealt with, and also why we don't confess sin for forgiveness or mercy. We already have that forgiveness in Jesus Christ. You don't sin as David did and seek mercy. You are already in Jesus Christ, He is as the mercy seat on the Ark of the Covenant and His blood as the lambs blood covers you. He takes your sins away. God doesn't look at you, but at Jesus. He doesn't see you, but sees Jesus.

 

[crossnote]

A Christian who is oppressed with guilt lacks a revelation of grace and the gift of no condemnation. On the contrary to your opinion and belittling of what you deemed to be my "little theological* system", the belief actually sets people free from guilt and condemnation, even so giving them confidence before the Father. It gives them a clean conscience because it gives them rest.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Jesus Christ...

Knowing we are not condemned, what does this mean?

1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemns us not, then we have confidence toward God.

Notice, that in having a revelation of His grace and gift of no condemnation we then have a confidence towards God. We can come boldly into His presence. We aren't condemned. He loves to spend time with us, and we with Him. There is no barrier, the veil is broken! We have reconciliation and our conscience is ever clean in knowing that His blood cleanses us from all sin.

You come to false conclusions. Grace is the only means to a clean conscience. In Hebews 10 it says that if the blood of bulls and goats actually took sin away (like Jesus' blood) the worshipers would've been free from guilt. They would've been purged and had no more conscience of sins. So on the contrary to what you are saying about sin confession, that is not the means to a clean conscience. The clean conscience comes with a revelation and a growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. It comes through an understanding of His grace. Not through sin confession, but through Christ.

So I suppose when you sin big time you have no conscience bothering you? Seared conscience? No. I have been through that little theological simple wrap system you are espousing and it doesn't wash...especially a guilt ridden conscience due to real sin, not your made up scenario.

 

[crossnote]

Isaiah 1:18King James Version (KJV)

18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

What is the current reality you walk in crossnote? Are not your sins of scarlet as white as snow, having been washed in the blood of Jesus Christ? Does not the Lord remember your sins no more?


Psalm 32King James Version (KJV)

32 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

This is mentioned in Romans.


Romans 4:6-8King James Version (KJV)

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Even David pointed to the reality we walk in. Not the one of which he walked with his confession, but one in which sin was not imputed. The reality you are in, as a child of God. To what ends are you confessing sin to seek mercy as David did, when you have Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross? Don't go under law, don't fall from grace. Rest in Jesus.

so? Answer Psalm 51 where david pleads to God for forgiveness, and where Jesus claims David a man after God's heart.

 

[crossnote]

Maybe I should've said part of, and not just plainly OT. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Regardless, the point still stands that we are under a new covenant. Jesus death and resurrection changed how sin is dealt with, and also why we don't confess sin for forgiveness or mercy. We already have that forgiveness in Jesus Christ. You don't sin as David did and seek mercy. You are already in Jesus Christ, He is as the mercy seat on the Ark of the Covenant and His blood as the lambs blood covers you. He takes your sins away. God doesn't look at you, but at Jesus. He doesn't see you, but sees Jesus.

I don't deny He has dealt with our sins at Calvary, but I also don't deny we are to seek forgiveness of the sins we commit. Is the word 'both' part of your vocabulary?

 

[Galatians2-20]

I am pretty confident as well...that your broad brush and application of (hyper grace) is out of order, nothing more than an assumption, your opinion, does not necessarily make you or him right etc.........

Broad stroke? I am one of maybe two or three people on this forum that actually knows the history of this doctrine, it's origins, and what elements are borrowed from which doctrines. I could get into detail however, most advocates of this theology have little to no knowledge of theology, doctrine, or their historical roots so there is no point of getting to it. Hyper grace advocates are very well known for their refusal to accept anything outside of their very limited theological perspective. So rather than engage you myself, it is best to allow God to reveal himself to you. That is if you are willing to humble yourself and allow Him to do so.

 

[shotgunner]

Maybe I should've said part of, and not just plainly OT. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Regardless, the point still stands that we are under a new covenant. Jesus death and resurrection changed how sin is dealt with, and also why we don't confess sin for forgiveness or mercy. We already have that forgiveness in Jesus Christ. You don't sin as David did and seek mercy. You are already in Jesus Christ, He is as the mercy seat on the Ark of the Covenant and His blood as the lambs blood covers you. He takes your sins away. God doesn't look at you, but at Jesus. He doesn't see you, but sees Jesus.

I do agree with everything you posted here. At the same time we often miss the mark. There is nothing wrong with running to our father with our problems, confessing where we have missed it, and seeking advise and help. I don't believe that our sins cause us to loose our position in Christ, but that doesn't mean that there isn't great benefit in confession.