Obsession with Confession (1 John 1:9, sin confession)

[WoundedWarrior]

I don't even like the term hyper grace. I've just started hearing it and it's ridiculous and just an attack on grace itself. How can God give too much grace or how can too much grace be received. If there's any false teaching of grace, just call it false teaching but don't call it hyper grace. The Word says where sin did abound grace abounded much more, or you might even say hyper abounded.

I think the only "hyper-grace" false teaching is that of those who claim to have this License to Sin -- still haven't found any of those people (in real life, or here on CC)... but apparently people seem to think that this is the latest norm?!

 

[Galahad]

Maybe I am not understanding what you guys mean by FELLOWSHIP. And being, "out of it" or back "in it."

When I went to the CoC, and those legalistic baasheads "disfellowshiped" someone, there was not even the slightest hint of acknowledgment that they ever existed. We were to almost do the Klingon thing of spinning on our heels, and turning our backs to them. I've sinned a lot (I'm not as righteous as some) but God has never once done anything like that to me. He has even answered my prayers when I was still screwed-up.

Willie,
What's a baashead? What's your understanding or interpretation of 1 Corinthians 5?

 

[Willie-T]

Willie,
What's a baashead? What's your understanding or interpretation of 1 Corinthians 5?

That's a "combining" of two words, to make one. You can probably guess what the two words are.

I see 1 Cor. 5 as applying to someone who has no intention of stopping their actions, nor changing their minds. The CoC Elders used it as a form of punishment for anyone making the organization look bad.

 

[Galahad]

Its rather long but I found it on the web and feel like it addresses 1 John 1:9 really well.

True.

If you have the time, give it a read. It will definitely open your eyes to the truth, in regards to whether a Christian must confess their sins in order to be forgiven or not. One of the best methods to address 1 John 1:9 to those who believe in sin confession, considering this is the only verse to support the doctrine. Enjoy...

Now that's some preparatory leading! Priming the pump.

1 John 1:9
When we read the Bible, we need to look at the context in which each book was written. If we don't do that, it's easy to misinterpret what a particular book or chapter is really saying. When that happens, we can easily come to wrong conclusions, which can then cause a lot of misunderstanding about the work of Christ on our behalf.

First there was a priming of the reader, now there's an appeal to context.

One example of this is that many people believe that although their sins have been forgiven prior to salvation, after salvation it is up to them to obtain forgiveness through their confession.

Who believes this? Not saying there isn't. But is there a group of individuals, a school, a religious group? I have never heard of this before.

Others believe that all their sins have been forgiven at the cross, however, they cannot experience forgiveness unless they confess each time they sin.

Are you sure you have stated this correctly? Each time? Perhaps you are misrepresenting a doctrine or belief?

(I John 1:1).
In other words, John is establishing that he was an eyewitness to the fact that Jesus truly did come in the flesh. He did this to convince the Gnostics that Jesus was not an illusion.

"We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" (verse 3).
This verse says two things. First, John repeats the fact that he, the rest of the apostles and other people saw Christ in the flesh. He wanted the Gnostics to realize that there were many people who could testify to the reality of Christ. Second, he is saying that there are some people in the audience who were not in the fellowship with Christ.

Where does he say that there are some people in the audience who were not in the fellowship with Christ? Where is that?

 

[BenFTW]

True.

Now that's some preparatory leading! Priming the pump.

First there was a priming of the reader, now there's an appeal to context.

[/B]
Who believes this? Not saying there isn't. But is there a group of individuals, a school, a religious group? I have never heard of this before.

[/B] Are you sure you have stated this correctly? Each time? Perhaps you are misrepresenting a doctrine or belief?

[/B]
Where does he say that there are some people in the audience who were not in the fellowship with Christ? Where is that?

[/B]

I don't know how you could not have heard of such doctrines as a majority of Christians subscribe to the belief of sin confession. Either confess so that the sin can be forgiven, or confess in order to attain the forgiveness that is theirs in Christ. One is receiving forgiveness (out of His mercy), and the other is receiving His forgiveness by application (of the forgiveness that is theirs in Christ).

Of course, some people skip both of those and say it has nothing to do with eternal security and strictly has to do with fellowship with God and that the sin breaks fellowship (and doesn't cost us our security in Christ). I think all three are wrong.

 

[BenFTW]

I don't even like the term hyper grace. I've just started hearing it and it's ridiculous and just an attack on grace itself. How can God give too much grace or how can too much grace be received. If there's any false teaching of grace, just call it false teaching but don't call it hyper grace. The Word says where sin did abound grace abounded much more, or you might even say hyper abounded.

You think thats bad? Ever hear "greasy grace?" Thats just down right offensive.

 

[BenFTW]

I think the only "hyper-grace" false teaching is that of those who claim to have this License to Sin -- still haven't found any of those people (in real life, or here on CC)... but apparently people seem to think that this is the latest norm?!

Its the legalistic fear of liberty. If one can sin without eternal penalty, what is holding them back? The answer? Love. Even so, the reality of being a new creation and being the temple of the Holy Spirit who comes with many benefits. The correct term being the fruit of the Spirit. People think that if sin arises in a church the Law must be preached so people see what they are doing is wrong. Okay, but that doesn't give them the power to change. Its not the remedy that is needed. Growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, beholding Jesus, is the means to a changed life. The renewing of our minds to who Jesus is and who we are in Him.

 

[Gr8grace]

Religion has coined all the "phrases" of Grace. They don't understand grace. Only the positive believer understands grace.

Religion will call grace "greasy" or "easy" or "hyper"


I have yet to see a grace church or seen a link to a grace church that has a pastor with a bottle of jack in one hand and a cigar in the other, and 2 ladies of the night under each arm while cussing at the congregation that they are not sinning enough so that grace may abound.

Where are these churches?!?

And honestly..............I would rather go to these churches than some arrogant, prideful, religious church that calls farting a sin.

 

[BenFTW]

Religion has coined all the "phrases" of Grace. They don't understand grace. Only the positive believer understands grace.

Religion will call grace "greasy" or "easy" or "hyper"


I have yet to see a grace church or seen a link to a grace church that has a pastor with a bottle of jack in one hand and a cigar in the other, and 2 ladies of the night under each arm while cussing at the congregation that they are not sinning enough so that grace may abound.

Where are these churches?!?

And honestly..............I would rather go to these churches than some arrogant, prideful, religious church that calls farting a sin.

Right, the way people portray this concept of hyper grace they would have people boasting in their sins.

 

[shotgunner]

I don't know how you could not have heard of such doctrines as a majority of Christians subscribe to the belief of sin confession. Either confess so that the sin can be forgiven, or confess in order to attain the forgiveness that is theirs in Christ. One is receiving forgiveness (out of His mercy), and the other is receiving His forgiveness by application (of the forgiveness that is theirs in Christ).

Of course, some people skip both of those and say it has nothing to do with eternal security and strictly has to do with fellowship with God and that the sin breaks fellowship (and doesn't cost us our security in Christ). I think all three are wrong.

Ben, I do see confession as breaking fellowship but probably not in the way some would think. It can not be that God is angry with me or that I have in any way moved out of a father son relationship with Him. Just like I might go to my earthly father and tell him what I have done wrong and seek help, we should also go to our heavenly father. If I'm born again, I know when I've sinned. God certainly knows when I've sinned. I see it as more of admitting a problem before the Lord in prayer so that he can help you get rid of it from your life. It's a formal submitting of my will to his will. It gets that sin off my conscience and out of my mind. It allows his word. that says he will cleanse me from all unrighteousness, to be forefront in my thinking rather than my guilt. It helps me to get back on the right track in my Christian walk.

That walk part is where the breaking of fellowship has occurred. Just imagine if you worked for your father but you messed up in a delivery or sale. Your father has mercy on you and isn't going to fire you or disown you for that mistake.You can go to him and confess what you did so that he can help you get back on track. He really does want you to inherit it all, and he will help you correct your mistakes in order to do so.

 

[Gr8grace]

Ben, I do see confession as breaking fellowship but probably not in the way some would think. It can not be that God is angry with me or that I have in any way moved out of a father son relationship with Him. Just like I might go to my earthly father and tell him what I have done wrong and seek help, we should also go to our heavenly father. If I'm born again, I know when I've sinned. God certainly knows when I've sinned. I see it as more of admitting a problem before the Lord in prayer so that he can help you get rid of it from your life. It's a formal submitting of my will to his will. It gets that sin off my conscience and out of my mind. It allows his word. that says he will cleanse me from all unrighteousness, to be forefront in my thinking rather than my guilt. It helps me to get back on the right track in my Christian walk.

That walk part is where the breaking of fellowship has occurred. Just imagine if you worked for your father but you messed up in a delivery or sale. Your father has mercy on you and isn't going to fire you or disown you for that mistake.You can go to him and confess what you did so that he can help you get back on track. He really does want you to inherit it all, and he will help you correct your mistakes in order to do so.

I agree. Sinning or evil(Religion/human good) takes us out of the walk in the Spirit. Gods not looking to "get us" and make us pay,pay,pay. He wants us to recognize where we left the walk, name it,site it and carry on. He is concerned that we get back in the Walk, not making us PAY for failing.

 

[BenFTW]

We've been discussing sin confession and how 1 John 1:9 is actually directed towards Gnosticism. I'd like to take another angle on this, that would put into question even the idea of having to confess our sins. Mainly recognizing Jesus as High Priest and also verses that speak of God not remembering our sins, or even holding them against us. Now, of course, I can already see people crying out that this is in reference to past sins prior to conversion... even though technically all sin past the cross was future, but that is besides the point. We have to examine what it means that Jesus is our High Priest, and also what that means in how sin is dealt with (or rather was dealt with).

I was going to do research and post verses, but I realized back in 2014 I made a detailed post about this, so rather than basically write what I already wrote once, I am going to just share the post I wrote on Jesus as High Priest. I think it clearly shows that sin has been dealt with, and if it has, theres no reason to confess in order that we be forgiven.

Hebrews 7:18-25
New International Version (NIV)

18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
20 And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21 but he became apriest with an oath when God said to him:
“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’”

22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.
23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office;24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.


He is able to save you completely because he always lives to intercede for you. Do you see the depths of his love for you?
He points to the cross. Remember his words? "It is finished!" I will now explain something in regards to your future sins. Most everyone is able to accept that upon accepting Christ their sins are forgiven. However, people assume this means past sins only. I will endeavor to show you, through scripture, that not only your past sins have been dealt with, but present and future sins. We will use Hebrews and tie it in to the above verse, that He is our HighPriest (forever).

We are going to look at Hebrews 10.

Hebrews 10
New International Version (NIV)

Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All

10 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

So, we see that the blood of bulls and goats never really took away sins. The blood just covered them, until the next sin and then they had to do another sacrifice. As is said, "Fresh sin, fresh blood." This is why the priests had to keep doing it again and again. And mind you, this only covered past sins. Not future sins, remember "Fresh sin, fresh blood." Hebrews 10 goes on to say this:
11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices,which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest[Jesus] had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Before I make my next point (a comparison of the blood of bulls and goats, and Jesus' blood), I'd like to point some things out in verses 11-14. First off it says he offered "for all time one sacrifice for sins." All time... past? Yes. Present? Sound about right. Future? That's all time, so yes. I will further make this point, but let me also point out that Jesus sat down, as a priest. He, unlike the other priests before him, did one sacrifice and sat down at the Father's right hand. The other priests had to continually sacrifice, with every new sin, however Jesus, did it once and sat down. Is "It is finished" ringing in your ears?

Now, lets make another point. If the blood of bulls and goats only covered past sins (fresh sin, fresh blood, and it did), what makes Jesus' blood any better, if it too only covers past sins? Not to mention, all your sins were future in reference to the cross. But, think about it. If Jesus' blood was like that of the blood of animals, only dealing with past sins, would that not mean with every new sin, he'd have to be sacrificed (just like the bulls and goats)? Not to mention, Jesus' blood didn't cover sins, but took away sins.

Hebrews 9:24-28
New International Version (NIV)

24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence.25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own.26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

That's a lot to take in, especially if you come from a religious background of sin confession and keeping "short accounts" with God. So, let me ask you. Is the blood of Jesus greater than the blood of bulls and goats? It isn't if you have to keep confessing your sins for forgiveness sake, then you might as well keep sacrificing the blood of bulls and goats. Its the same thing right? Only covering past sins, right? With every new sin, a person confesses it for forgiveness. It just like the blood of bulls and goats, Old Testament way of dealing with sins, just not as messy. But, as has been shown above, all sins for all time have been taken away. We are forgiven. Let me show you what the Holy Spirit says on the matter, in the Word.

15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”

17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”

18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

If I indeed dare say, if a person confesses sins for forgiveness sake, they are making the blood of Jesus common, which refers to making it be like the blood of bulls and goats, only able to deal with the past. With every confession being like a new sacrifice, to cover the new sin.

So, lets tie it in. Lets go back to the first scripture quoted to let you have your assurance of salvation!

Hebrews 7:23-25

New International Version (NIV)

23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office;24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

How does he intercede? By pointing to His finished work! The cross, and His shed blood. That blood cleanses you, and has taken away your sins (past, present, and future)!

 

[vic1980]

Proverbs 28:13 People who conceal their sins will not prosper, but if they confess and turn from them, they will receive mercy.

receive mercy from whom ? Answer: Jesus Christ

 

[BarlyGurl]

>>>>And honestly..............I would rather go to these churches than some arrogant, prideful, religious church that calls farting a sin.<<<<

I know you meant this to be "vehement" but I just laughed and laughed... thank you so much... it was great!

 

[BradC]

Confessing our sin to God is to acknowledge what we have done based upon the conviction of the Holy Spirit. When we acknowledge our sin He is faithful and just to forgive us because the blood of his Son was shed for the remission of all sin. Christ is our scapegoat, our justification, our redemption and our advocate.

 

[Gr8grace]

Confessing our sin to God is to acknowledge what we have done based upon the conviction of the Holy Spirit. When we acknowledge our sin He is faithful and just to forgive us because the blood of his Son was shed for the remission of all sin. Christ is our scapegoat, our justification, our redemption and our advocate.

I agree. Honestly, this Idea that the believer does not have to name and site sin to God after being born-again is dangerous in the sense of not living in the Christian way of Life.

Sin has no judgement for the believer, but it does have temporal consequences. Namely, worry,fear and guilt will set into the believers life. And worry,fear and guilt are not part of the Christian way of life.

We simply acknowledge where we stepped of the tracks and get back on the tracks.

It is not a salvation issue for the believer, it is a relationship issue in our experiential walk with the Lord.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Proverbs 28:13 People who conceal their sins will not prosper, but if they confess and turn from them, they will receive mercy.

receive mercy from whom ? Answer: Jesus Christ

would this be talking about people who are walking in darkness(unsaved)?

 

[sydlit]

I agree. Honestly, this Idea that the believer does not have to name and site sin to God after being born-again is dangerous in the sense of not living in the Christian way of Life.

Sin has no judgement for the believer, but it does have temporal consequences. Namely, worry,fear and guilt will set into the believers life. And worry,fear and guilt are not part of the Christian way of life.

We simply acknowledge where we stepped of the tracks and get back on the tracks.

It is not a salvation issue for the believer, it is a relationship issue in our experiential walk with the Lord.

I admit I struggle with this. How long before I get back up? It so often feels like cheating if I just quickly jump 'back on track' but others tell me don't beat yourself up, you have to forgive yourself as well. But since I've never been very good at 'hearing His voice' or knowing what God or the Holy Spirit is trying to prompt me towards, I just don't feel rightrejoicing, like I'm taking advantage of God's kindness, knowing I'm forgiven. How soon is it okay?

 

[MsLimpet]

I admit I struggle with this. How long before I get back up? It so often feels like cheating if I just quickly jump 'back on track' but others tell me don't beat yourself up, you have to forgive yourself as well. But since I've never been very good at 'hearing His voice' or knowing what God or the Holy Spirit is trying to prompt me towards, I just don't feel rightrejoicing, like I'm taking advantage of God's kindness, knowing I'm forgiven. How soon is it okay?

Hi, I just kind of jumped in here today and yours was the first post I read, but I was studying this morning and felt is was appropriate to share this with you. It applied to me and I hope it helps you.

Blessed are those who mourn,
because they will be comforted.—Matthew 5:4

God wants us to experience His joy (John 15:11). Yet we cannot experience His joy until we have mourned over our sin. If we do not grieve over the weight of our sin, we have no concept of sin's devastating power. If we treat our sin lightly, we demonstrate that we have no sense of the enormity of our offense against almighty God. Our sin caused the death of God's Son. It causes us to fall short of what God intends (Rom. 3:23). It brings pain and sorrow to others, as well as to ourselves.

The Bible says that those who grieve over their sin will draw near to God (James 4:8–10). Those who mourn and weep over their sin are in a position to repent (Luke 4:18–19). There cannot be repentance without the realization of the gravity of sin. Regret for sin's consequences is not the same as sorrow for sinning against holy God. Confession of sin is not necessarily an indication of repentance. Repentance comes only when we acknowledge that our transgression has come from a heart that is far from God, and we are brokenhearted over our grievous offenses against holy God.

Jesus said that those who are heartbroken over their sin will find comfort. They will experience new dimensions of God's love and forgiveness. His infinite grace is sufficient for the most terrible sin. Do not try and skip the grieving process of repentance in order to move on to experience joy. God will not leave you to weep over your sin but will forgive you, comfort you, and fill you with His joy.
Experiencing God Day by Day: A Devotional and Journal.

 

[Gr8grace]

I admit I struggle with this. How long before I get back up? It so often feels like cheating if I just quickly jump 'back on track' but others tell me don't beat yourself up, you have to forgive yourself as well. But since I've never been very good at 'hearing His voice' or knowing what God or the Holy Spirit is trying to prompt me towards, I just don't feel rightrejoicing, like I'm taking advantage of God's kindness, knowing I'm forgiven. How soon is it okay?

It is getting back into the mindset that Jesus Christ took the payment for you. You don't need to worry........its not a part of our walk.

We immediately name and site sin. As soon as we recognize it. Don't delay. Have you ever had those moments when your 6 words into saying something and you think,"Where in the world did that come from?"...name and site it. Carry on.

Rejoice in the fact that He carried the payment for that sin.

Worry,fear and guilt is not the place God wants your mind,that is why He sent his Son for us.