Well, since dcon and others insist that Jesus believes in and taught "once saved, always saved" or "eternal security", I'll cite some of His teachings for us to consider and then periodically list more if need be:
"And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned? It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." (Luke 14:25-35)
What "foundation" can men lay and begin to build upon other than the "foundation" of Christ? What did Jesus mean when He spoke of those who "began to build" upon this "foundation", but "were not able to finish"? What did Jesus mean about entering into a "war" without consulting first whether or not you would be able to endure the onslaught from the opposing kingdom if this "war" isn't the spiritual "war" that Christians enter into against Satan? When Jesus warned of those who would send out an "ambassador and desire conditions of peace" with their adversary, was He not referring to Christians who would get battle weary and drop out of the fight? What did Jesus mean when He spoke of "salt losing its savour". Who is "the salt of the earth" if not Christians? What happens to Christians who "lose their savour" or who lose their saltiness? Are they "once saved, always saved" or are they "not even fit for the dunghill" and are "cast out"? Who here has ears to hear what Jesus said and meant?
"Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience." (Luke 8:11-15)
Who are these who "when they hear, receive the word with joy" and "which for a while believe and in time of temptation fall away"? Don't tell me...let me guess:
Those who never believed and those who never fell away, right?
Why don't you believe the words of Jesus? Are you wiser than Him? Mark said that these "endure but for a time" (Mark 4:17) and Jesus said that we need to endure unto the end to be saved (Matthew 10:22, 24:13).
What about those who "bring no fruit to perfection"? It sure sounds to me like the "fruit" was growing until something happened to it. Matthew said that "he becomes unfruitful" (Matthew 13:22). Can someone "become unfruitful" who wasn't "fruitful" to begin with? What happened to the one who "became unfruitful"? He was "choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life". Can weeds "choke" that which wasn't there to begin with? Apparently, you and others would have us to believe that they can, but some of us simply aren't that gullible and our souls are way too valuable to us for us to dismiss the repeated warnings of Jesus and His Apostles.
"Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses." (Matthew 18:21-35)
Who was this "servant" who was released from an incredible debt that he could never pay his king when he cried out for mercy? Wasn't Jesus here speaking of Christians who are released from their incredible debt of sin? Of course, He was. Well, what happened to this "servant" when he refused to forgive a fellow servant? HE HAD HIS DEBT RESTORED TO HIM. Now, tell me...does that sound like "once saved, always saved" to you? For crying out loud, man, this "servant" was "delivered to the tormentors until he should pay off his debt". How was he to pay it? The Lord released him from it and then restored it to him again. How does this jive with your totally pulled out of context verse from Ecclesiastes? If what the Lord does is eternal in the manner in which you'd have us to believe, then why did He release this debt only to later restore it? You're at odds with Jesus Christ, friend, and that's not a good place to be.
"For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money. After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:14-30)
Who were these "servants" unto whom the Lord gave "talents" which He expected them to trade with so that at His return He might receive back what He had given them with "usury" or with interest? Aren't they Christians who are supposed to be spreading the gospel that others might be saved so that Jesus truly can "reap where He hasn't sown and gather where He hasn't strawed"? IOW, aren't Christians supposed to be "sowing" and "strawing" or aren't they supposed to be "occupying until Jesus comes" as we read in Luke's account (Luke 19:13)? What happened to "the unprofitable servant"? Was he "once saved, always saved" as you'd have us to believe? Did he retain that which the Lord had originally given Him because, according to your butchering of the Ecclesiastes passage, everything that the Lord does is eternal? Friend, HIS TALENT WAS TAKEN FROM HIM AND HE WAS CAST INTO OUTER DARKNESS WHERE THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH. If that sounds like "always saved" to you, then you need a lot of help.
Well, that's just an introduction. Let's see who wants to mess with Jesus' words unto their own possible/probable destruction and the possible/probable destruction of those foolish enough to follow them and let's see who wants to believe what Jesus taught and teach it to others as well. I know which side I'm on and I'm not budging from it. Jesus neither believes in nor did He teach "once saved, always saved". In fact, He believes in and taught the exact opposite and, again, the above is only an introduction.
