Is the Devil bound right now...?

[Cassian]

pottersclay,

I'm sorry I just don't see it as his first coming. Second yes first no.

be kinda difficult to bind him when he will be thrown into the fire.

Paul talks about a tanner I think he turns over to Satan....

a totally irrelevant statement respective of the topic. It has nothing to do with Satan existence, or his effectiveness, or what he has always done in this world.
What it is about is that Christ came to defeat death, the power of Satan. Christ is not coming again, Incarnated to die to defeat death. He did that 2000 years ago.

There is so any things against your theory we would need to call paul, Peter, john, and so much a liar..

it would be one thing if it was even a theory, let alone mine. This explanation has existed from the beginning. It has never changed. It was attacked by false teachers regarding Christ's Incarnation and the nature of His Humanity in three Ecumenical Councils, but all were declared heretical.
Which is why no one can refute it with scripture. It does not match up to some of the current false teaching which the poll shows, most have no understanding of the relationship of the fall to Christ's redemption from that fall.

It just doesn't fit.

of course it does not fit when what you have stated is not even relevant and on topic.

Have to agree to disagree.

That is your choice.

You can let down your guard if you want.. as for me Satan is alive and loose on the planet earth.
Greater is he that is in me than he of the world.

I can hold to that as well. Even more so than you, since you think you are still condemned to death through Adam. You apparently do not believe Christ came or that He came to defeat death and sin, to free mankind from the bondage to death and sin as per scripture. Rather you have some other purpose and method that Jesus used and accomplished than what scripture states.

Satan is even more intent now than before Christ came because he knows he has lost the war and is intent on at least getting most to deny Christ. He cannot destroy this creation or mankind as was his intent. He tried several times to kill Christ and when he finally succeeded he thought he had won the war as well. But Christ arose from the dead, destroyed death "binding Satan", gave life to the world, brought the world and mankind back to it original purpose.

 

[Cassian]

LT,

What more can be said, my child?
Your version of the problem is not within Scripture, and so your take on salvation from the problem is not within Scripture.
Your view is dualism. It is what the Babylonian wisemen (Chaldeans) taught. How deceived can one be?

If it is false as you state, where is your evidence that it is false?

It happens to be the very hallmark of Christianity that differentiates it from all other religions. Apparentlty from what you believe as well, since you state it is not scriptural.

Can you prove from scripture that man does not die? That man was not condemned to death due to Adam's sin? Can you prove that Christ did not die, or if He died, He did not rise from the dead? Can you show from scriture that there will be no resurrection from the dead?

These are all truths you just denied so I will leave it to you to show your view from scripture.

I think it would behoove you to at least study scripture outside of whatever blinders you have on presently, rather than make such unsubstantiated assertions.

Oh, explain what you mean by Babylonian dualism? I'm not familiar with it.

 

[LT]

Can you prove from scripture that man does not die? That man was not condemned to death due to Adam's sin? Can you prove that Christ did not die, or if He died, He did not rise from the dead? Can you show from scriture that there will be no resurrection from the dead.

If you think these things are contingent upon your position, you are delusional.
If you think I denied these, then reread my post.
Zero logical connection.

You neglect the divide between the physical and the spiritual, and the relationship between the two.
The Resurrection is the key.

There is no use in debating with you, because you have no understanding of spiritual things, or even logical things.
Nothing you said was relevant to the points I made.
I should not have been so cruel in saying "laughable" though. It is not funny. It is a burden upon my heart that blindness is so rampant, and that it affects you.

 

[Cassian]

If you think these things are contingent upon your position, you are delusional.
If you think I denied these, then reread my post.
Zero logical connection.

show that they are not contingent on your position. Just what is your position?

You neglect the divide between the physical and the spiritual, and the relationship between the two.
The Resurrection is the key.

so explain it.

There is no use in debating with you, because you have no understanding of spiritual things, or even logical things.
Nothing you said was relevant to the points I made.
I should not have been so cruel in saying "laughable" though. It is not funny. It is a burden upon my heart that blindness is so rampant, and that it affects you.

if they are not relational, then produce the evidence that supports whatever theory you might have. You make great assertions, but lack the evidence to back them up.

Until you can do that what you have stated thus far has no weight. I'll accept if I am incorrect, however, where is the evidence that I am incorrect? Saying I am blind, is an empty assertion.

 

[Bowman]

The lone text you are using, Heb 2:15 and your translation does not agree with the rest of scripture.

A review…


Heb 2.14 - 15


Since, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, in like manner He Himself also shared the same things, that through death He might render entirely idle (katargēsē)the one having the power of death, that is, the devil; and might set these free (apallaxē),as many as by fear of death were subject to slavery through all the lifetime to live.



The reader is informed that at Jesus’ death:

· The Devil is rendered entirely idle (katargēsē)
· Because The Devil has been rendered impotent, this then sets people free (apallaxē)
· No mention that The Devil has been defeated, only bound





Compare to where the exact term ‘katargēsē’ is used in 1 Cor…




1 Cor 15.20 - 26


But now Christ has been raised from the dead; He became the firstfruit of those having fallen asleep. For since death is through man, also through a Man is a resurrection of the dead; for as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruit; afterward those of Christ at His coming.Then the end, after He delivers the kingdom to The God and Father, after He might render entirely idle (katargēsē) all rule and all authority and power.For it is right for Him to reign until He puts all the hostile ones under His feet;the last hostile thing made to cease is death.




The reader is informed of an ordered sequence of events:


· The First Resurrection: Christ first, then The Righteous at His return (i.e. at the end of His reign)
· Binding of Satan: The Devil (singular) is rendered entirely idle and occurs BEFORE the reign of Christ (i.e. at Jesus’ death upon the Cross)
· Reigning Period: There is a period of Christ reigning (i.e. 1,000 years, etc) until all the enemies (plural, demons) are conquered
· The Second Resurrection: (Second Death – when Satan & death are defeated). This is the end of time – which occurs AFTER Jesus has delivered up the kingdom and AFTER Jesus had first bound Satan.






Again, we can see agreement in other scripture that Satan is first bound at the Cross – which is followed by the ‘1000 year’ reign of Christ, in which The Righteous are allowed to come to Christ without the direct blockage of Satan.

 

[Bowman]

I disagree with the Dispensationalists on most of these topics,
but on this,
how can one possibly believe that Satan was not an influence in WW2, the Holocaust, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the persecution from Nero, the current US public education curriculum, modern media, the persecution from ISIS, etc...

If the Apostles warned us of the Enemy prowling about like a lion seeking to devour,
why do we question them? He remains, an obviously unbound as of yet.

Things have gotten worse, not better, since the Church was established.

If Satan was bound around the time that the Church was established,
then why have things gotten worse, and why are things prophesied to continue worsening?
Is the Church itself worse than Satan ever was?! Come on! Get real.
The Binding is yet to come.
The Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are not in line with the Truth of Scripture on this.

Again...

Why do you people fall-back on ONE mis-interpreted scripture as the basis for your worldview?

Further, that one verse provides the reader with the same description as that of the demons in Revelation.

The evil in the world today is the result of some 200,000,000 free-range demons that are NOT bound like Satan...

 

[Bowman]

Who said anything about two more comings of Christ ???

There is only one more coming of the Lord, that has not taken place yet, and as for your Pentecost theory we are over 1,000 years since that happened and in these past years in history there has never been a 1,000 years time of peace on earth.

We are in the '1K period' right now, as we speak.

Christ is reigning.

Christ is reigning because He bound Satan at the Cross.

 

[Bowman]

Well he is not currently bound in the pit of hell for if he was then there would be a 1,000 years time of peace with the Lord ruling all the nations. His millennial reign !!!

The way he is bound now is only by using the word of God to not effect our lives, but he still walks around and influences others who are not in the faith and even comes after others who are in the faith to draw them away.

Read your scripture...

What occurs when Satan is unbound?

That's right...IMMEDIATE all-out war, and the end.

We don't see that right now...what we see are the deeds of the demons...

 

[Bowman]

Scripture states that Crhist decended into Hades and took those who where held captive by death.

No.

But you can now show your exegesis for your worldview...or continue to ignore it...

 

[Bowman]

I have yet to see any explanation in this entire thread. Bouman the OP originator does not have any answers either.

Actually, I have kept a pretty tight rein on the topic of this thread.

The Topic is very specific....and pertains to when Satan was Bound.

What you have done, and continue to do, is do the jitter-bug around this one specific event...and blend it with The resurrection and your man-made catholic wonton assertion that Jesus descended into hell, etc, etc.

We are not interested in your lame assertions which you never defend....but cold, hard scriptural exegesis to the binding of Satan.

 

[gkroo]

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

The question is, is the Devil an angel? If you call Satan the Devil, then in Job,

Job_1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job_1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Rev_20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

We see by the writings the Devil is Satan. The point that should be taken from the writings of Job is Satan is bound in the earth. So the Devil was bound in the earth when the sin was committed in the garden.

 

[gkroo]

To further my point about the Devil being bound in the earth, go to Deuteronomy and Judges,

Deu 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
Deu 34:6 And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.

Jud_1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

 

[Bowman]

To further my point about the Devil being bound in the earth, go to Deuteronomy and Judges,

Deu 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
Deu 34:6 And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.

Jud_1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

I see what you are getting at....however, the 'casting-down' and the 'binding' are two different events according to scripture....yes?

When Satan was cast-down to the earth, he retained his full 'power' and could directly possess someone.

After he was bound at the Cross, however, he was rendered impotent and locked and sealed in the abyss.

 

[gkroo]

Oh, I see what you are saying. By Christ death, the Devil was bound and locked into the abyss. That is what was told you by the post that told you of Christ descending into hell.

 

[gkroo]

But, there is a problem with that explanation too. Peter was given the keys to Heaven and Christ has the keys to hell.

Mat_16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Rev_1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

If Peter bound Satan, the Devil, in Heaven, he is bound.

 

[gkroo]

It is Peter that is in charge of all the happenings and horses and plagues in Revelation!

 

[JaumeJ]

Nope...........

 

[Cassian]

Actually, I have kept a pretty tight rein on the topic of this thread.

The Topic is very specific....and pertains to when Satan was Bound.

What you have done, and continue to do, is do the jitter-bug around this one specific event...and blend it with The resurrection and your man-made catholic wonton assertion that Jesus descended into hell, etc, etc.

We are not interested in your lame assertions which you never defend....but cold, hard scriptural exegesis to the binding of Satan.

To the point that you have made I have never disagreed. However the simple binding of Satan is meaningless of itself. This where you have been unable to present any evidence whereby the binding has any significance at all in scripture. What does the binding do for our salvation? Why was it necessary for Satan to be bound?

All you are basically doing is taking a translation of one word to show what the word means, but not the scriptural/theological meaning. We can do that with a lot of other words as well. Take another word which gets mutilated, baptism. The word has very specific meaning, however, what it means scripturally/theologically is bypassed by most. You can even take the word Cross and say Christ died on the Cross. But what does that mean, scripturally/theologically.

So, since you have had several days to ponder your view, can you answer the questions? Or explain in great detail just what your binding of Satan actually means. And support it with scripture.

 

[Jasher]

You have to look at the full context of the passage to answer this question...

Revelation is loaded with symbols - also most numbers are not arithmetic (except when noted) but rather symbols. Armageddon is also used here as a symbol. Har Megiddo was the place of Israel's greatest battles. So it is symbolic of a "great conflict or battle". “Gog Magog” is also a symbol as well and not an actual battle but it is a reference going back to the second century BC when it physically took place. Ezekiel coined the term in his prophesy of the coming of Antiochus to Israel in Chapters 38-39. This prophesy took about 400 years to come to pass. Antiochus came in the second century BC and almost brought Israel into a point of annihilation. He slaughtered the Jews in Jerusalem, sold them into slavery, burned their Holy books, desecrated their temple, and embarked on a program to Hellenize them. For the first time a conqueror tried to annihilate their culture, and religion. Babylon and Persia did not but were somewhat sympathetic to the Jews.

So when you put these two symbols together you have "A great battle of annihilation." So does this fit the context of Johns passage in Revelation?

Revelation 20:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
[SUP]3 [/SUP] and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
And...

Revelation 20:7-10 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Satan has been bound for all of the Church age symbolized by the number 1,000 years. Bound in what way? Look at what he was capable of after he was loosed for a little while.

Revelation 20:7-8 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

So if this is his capability after he was released what was he limited to while he was bound? Right just the opposite. Allow me to reverse the sentence.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] and he will [not be able] to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth.
So we see that the only restriction that he had placed on him was that he could not deceive all of the nations in the four corners of the earth at the same time. So at the end of time Satan will be allowed to do his worst – devise and engineer a program of mass annihilation against all the Christians worldwide.

Revelation 20:7-10 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Satan and his masses of ungodly followers will try to annihilate the Christians in the last hours of human existence. This is the next prophetic event that we should be looking for in our time. They engulfed the New Covenant people to destroy them through some means unknown to us but God steps in and removes his people and destroys the earth with fire just like Peter said he would do.
[SUP]
10 [/SUP] And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The “Beast” was destroyed in 410AD with the destruction of Rome by Alaric the Visigoth. This also ended the existence of the False Prophet which was a religious element within the government of the Beast (Government of Rome) that persecuted the Christians. It was called the Concilia. The beast and false prophet in this case were not individuals but symbols of the corrupt government of Rome and those who persecuted the Church throughout the centuries. It is the end of time and humanity and there is no more reason for Satan to exist in the world so he is cast into his final abode – forever.

 

[Rudimental]

I'd say he is out on bail

I was going to say that! Is certainly one way of relating to it.

Some might call it a subpoena.

But that only includes people from Brooklyn and Chicago.

Seriously though, we know that he is not bound by no means for he walks around like a roaring lion 1 Peter 5:8. But also because one only has to take a look at the world or watch the news on TV for one day to know that he is in the world. John in John 14:30 has called him the prince of this world.

Also as you wanted some scripture, do remember Job 1:7 where God asked Satan Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

He is not bound by no means in that he can move around, unlike God, he can only be in one place at one time. But he is a little restricted still, he still has to seek permission from God for somethings which I believe Job 1:7 is for to let us know that.