The Absolutism of Verb Tense

JesusistheChrist · Aug 23, 2015

Yes, "cowered away". Would you like me to explain the verb tense of that to you?

dcon said:

So, in your opinion, I'm a swine? Good to know, but God greatly disagrees. By way of reminder, you are the one who conveniently ignores the tense of "believes" and that's to further your own error.

Anyhow, I've spent enough time on this thread for one day. I'll check out the rest of the forum for a bit and then more than likely return to this conversation tomorrow.

dcontroversal · Aug 23, 2015

JesusistheChrist said:

I never called you a swine pal, but stated clearly that I will not throw pearls out before someone who will trample it under foot...so your choice of words belies your own conscience.....and as far as ignoring the verb tense of believes....keep dreaming....!

JesusistheChrist · Aug 23, 2015

dcontroversal said:

No, my choice of words simply means that I recognize that you were implying that I'm a swine in that Jesus said that it is swine who will trample pearls under their feet. Anyhow, what you think of me is of no real importance to me. I know what God thinks of me and that will suffice. Yes, you do willfully ignore the verb tense of "believes". If you didn't, then we wouldn't even be having this type of discussion.

dcontroversal · Aug 23, 2015

JesusistheChrist said:

Make no mistake...if I wanted to imply you are a swine I would have used the word......so....like I said before...keep believing you can lose salvation and must maintain it yourself.....I will make my stand on Jesus and the numerous places that teach and point to eternal security in Christ.....good luck when you stand before God! I am more than willing to wait to find out who is right and who is wrong!

tourist · Aug 23, 2015

There's a lot of tense verbage in this thread.

JesusistheChrist · Aug 23, 2015

tourist said:

"Absolutely".

dcontroversal · Aug 23, 2015

tourist said:

There is always a little heat when you have two opposing theologies! Especially when one uses the words COWERED AWAY.....!

posthuman · Aug 23, 2015

JesusistheChrist said:

the cost is more than these petty things like friends, family, comfort, wealth, our earthly life.
you're imagining i'm saying things that i'm not saying, and missing what i'm telling you.

JesusistheChrist said:

no, i didn't.
i said "count the cost -- you cannot pay it."
i said the cost is beyond your means to pay.

JesusistheChrist said:

then you ought to understand that the price of your redemption has been paid for you!
and considering that, you should also consider any 'cost' on your end to be comparatively nothing.
& you should know that suffering for His sake is not the cost of your redemption. we could never suffer enough.
and you should know what i'm talking about when i say the cost is beyond your means, instead of pretending i'm saying "there's no cost to discipleship."

JesusistheChrist said:

i did not say that. i said you cannot pay the cost. you can't afford it.
that's kinda exactly the opposite of what you're accusing me of saying.

JesusistheChrist said:

all by your lonesome? you don't need a savior? really.
perhaps i ought just chalk that up to you being ticked off by your imagination & not thinking clearly.

JesusistheChrist said:

let me get this straight -- you're saying you can keep yourself wise. you can depend on yourself for wisdom.
you're professing yourself to be wise?
maybe this verse doesn't mean what you think it means, man.

JesusistheChrist said:

let me show you something.

God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things — and the things that are not — to nullify the things that are,so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God — that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”
(1 Corinthians 1:28-31)

Christ is our wisdom.
Christ is how we have become 'salt' -- if we lose Christ, our wisdom, how can we become salty again?
if we boast in our own saltiness - what? is that being lowly? but i'm telling you that i cannot trust my own wisdom, and i cannot trust my own faithfulness, and i cannot pay the cost of my own salvation, so i must put all my trust in the mercy of God -- being lowly -- and you are despising me for it.
i can't boast in being able to keep my saltiness.
somehow you think you can?? you got Jesus wrapped around your finger? in your box?
i can only boast in that the Lord is able to keep me.

part of "the cost" is staring at us right here.
you've got to give up everything for Him.
everything.
including yourself.
including your strength of will. including being sure of your ability to obey. including all vanity.
everything. including thinking that you can hold up part of 'the bargain.'
not just your friends. not just your family. not just your possessions. not just your will. not just your mind. not just your body. your very self, man. and even when you have paid your entire soul, you will not have paid the price of your redemption.
we have nothing to boast of but that God shows us mercy.

you've heard the good news though, yes? not only does He show us mercy, if we would receive it instead of being arrogant or unbelieving -- He shows us everlasting mercy, and grace beyond our imagination!

you might say this utterly undeserved gift He offers us is "unbelievable"
do you believe it? can you? or you still think whipping out your metaphorical checkbook is going to do anything but make the maître d' laugh?
we are paupers, street-urchins, dining with the emperor. it's a wonderful thought of you to try to pay, and it's really lovely, honestly. it's the proper response too -- but keep some perspective, and lay your gifts at His feet - don't embarrass yourself by grabbing for the bill.
it's paid in full ♥
& it's honestly disrespectful to the King to imply otherwise.

JesusistheChrist · Aug 24, 2015

You know what? You've basically misunderstood, whether intentionally or unintentionally, everything that I've said and, quite frankly, when I read your posts, I wouldn't even know that you were talking about me if you weren't addressing your responses to me by my username. IOW, you're so off the mark as to who I am and as to what I actually believe that it's as if you're talking to your imaginary friend and not to me. I simply don't have the time or the need to explain to you who and what I really am. I've given you people Jesus' words. Do with them what you'd like to do with them. As far as I'm concerned, our conversation is over...not that you were ever actually conversing with the real me.

posthuman · Aug 24, 2015

that's pretty rich!

you accuse me of saying there's "no cost" to discipleship when i say the cost of our redemption is beyond human means to pay, and when i point that out, you decide i'm the one with reading comprehension & transference problems.

i guess i'm the "swine" now eh?

JesusistheChrist · Aug 24, 2015

posthuman said:

You've got some serious problems, friend. Go back and reread your post #86 and you'll see what I'm talking about. There, I was speaking of the cost of following Jesus and you started rambling on about the price that Jesus paid to redeem me. They're not the same thing, but, in your convoluted mind, I suppose that they are. Argue with yourself. Quite frankly, you've become a bore.

Good night.

posthuman · Aug 24, 2015

Who can say,
"I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin"?
(Proverbs 20:9)

posthuman · Aug 24, 2015

JesusistheChrist said:

have a look at post #83.

you said that text in Luke you were obliquely referring to was about salvation.
now you're admitting the 'cost' of discipleship & the cost of redemption are different things?

then i guess the Spirit's been able to use me to get through to you a little bit after all

hooray!

posthuman · Aug 24, 2015

JesusistheChrist said:

99 problems and salvation's not one!

my Lord got that covered, yo

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, because it is written: Everyone who is hung on a tree is cursed.
The purpose was that the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles by Christ Jesus, so that we could receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Brothers, I’m using a human illustration. No one sets aside or makes additions to even a human covenant that has been ratified.
(Galatians 3:13-15)

"redeemed" -- ἐξηγόρασεν -- aorist indicitive active -- manumission. paid in full!!

i noticed that Philippian jailer did a couple of things:

heard the good word
believed
confessed his belief
showed mercy to others
rejoiced

sure sounds good to me

Jah is great, rich in love and slow to anger - so good to us! His mercy endures forever!

JesusistheChrist · Aug 24, 2015

posthuman said:

I never said that they weren't different things, but they're closely intertwined. IOW, those whom Jesus saves are to become His disciples and there's a cost involved in the same which people are supposed to sit down and count FIRST. Jesus' disciples can turn away from Him, so that makes discipleship be related to salvation.

Anyhow, you can have the last word and pat yourself on the back for how whatever "spirit" you're being led by has used you to save my soul or whatever you're imagining. Quite frankly, the only thing that you've actually accomplished today is to make me worry about you, but, like I said, you can have the last word and believe whatever you'd like to the contrary.

Dan58 · Aug 24, 2015

dcontroversal said:

What if Paul had said; 'I have not fought a good fight, I have not finished the race, and I have not kept the faith'? If you had everlasting life when you first believed, will you still have everlasting life when you fail to believe in the future? The action is ongoing, you must believe in the past, present, and future. For me; "whosoever believeth in him should not perish" was not all inclusive of "whomsoever stops believing". The promise is secure, but contingent on a believer believing until the end.

posthuman · Aug 24, 2015

we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us
(2 Corinthians 1:9-10)

past, present, future.
hath delivered, doth deliver, will deliver.
not trusting in ourselves, but in God our Deliverer.

posthuman · Aug 24, 2015

past -

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God
(Ephesians 2:8)

past & present -

For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
(Hebrews 10:14)

present -

you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
(1 Peter 2:5)

present & future -

In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.
(Ephesians 2:22)

future -

And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
(Romans 8:23)

the One who was, who is and is yet to come is the One who acted to save us, who acts to sanctify us, and who will act again to fully transform us.
all of this is things that He did, does and will do - not of ourselves, but the gift and work of God.

dcontroversal · Aug 24, 2015

posthuman said:

There are more than a few that like to think they are!

dcontroversal · Aug 24, 2015

Dan58 said:

Ignore aorist tense verbs and perfect tense verbs and that FACT that God inspired them...The problem with your view is the statement (for me)!<----It is not about your private interpretation, nor your pal...but rather the INSPIRED VERB TENSES and the RULES of GRAMMAR that are applicable!

The Absolutism of Verb Tense

JesusistheChrist

Guest

Banned

JesusistheChrist

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

JesusistheChrist

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

JesusistheChrist

Guest

Senior Member

JesusistheChrist

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

JesusistheChrist

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned