Is the Devil bound right now...?

[Bowman]

How many times must I say that I agree with you to the point you make. However, there is no point or purpose that is accomplished ONLY by Christ's death. You have not shown any. If Christ only died, Satan cannot be bound. Christ would become the victim of death and Satan would be the victor and we all would still be condemned to death.

So, we are right back to your details as to just what death only would have accomplished.

Can we say hypocrisy?

If there was no point in Jesus' death, then why state that you agree with me?

 

[Bowman]

Never fails. When someone does not have any substance to contribute they attack the opponent.

More hypocrisy...

Your a joke. This is the is ramifications of your view which you seem unable to explain.

Since all you can do is attempt to circumvent I can only assume you have no explaination. One wonders why you even bothered to ask the question in the first place.

I don't know about Catholic misinterpreting scripture, but in this case you have yet to show the meaning of your own question. Why is that?
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/118907-devil-bound-right-now-14.html#post2239874

 

[Cassian]

Can we say hypocrisy?

If there was no point in Jesus' death, then why state that you agree with me?

this is why you are missing what I have been saying. I agree that Christ through His own death, bound Satan, and freed those held captive. But none of that has any meaning UNLESS Christ arises from the dead. Satan cannot be bound by death, but through death. He is bound because Christ defeated death, his power.

You want to argue, I presume in saying that death accomplishes something but are unable to show any accomplishment.
In order to save us Christ needed to die as a human being with our mortal nature. Only dying is meaningless. It is life that defeats death. Death does not defeat death. Death would have devoured Christ as it would have any human being, except that Christ arose from the dead and give life to the world. He defeated death with life.

That same argument can be used with the idea of the Cross. Christ died on the Cross. So what. Many people have died upon a Cross. The point is that Christ needed to die in order to rise from the dead thus defeating Satan, ending the curse upon the world and mankind.

Whatever it was that you wanted to show with your OP you have not begun to give an explanation. All you have accomplished is to translate a verse and by isolating it from all other scripture you make the verse null and void. Which is quite obvious since you have no explanation.

 

[Cassian]

More hypocrisy...

Where is the hypocrisy? I gave you the scriptural/theological meaning of your OP question. I have given it several times already. You have not refuted it, nor have you explained your view.

All I get is negative assertions, no evidence. A lot of nonsubstantive comments with false innuendos.

 

[Bowman]

this is why you are missing what I have been saying. I agree that Christ through His own death, bound Satan, and freed those held captive. But none of that has any meaning UNLESS Christ arises from the dead. Satan cannot be bound by death, but through death. He is bound because Christ defeated death, his power.

You want to argue, I presume in saying that death accomplishes something but are unable to show any accomplishment.
In order to save us Christ needed to die as a human being with our mortal nature. Only dying is meaningless. It is life that defeats death. Death does not defeat death. Death would have devoured Christ as it would have any human being, except that Christ arose from the dead and give life to the world. He defeated death with life.

That same argument can be used with the idea of the Cross. Christ died on the Cross. So what. Many people have died upon a Cross. The point is that Christ needed to die in order to rise from the dead thus defeating Satan, ending the curse upon the world and mankind.

Whatever it was that you wanted to show with your OP you have not begun to give an explanation. All you have accomplished is to translate a verse and by isolating it from all other scripture you make the verse null and void. Which is quite obvious since you have no explanation.

Satan is defeated at The Second Resurrection....NOT The First Resurrection.

 

[Bowman]

Where is the hypocrisy? I gave you the scriptural/theological meaning of your OP question. I have given it several times already. You have not refuted it, nor have you explained your view.

All I get is negative assertions, no evidence. A lot of nonsubstantive comments with false innuendos.

First...try reading what you are replying to...

 

[Cassian]

Satan is defeated at The Second Resurrection....NOT The First Resurrection.

cite scripture that states Satan is defeated at the Second Resurrection.

When will Christ arise from the dead in your view? Just before the second resurrection? Is Satan bound by death as long as Christ remains in Hades?

 

[Bowman]

cite scripture that states Satan is defeated at the Second Resurrection.

And death and hell were thrown into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death. (Rev 20.14)

When will Christ arise from the dead in your view? Just before the second resurrection?

He already has...

Is Satan bound by death as long as Christ remains in Hades?

Christ is NOT in hades.

Perish that lame catholic worldview.

You keep parroting that same comment, over, and over, and over, and over.......but NEVER once do you defend how the people you slavishly adhere to, managed to twist scripture into that meaning.

 

[Cassian]

And death and hell were thrown into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death. (Rev 20.14) [/quote]

It is not even addressing the topic of Satan being bound. Now you have switched to the destruction of Satan. Read your lone text so far, Heb 2:14-15. It is not referring to the future coming of Christ, but the one that has already taken place.

He already has...

Then Satan is bound and death defeated with His first coming, not His Second Coming.

Christ is NOT in hades.

yet you want His death to bind Satan and now you have death defeated at His Second Coming. He is not coming again, Incarnate, to die and defeat death at His Second Coming, He did that with His first coming.

Perish that lame catholic worldview.

you seem to know more than I about the Catholics. I do not know what their view is on this topic.

You keep parroting that same comment, over, and over, and over, and over.......but NEVER once do you defend how the people you slavishly adhere to, managed to twist scripture into that meaning.

The comment is based on what I understand your view to be, not anything I believe.

You stated above that Christ defeated death at His Second Coming. Scripture says Christ defeated death at his first coming. So I must presume, since you don't explain your view, that you would believe that Christ arose from the dead just before His Second Coming in order to defeat death which is accomplished in scripture by His resurrection. Just as fire will not put out a fire, but water, so death cannot defeat death, but life.

You say twist scripture which is another assertion without any evidence again. What scriptures is being twisted?

For all of your vaunted translation of Heb 2:14-15 you have no understanding of what it actually means. You have isolated the text just so you can show that Chris's death enabled Christ to bind Satan but you still have not shown any benefit of this for our salvation.

You still have not explained your view. You have not refuted what scripture has always taught. All you have done is make unsubstantiated claims and assertions. If you would fully explain your view, then one would not need to use deduction and conjecture to figure it out.


By the way, I slavishly adhere to the Gospel once given by the Holy Spirit and preserved by the Holy Spirit and do not depend on my personal interpretation to determine what the scriptures might mean.

 

[Bowman]

It is not even addressing the topic of Satan being bound.

Its discussing the defeat of Satan.

Now you have switched to the destruction of Satan.

No.

Defeat.

 

[Bowman]

Bowman: 'You just wrote a 300+ word reply without even so much as detailing a single solitary scripture.'

Cassian: 'Can't you see by now that I don't know any scripture? All I can do is provide you a name and number, and give lip-service to that name and number.'

 

[Cassian]

Its discussing the defeat of Satan.

Whether one uses the word "destroy" or "defeat" the fact that Satan is thrown into the fire at Christ's second coming has no bearing on the salvation of man. It is simply the punishment for Satan.

Your text of Heb 2;14-15 tells you Christ came to destroy-defeat the power of Satan. Satan's power was death. Man was condemned to permanent death, the world would be dissolved by death. Christ defeated death, overcame death, the curse upon mankind. That is actually the salvation that Christ gave as a gift to the world. A gift that was necessary if man was ever going to be united with God now and surely for eternity.


Can you explain how the destruction, defeat of Satan would benefit man if that is accomplished at the Second Coming?
I must assume you just have an assertion and do not have a view of what it might mean. You have had ample time to give your view, but alas, nothing.

 

[Bowman]

Your text of Heb 2;14-15 tells you Christ came to destroy-defeat the power of Satan.

No.

Heb 2 informs the reader that Jesus bound Satan at the Cross.

Satan is not defeated until The Second Resurrection.

 

[Cassian]

Bowman: 'You just wrote a 300+ word reply without even so much as detailing a single solitary scripture.'

Cassian: 'Can't you see by now that I don't know any scripture? All I can do is provide you a name and number, and give lip-service to that name and number.'

That is your problem not mine. Maybe you can go back and record all the scripture I cited from the beginning, along with the explanation of each. My comments have not changed from the same source of texts. I have not added new ones.

I think that this is just another ploy to evade the obvious, you have no explanation of your view. You made an assertion with no evidence.

 

[gkroo]

In Heb. 2:14, the word 'destroy:'
καταργέω
katargeō
kat-arg-eh'-o
From G2596 and G691; to be (render) entirely idle (useless), literally or figuratively: - abolish, cease, cumber, deliver, destroy, do away, become (make) of no (none, without) effect, fail, loose, bring (come) to nought, put away (down), vanish away, make void.
That means Satan is made of no effect, idle.
****
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

In 1Co 15:54, Death is completely eliminated.

In Rev. 20, it starts with an angel having the key to the 'bottomless pit.' The 'bottomless pit' is not Death or Hades.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The 'little season' may have something to do with 'time, times, and half a time.' But, for a thousand years the Devil is bound and then he is loosed. The question is, 'Is the Devil bound now or is this the little season that he is loosed?'

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

That all happens before the second resurrection.

 

[gkroo]

Wait, there is no second resurrection! There is a second death and those who take part in the first resurrection, the second death has no power over them. Those who proclaim Jesus Christ as Lord are the ones who have taken part in the first resurrection! The resurrection of Christ. Christ cannot be crucified again.

 

[Cassian]

No.

Heb 2 informs the reader that Jesus bound Satan at the Cross.

Satan is not defeated until The Second Resurrection.

So in your view Christ actually has not come as yet, even though you have Him dying on the Cross. That dying bound Satan, but you cannot explain the benefit that Christ bound Satan for man.


My Bible says Christ came to defeat Satan the first time He came, not the second. My Bible is quite clear on that. It NEVER states Christ came to redeem man and the world at His Second Coming. His atonement occurred at His first advent, not the second.

Here are some texts again that shows that Christ defeated death and gave life to the world. Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:12-22, Heb 2:9, Heb 2:14-17, II Cor 5:18-19, II Tim 1:10, All will be raised because Christ arose from the dead, defeating death, I Cor 15:52-54, Rev 20:13-14, Acts 24:15, John 6:39.

And just so you can do a good Bible study since you claim you don't know scripture. The result of Adam's sin was death, physical death, mortality, Gen 3:19, Rom 5:12 reiterates that condemnation and the following verses explains just how Christ overcame death, the power of Satan.

I'll help you along with how this all ties in with the binding of Satan. I had not realized you were so inept at following a discussion.
Where does scripture speak of the binding of Satan?
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]When Christ was crucified His death represented the death that would be the end of man if not redeemed. He decended into Hell. When he rose from the dead, Christ had bound Satan and took from Him his power over death. Christ also took with Him all those who were held captive by death. This is the taking of the spoils of the strong man, Satan. Mat 12:29, Mk 3:22-27, John 12:30-32, Eph 4:8-9, Col 2:13-15, Rev 20: 1-3. The devil is bound in that he lost his power over death and Hades.

From the time of Christ's first coming Christ's Church is formed where the Gospel is preached. Man is summoned to the Kingdom of God and the devil is barred from preventing their entrance into it. The abyss refers to the hearts of those who have rejected God. That is the evil one sees in the world today. Satan is working mightly to overcome but knows that he will fail.

Now this is the fourth time that I have explalned the scriptural view of the binding of Satan and what it means.

You have not refuted any of this with scripture as yet. Furthermore, you have not explalned your view as yet. All you have stated is[/FONT] that Christ bound Satan by His death. But what does that mean respective of your view? In your view what was the purpose of binding Satan? How does your binding of Satan effect anything for man and his salvation?

This is probably the 7th or 8th opportunity you have had to explain your view. If you have none, just say so.

 

[gkroo]

Heb 2 informs the reader that Jesus bound Satan at the Cross.

Satan is not defeated until The Second Resurrection.

There is no second resurrection.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

[Cassian]

There is no second resurrection.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

To understand death and resurrection one must know that there are two deaths and two resurrections that are aligned with each other. When scripture is speaking of the first resurrection that is the spiritual resurrection of every believer. This occurs at baptism. Rom 6 is the baptism chapter. The reference in Rev 20:5 is addressing believers. Since they have experienced the spiritual resurrection they are not subject to the second death which is a spiritual death.

The first death is man's condemnation to death through Adam. We will all die once to rid ourselves of this body of sin so that we might be raised, the second, physical resurrection at the end of time. Rev 20-21 is a summation of the time between the advents of Christ. The first 3-4 verses deals with Christ coming, defeating death, binding Satan. The church is being called out and then the end, the resurrection of the dead, the judgement and then the New Heaven and the New Earth. The end is the consummation of His Resurrection of reconciling the world back to God.

 

[Bowman]

That is your problem not mine. Maybe you can go back and record all the scripture I cited from the beginning, along with the explanation of each. My comments have not changed from the same source of texts. I have not added new ones.

I think that this is just another ploy to evade the obvious, you have no explanation of your view. You made an assertion with no evidence.

Providing a name and a number and then giving your own unreferenced commentary without so much as posting the actual verse so that it can speak for itself.....is...just plain ludicrous.

That is why you will forever be asking me what it means, as I provide referenced exegesis for the scripture that I post...