Rich and Famous Pastors

[KennethC]

He answered the Rich Man's question as it pertained to him. And the Rich Young Ruler asked: "What must I do to gain Eternal Life?" Not, "What is required for us to receive Eternal Life." (Besides, the guy lied to Jesus when he answered that he had kept every commandment since childhood.) I had an idol that he put before (higher than) God.

Well actually the rich man did not lie because he did not consider money/possessions as an idol until the Lord pointed it out to him that his faith was actually in his possessions and not in Him.

943 square feet, without the one-car garage.

Yeah that is a small house and I know of a few areas that overly price small houses like that around here as well.
North Kansas City does this but I can go about 10 miles down the road to Independence and get a house twice the size of that for the same price and the area is just as good to live in as the other.

 

[Willie-T]

Well actually the rich man did not lie because he did not consider money/possessions as an idol until the Lord pointed it out to him that his faith was actually in his possessions and not in Him.







Yeah that is a small house and I know of a few areas that overly price small houses like that around here as well.
North Kansas City does this but I can go about 10 miles down the road to Independence and get a house twice the size of that for the same price and the area is just as good to live in as the other.

My brother lives on South Overton in Independence. His house is much larger than mine, and cost $60 some thousand. But even I wouldn't live in that piece of crap, nor live in such a crummy neighborhood.

 

[pottersclay]

I think they most heart breaking words I've heard from a person is "oh your one of them" I have a hard time recovering from that. All the praying and let's do this Lord motivation goes to a all time low in just 5 words. That's where the anger comes from, the wolves have come and dined and left already.

 

[AceMichaels]

I think they most heart breaking words I've heard from a person is "oh your one of them" I have a hard time recovering from that. All the praying and let's do this Lord motivation goes to a all time low in just 5 words. That's where the anger comes from, the wolves have come and dined and left already.

I understand totally!

 

[Patnubay]

I think every comment and opinion cited is correct to the situation of the person making the comment. One's opinion is normally arrived at based on one's education, situation, upbringing, etc. I'll stick to Bible verses though and my understanding of the verses.


I know the Bible says:

a. "No one can serve two masters.......You can not serve God and money"
b. “Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one’s life does not consist in the
abundance of his possessions.”
c. "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils"
d. “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in
heaven; and come, follow Me.”
e. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of
God".

And also:

a. "The rich and the poor meet together; the Lord is the maker of them all."
b. "Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed."
c. "The Lord makes poor and makes rich; he brings low and he exalts."
e. "Everyone also to whom God has given wealth and possessions and power to enjoy them, and to
accept his lot and rejoice in his toil—this is the gift of God."
d. "Now Abram was very rich in livestock, in silver, and in gold."


I understand the rich people mentioned in the Bible like Abraham, Joseph ( Jacob ), Joseph of Arimathaea and David got rich on their own and never got their wealth from ministry or using God's name or His Words.

One has to remember, those who gave their tithe, bought the book or paid for preaching conference ticket were looking for God not Microsoft software or any human-made inspiration.

And I believe, these "preachers" expressly or not, CLAIMED to be guided by the Holy Spirit when they share their thoughts. I say so because "revelation of the Word of God" only comes from the Holy Spirit" and all these Rich and Famous preachers call themselves " Preachers of the Word of God"


Just saying...

 

[Jenizona]

Well you have made a wrongful statement there as 95% of my money has always gone to others rather it be family, friends, or others in need.

If I had to break it down in percentages after I pay normal bills to live it the rest would be divided as such: 50% goes to my kids, 25% to my spouse, 10% to others in need, 10% to family members who need help, and then 5% for myself.

I have never seen anything like this before... this does not strike me as a "real" budget. I am utterly perplexed by this.

Sorry, was this a "how I would like it to be" sort of thing? Just making sure I understand.

 

[ladylynn]

Your trying to compare an $80 pair of shoes to a $10 million dollar home ???

That is just a ridiculous comparison, plus once again there is nothing wrong with wanted to live a nice lifestyle but a $80,000 to $100,000 dollar home is good enough. There is absolutely no need to live in a house worth 10 million dollars.

You are focusing to much on the carnal world and not on the ways of God.

God does not respect a man who has lavish possessions that they have attained, for He our Lord even says "do not build up possessions on earth."...........Matthew 6:19-21

Most to almost all of the passages about being rich in the new testament are warnings to those that are not blessings !!!


Once again it is not wrong to have money, it becomes wrong depending on how they use it !!!

Yes, I'm comparing buying an $80 pair of shoes with a 10 million dollar home. It's not the 'things' it's the attitude people have about those things. Things are to be used. How another Christian uses the things he has is not something you or I have a right to judge. Why? Because we do not know what is in their heart and we have not walked in their shoes.

My shoe example is not lacking in the fact that some Christians would judge me for buying such an expensive shoe. Just like some Christians judge Joel O. for buying such an expensive house. Judging is a universal problem., it transcends the classes of people rich or poor. We all do it and it is not pleasing to God.

You say "Once again it is not wrong to have money, it becomes wrong depending on how they use it"
By whose definition?? Some say buying expensive shoes is a sin., some say buying an expensive house is. Go figure!

 

[Jimbone]

You didn't misunderstand me at all. It would take too long to write you a book so that you would see (It took me a lot of study to learn it, too), so just go on believing what you want. Perhaps one day you, too, will discover what I have.

I don’t think I will ever come to the conclusion you do man. My understanding of this WHOLE THING hinges on the fact that Jesus took my punishment on that cross, not the punishment from mere men, which just about every prophet of God did, but the punishment I rightly deserve for rebelling against a Holy God. God is love on a incomprehensible level no doubt, but because that He can NOT abide sin at all right? He is PERFECTLY just right? So how can He be perfectly just and not punish the guilty? The only answer is Jesus Christ. Jesus was the ONLY one that even could have taken the wrath of God that us humans rightly deserve for our transgressions. This is gospel 101 man, not according to these “TV feel good” preachers, but that’s the problem with them, they tickle ears to fill seats. If you don’t thing Jesus took the full wrath of God on that cross to pay for our sins then I’m very afraid you have a false gospel. It makes no sense that “the price” paid was just what us humans could dish out to Him, how can our actions count for God’s “punishment” against our sins? There were many that had faced horrible deaths in God’s name before and after Christ, sorry it didn’t take the God man Jesus to handle that. It DID take the God man Jesus to suffer Gods righteous wrath and get up 3 days later to atone for the worlds sin, He was the ONLY one that could do it. What does this mean if God didn’t satisfy His Justice on that cross for ALL that believe on His Son? What does this verse mean if God didn’t pour out His wrath on His only Son?

Isaiah 53:10-11 10 But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. 11 As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities.

 

[Jimbone]

Yes, I'm comparing buying an $80 pair of shoes with a 10 million dollar home. It's not the 'things' it's the attitude people have about those things. Things are to be used. How another Christian uses the things he has is not something you or I have a right to judge. Why? Because we do not know what is in their heart and we have not walked in their shoes.

My shoe example is not lacking in the fact that some Christians would judge me for buying such an expensive shoe. Just like some Christians judge Joel O. for buying such an expensive house. Judging is a universal problem., it transcends the classes of people rich or poor. We all do it and it is not pleasing to God.

You say "Once again it is not wrong to have money, it becomes wrong depending on how they use it"
By whose definition?? Some say buying expensive shoes is a sin., some say buying an expensive house is. Go figure!

Ok fair enough, but answer this for me. Do you think good ol' Joel's actions in spending money this way leads more people to Christ or turns more people off to Jesus completely? In the face of all the starving people in this world, is that really the most Christ like example of how to deal with money? I think I'd literally have to either remove my thinking mind, or be completely ignorant to Christ message to think his example was in any way what Christ taught, but people love money so someone comes along and says "God wants you to have all the "better things" in life, so people flock to it, not because of there love for God, but for the love of a God they make up. Reread the gospels and show me where Jesus told us we'd have our "best life now", please.

 

[Willie-T]

I don’t think I will ever come to the conclusion you do man. My understanding of this WHOLE THING hinges on the fact that Jesus took my punishment on that cross, not the punishment from mere men, which just about every prophet of God did, but the punishment I rightly deserve for rebelling against a Holy God. God is love on a incomprehensible level no doubt, but because that He can NOT abide sin at all right? He is PERFECTLY just right? So how can He be perfectly just and not punish the guilty? The only answer is Jesus Christ. Jesus was the ONLY one that even could have taken the wrath of God that us humans rightly deserve for our transgressions. This is gospel 101 man, not according to these “TV feel good” preachers, but that’s the problem with them, they tickle ears to fill seats. If you don’t thing Jesus took the full wrath of God on that cross to pay for our sins then I’m very afraid you have a false gospel. It makes no sense that “the price” paid was just what us humans could dish out to Him, how can our actions count for God’s “punishment” against our sins? There were many that had faced horrible deaths in God’s name before and after Christ, sorry it didn’t take the God man Jesus to handle that. It DID take the God man Jesus to suffer Gods righteous wrath and get up 3 days later to atone for the worlds sin, He was the ONLY one that could do it. What does this mean if God didn’t satisfy His Justice on that cross for ALL that believe on His Son? What does this verse mean if God didn’t pour out His wrath on His only Son?

Isaiah 53:10-11 10 But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. 11 As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities.

You can prove the fallacy of this to yourself.

What should our "punishment" be? The punishment that Jesus took for us? You are probably going to say something along the lines of "Eternal Punishment", or " to burn forever in a lake of fire." Most people do. I did.

But where is Jesus right now? He's not in Hell (Did he ever bust Hell wide open as punishment?) He's not in a Lake of Fire. (Did He ever even touch a Lake of Fire?) Do we have one word in the Bible of Him enduring torment during those three days? And how does three days compare with "Eternity", anyway? It doesn't.

But, more than any of this, what was the punishment declared by God to Adam if he sinned? No, I'm not asking you what we have theologically MADE it to be. What was it, ACTUALLY? As much as we want to add something to it, it was simple physical death... a cessation of living our lives on the planet.

And, you are smart, so I don't have to go into all the times the translators threw in "Hell" when a couple other things were really meant in the Scriptures.

Like I said, this cannot be shown to you in a few short internet posts, so we'll just have to accept believing the way each of us does.

 

[Jimbone]

You can prove the fallacy of this to yourself.

What should our "punishment" be? The punishment that Jesus took for us? You are probably going to say something along the lines of "Eternal Punishment", or " to burn forever in a lake of fire." Most people do. I did.

But where is Jesus right now? He's not in Hell (Did he ever bust Hell wide open as punishment?) He's not in a Lake of Fire. (Did He ever even touch a Lake of Fire?) Do we have one word in the Bible of Him enduring torment during those three days? And how does three days compare with "Eternity", anyway? It doesn't.

But, more than any of this, what was the punishment declared by God to Adam if he sinned? No, I'm not asking you what we have theologically MADE it to be. What was it, ACTUALLY? As much as we want to add something to it, it was simple physical death... a cessation of living our lives on the planet.

And, you are smart, so I don't have to go into all the times the translators threw in "Hell" when a couple other things were really meant in the Scriptures.

Like I said, this cannot be shown to you in a few short internet posts, so we'll just have to accept believing the way each of us does.

Fair enough, and thanks for taking the time to answer me and share your conclusion. I can see how you're approaching it now, and can see your point to be honest, don't fully agree with your conclusion, but at least see the trail that led you there. Thanks again for even taking the time to talk about it in a rational and calm manner, and being able to simply disagree in a respectful way. I truly hope you took my post the same way because I was in no way trying to attack or "win" or anything like that. I do honestly see you as a brother in Christ and do actually agree with a lot of what you say on here for the most part, so am grateful that even when there are disagreements you handle it this way. Thanks man, and may God bless you and your family with His peace, love, and mercy.

 

[Willie-T]

Fair enough, and thanks for taking the time to answer me and share your conclusion. I can see how you're approaching it now, and can see your point to be honest, don't fully agree with your conclusion, but at least see the trail that led you there. Thanks again for even taking the time to talk about it in a rational and calm manner, and being able to simply disagree in a respectful way. I truly hope you took my post the same way because I was in no way trying to attack or "win" or anything like that. I do honestly see you as a brother in Christ and do actually agree with a lot of what you say on here for the most part, so am grateful that even when there are disagreements you handle it this way. Thanks man, and may God bless you and your family with His peace, love, and mercy.

Don't take me wrong. None of this came easy to me. I was more "religious" than probably 90% of the people here. I literally THREW a couple of books against the wall, actually condemning the authors to Hell. All this came through picking those books back up, (One really got mangled, and I had to get the glue out.) and doing what the writers suggested... comparing their words to the Bible, rather than to my religious understanding.

It really makes no difference if you are content with how you see things, but for years, there have just been too many little things that didn't fit, and it finally reached a point after about 50 years that I couldn't just close my eyes to it. I had to know what was written, NOT what was interpreted.

So, if someone is content, then I suggest they never read a word other than the books recommended by their leadership. Shoot, The Vineyard (my own denomination) doesn't go along with any of the things I am beginning to see. And I can live with that.

 

[shotgunner]

Ok fair enough, but answer this for me. Do you think good ol' Joel's actions in spending money this way leads more people to Christ or turns more people off to Jesus completely? In the face of all the starving people in this world, is that really the most Christ like example of how to deal with money? I think I'd literally have to either remove my thinking mind, or be completely ignorant to Christ message to think his example was in any way what Christ taught, but people love money so someone comes along and says "God wants you to have all the "better things" in life, so people flock to it, not because of there love for God, but for the love of a God they make up. Reread the gospels and show me where Jesus told us we'd have our "best life now", please.

Mark 10:29-30King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

They do however have to receive persecutions, which is evident by many responses here.

 

[Jimbone]

Mark 10:29-30King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

They do however have to receive persecutions, which is evident by many responses here.

True enough, unless you have been reading the whole thing, because right before that was when Christ said Mark 10:25 :25"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." So you can't rip it out of context, and when I see and hear what Joel preaches it does not line up with him being willing to leave all that behind to follow God, and the verse you are using is what God will bless His Obedient followers with because they will know how to use those blessings to further the Kingdom. Sorry man but NOBODY on this earth, with as many people that are starving in this world, needs a 10 million dollar house, and I feel very sure Jesus would agree with me, especially with the "gospel" that this man preaches. He would be another hypocritical Pharisee in Jesus eye's as far as I understand what Christ taught anyway. You also can't build doctrine on one verse ripped out of context either. Sorry if you can't see that brother, I honestly think that Joel, while a good motivational speaker, NEVER even talks about the gospel at all, ever. I could be wrong and am willing to see anytime he has ever preached the gospel of Jesus Christ. I am also very sure he is crushed by all this persecution he faces from us calling him a wolf in sheep's clothing while he kicks back in the lap of luxury, I'm sure it makes his cushy life so very miserable, give me a break.

 

[KennethC]

My brother lives on South Overton in Independence. His house is much larger than mine, and cost $60 some thousand. But even I wouldn't live in that piece of crap, nor live in such a crummy neighborhood.

Well if you know about Independence, Missouri then you know there are some excellent areas to live in as not all parts of Independence are crummy.

The neighborhoods in Independence off 23 closer to 291 hwy and off of Lees Summit road are a lot better areas to live in, and even back in there are houses for sell less then $100,000.

I grew up on both sides of Independence including the Fairmount district, and know where to live and not to live there.

 

[KennethC]

I think every comment and opinion cited is correct to the situation of the person making the comment. One's opinion is normally arrived at based on one's education, situation, upbringing, etc. I'll stick to Bible verses though and my understanding of the verses.


I know the Bible says:

a. "No one can serve two masters.......You can not serve God and money"
b. “Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one’s life does not consist in the
abundance of his possessions.”
c. "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils"
d. “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in
heaven; and come, follow Me.”
e. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of
God".

And also:

a. "The rich and the poor meet together; the Lord is the maker of them all."
b. "Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed."
c. "The Lord makes poor and makes rich; he brings low and he exalts."
e. "Everyone also to whom God has given wealth and possessions and power to enjoy them, and to
accept his lot and rejoice in his toil—this is the gift of God."
d. "Now Abram was very rich in livestock, in silver, and in gold."


I understand the rich people mentioned in the Bible like Abraham, Joseph ( Jacob ), Joseph of Arimathaea and David got rich on their own and never got their wealth from ministry or using God's name or His Words.

One has to remember, those who gave their tithe, bought the book or paid for preaching conference ticket were looking for God not Microsoft software or any human-made inspiration.

And I believe, these "preachers" expressly or not, CLAIMED to be guided by the Holy Spirit when they share their thoughts. I say so because "revelation of the Word of God" only comes from the Holy Spirit" and all these Rich and Famous preachers call themselves " Preachers of the Word of God"


Just saying...

I just also wanted to make sure because I agree with what you have said, but the point I wanted to make is that the bible when it mentions rich it is not always referring to financial wealth. Some times it just simply means having an abundance of !!!

 

[KennethC]

I have never seen anything like this before... this does not strike me as a "real" budget. I am utterly perplexed by this.

Sorry, was this a "how I would like it to be" sort of thing? Just making sure I understand.

No that is how my finances are really divided.

Notice how I said I pay my normal bills to live first, and then what is left over after that is divided in that way.
Most goes to my two boys and little girl, another goes to my spouse, and what is left goes to family and others who are in need and a small percentage goes to my self.

Yes, I'm comparing buying an $80 pair of shoes with a 10 million dollar home. It's not the 'things' it's the attitude people have about those things. Things are to be used. How another Christian uses the things he has is not something you or I have a right to judge. Why? Because we do not know what is in their heart and we have not walked in their shoes.

My shoe example is not lacking in the fact that some Christians would judge me for buying such an expensive shoe. Just like some Christians judge Joel O. for buying such an expensive house. Judging is a universal problem., it transcends the classes of people rich or poor. We all do it and it is not pleasing to God.

You say "Once again it is not wrong to have money, it becomes wrong depending on how they use it"
By whose definition?? Some say buying expensive shoes is a sin., some say buying an expensive house is. Go figure!

By who's definition ???

By the Word of God it says building up on personal possessions and treasure on earth is wrong, for we are called to edifying and esteem others. God loves a cheerful giver, He shows selfishness and doing things for only self gain (greed) is sinful natures.

You say again we can not judge which is correct, but calling one out for how they are wrongfully living in lavishness while allowing others to suffer is not judging.

We are told in the bible we have every right to point out how others are walking improperly in the faith or teaching falsely.

Then we are to show them by His word the proper way to walk, and I will ask again how many people do you know who are rich if they were told to sell off all they had and give it to the poor would do it ???

Plus I don't see or hear to many homeless people being allowed to come in there and stay in there houses, which is also stated in the bible that we are to do. I would say a 10 million dollar home has plenty of room for a number of homeless people.

Send some homeless people their way to these rich pastors and see if they welcome them in or send them away !!!

 

[shotgunner]

True enough, unless you have been reading the whole thing, because right before that was when Christ said Mark 10:25 :25"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." So you can't rip it out of context, and when I see and hear what Joel preaches it does not line up with him being willing to leave all that behind to follow God, and the verse you are using is what God will bless His Obedient followers with because they will know how to use those blessings to further the Kingdom. Sorry man but NOBODY on this earth, with as many people that are starving in this world, needs a 10 million dollar house, and I feel very sure Jesus would agree with me, especially with the "gospel" that this man preaches. He would be another hypocritical Pharisee in Jesus eye's as far as I understand what Christ taught anyway. You also can't build doctrine on one verse ripped out of context either. Sorry if you can't see that brother, I honestly think that Joel, while a good motivational speaker, NEVER even talks about the gospel at all, ever. I could be wrong and am willing to see anytime he has ever preached the gospel of Jesus Christ. I am also very sure he is crushed by all this persecution he faces from us calling him a wolf in sheep's clothing while he kicks back in the lap of luxury, I'm sure it makes his cushy life so very miserable, give me a break.

I'm not ripping it out of context. The verse that says it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to go to heaven is more out of context. Let's look at what Jesus actually said.

Go back and read verse 17-30. You will see that Jesus isn't against having money. Jesus makes it very clear that he is talking about trusting in money.

The problem is that you can't tell if he is trusting in money just by the size of his house. I know plenty of people just getting by,living in very small houses that trust in money. Actually it's hard not to when you live in that kind of poverty. Your money becomes the source of all you have and your supply.

The best way not to be money minded is to have so much money that you don't even have to think or worry about it.

 

[oldthennew]

hub and I have learned that the best way NOT to be MONEY-MINDED,
is to give our hearts to our Saviour, after this, He will guide and direct
in all of our daily endeavors.......

this speaks of such a special Love that is truly beyond our human minds -
may we obey and over-come, because Christ dwells within-us,
let us be in 100% partnership with our Saviour........

 

[Patnubay]

Yes, I'm comparing buying an $80 pair of shoes with a 10 million dollar home. It's not the 'things' it's the attitude people have about those things. Things are to be used. How another Christian uses the things he has is not something you or I have a right to judge. Why? Because we do not know what is in their heart and we have not walked in their shoes.

My shoe example is not lacking in the fact that some Christians would judge me for buying such an expensive shoe. Just like some Christians judge Joel O. for buying such an expensive house. Judging is a universal problem., it transcends the classes of people rich or poor. We all do it and it is not pleasing to God.

You say "Once again it is not wrong to have money, it becomes wrong depending on how they use it"
By whose definition?? Some say buying expensive shoes is a sin., some say buying an expensive house is. Go figure!

I may not agree but the point is very well presented and a true real world scenario.