Render unto Cesar.........

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K

kaylagrl

Guest
We're familiar with that incident and its implications. Having served on a jury, as I was reading this morning this thought crossed my mind. If you are being questioned as a potential juror for a capital offense, the prosecutors might ask "Would you be willing to assign the death penalty in the event of a guilty verdict?"
I have wavered on this, first believing in a death penalty, then thinking a life sentence with no chance of parole would be sufficient. My reasoning is this: A death sentence would keep a person from heaven, therefore eliminating his chances of eternal salvation. Consequently that would ultimately be an eternal judgement, and only God should make that.
My understanding has become clearer on that and I will detail it another time.
What do you think? Would you give a man a death penalty? Does that sentence have a place in our society?


I posted this in another forum thread. Both OT and NT support capitol punishment....


Excerpts are from the Apologetics Press,its too long to post it all so I will try and break it up in parts.

Very early in human history, God decreed that murderers were to forfeit their own lives: “Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he the man” (Genesis 9:6).Capital punishment was written into God’s will for the Jewish nation in the Old Testament. The death penalty was a viable form of punishment for at least sixteen separate offenses. Some people have misunderstood one of the Ten Commandments which says, “You shall not kill” (Exodus 20:13). They have assumed that the law forbade taking human life under any circumstances. But God required the death penalty for some sixteen crimes. Therefore, the commandment would have been better translated, “You shall not murder.” In other words, the command was a prohibition against an individual taking the law into his own hands and exercising personal vengeance. But God wanted the execution of law breakers to be carried out by duly constituted legal authorities.

Moving to the New Testament, which reveals God’s will this side of the cross, the matter of capital punishment is treated virtually the same. The New Testament clearly teaches that capital punishment is God’s will for human civilization. Consider, for example, Romans 13:1-4.
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
This passage clearly affirms that the state—civil government—has the God-ordained responsibility to keep law and order, and to protect its citizens against evildoers. The word “sword” in this passage refers to capital punishment. God wants duly constituted civil authority to invoke the death penalty upon citizens who commit crimes worthy of death.
For about the last thirty years, Americans have actually witnessed a breakdown on the part of judicial and law enforcement system. In most cases, the government has failed to “bear the sword.” Instead, the prison system has been overrun with incorrigible criminals. Premature parole and early release has become commonplace in order to make room for the increasing number of lawbreakers.


The apostle Paul, himself, articulated the correct attitude when he stood before Porcius Festus and defended his actions by stating, “If I am an offender, or have committed anything worthy of death, I do not object to dying” (Acts 25:11). Paul was acknowledging that the state properly possesses the power of life and death in the administration of civil justice.
Peter held the same position as that of Paul. He enjoined obedience to the government that has been sent by God “for the punishment of evildoers” (1 Peter 2:14; cf. Titus 3:1). Jesus implied the propriety of capital punishment when He told the Parable of the Pounds. Those who rebelled against the king were to be brought and executed in his presence (Luke 19:27). Compare that parable with the one He told about the wicked husbandmen in Luke 20:15-16 in which He indicated that the owner of the vineyard would return and destroy the husbandmen.

Those who oppose capital punishment raise a variety of objections to its legitimacy. For example, someone might raise the question: “Did not Jesus teach that we should turn the other cheek?” Yes, He did, in Matthew 5:39. But in that context, He was impressing upon the Jews their need not to engage in personal vendettas. The same point is stressed in Romans 12:14-21. Paul said, “Repay no one evil for evil” and “do not avenge yourselves.” In other words, Christians are not to take the law into their own hands and engage in vengeful retaliation. God insists that vengeance belongs to HimNotice, however, that Romans 13 picks right up where Romans 12 leaves off and shows how God takes vengeance. He employs civil government as the instrumentality for imposing the death penalty. So, individual citizens are not to engage in vigilante tactics. God wants the legal authorities to punish criminals, and thereby protect the rest of society..

An objection that has been raised in an effort to challenge the propriety of capital punishment is the insistence by some that the death penalty serves no useful purpose—especially when it comes to deterring other criminals from their course of action. Opponents insist, “capital punishment is not a deterrent to crime.” This kind of humanistic, uninformed thinking has held sway for some 30+ years. It might be believable if it were not for the inspired Word of God informing to the contrary.

Even if capital punishment did not serve as a deterrent, it still would serve at least one other worthwhile purpose: the elimination from society of those elements that persist in destructive behavior. The Bible teaches that some people can be hardened into a sinful, wicked condition. They have become so cold, cruel, and mean that even the threat of death does not phase them. Paul referred to those whose consciences had been “seared with a hot iron” (1 Timothy 4:2). Some people are so hardened that they are described as “past feeling” and completely given over to wickedness (Ephesians 4:19). God invoked the death penalty upon an entire generation because their wickedness was “great in the earth” and “every imagination of the thoughts of [their] heart was only evil continually” (Genesis 6:5).


So the human heart and mind can become so alienated from right, good, and truth that a person can be unreachable, incorrigible, and irretrievable. The death penalty would spare law-abiding citizens any further perpetration of death and suffering by those who engage in such repetitive actions. How horrible and senseless it is that so many Americans have had to suffer terribly at the hands of criminals who already have been found guilty of previous crimes, but who were permitted to go free and repeat their criminal behavior!
So even if capital punishment was not a deterrent, it is still a necessary option in society. It holds in check the growth and spread of hardened criminals. A careful study is warranted of the expression “so you shall put away the evil from your midst” (Deuteronomy 13:5; 17:7; 19:19; 21:21; 22:21; 1 Corinthians 5:13).
But the Bible clearly teaches that the application of penal punishment, including the death penalty, is, in fact, a deterrent. For example, God wanted the death penalty imposed upon any individual, including one’s relative, who attempted secretly to entice others into idolatry. Such a person was to be stoned to death in the presence of the entire nation with this resulting effect: “So all Israel shall hear and fear, and not again do such wickedness as this among you” (Deuteronomy 13:11).


Paul emphasized that elders in the church who sinned were to be rebuked publicly “that others also may fear” (1 Timothy 5:20). Ananias and Sapphira, a Christian couple in the early church, were divinely executed in Acts 5, and in the very next verse Luke wrote: “So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things” (Acts 5:11). These passages prove that a direct link exists between punishment and execution on the one hand, and the caution that it instills in others on the other hand.
The Bible teaches the corollary of this principle as well. Where there is inadequate, insufficient and delayed punishment, crime and violence increase. Notice Ecclesiastes 8:11—“Because the sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.” This very phenomenon is occurring even now in America.
The court system is clogged and backed up to the point that many cases do not come to trial for literally years. Criminals who have been shown to be guilty of multiple murders and other heinous crimes are given light sentences, while those who deserve far less are given exorbitant sentences. A mockery of the justice system has resulted.


If the Bible is to be believed, capital punishment is, indeed, a deterrent to criminal behavior. The elimination of hardened criminals is necessary if societies are to survive. The liberal, humanistic values that have held sway in America for the last 40 years are taking their toll, and getting back to God’s view of things is the only hope if the nation is to survive.

A fourth quibble that someone might raise is that capital punishment appears to be a rather extreme step to take since it is as cruel, barbaric, and violent as the action committed by the criminal himself. Is it not the case that capital punishment is resorting to the same kind of behavior as the criminal? May capital punishment be viewed as a vindictive retaliation? The biblical response to this question is seen in the oft’-repeated phrases: “his blood be upon him” (Leviticus 20:9,13,27; Deuteronomy 19:10; Ezekiel 18:13; 33:5) and “his blood be upon his own head” (Joshua 2:19; 2 Samuel 1:16; Ezekiel 33:4; Acts 18:6).
Those who carry out the death sentence are, in reality, neutral third parties. They are merely carrying out the will of God in dispensing justice. The criminal is simply receiving what he brought upon himself—his “just desserts.” The expression “his blood be upon him” indicates that God assigns responsibility for the execution to the one being executed. It’s like we tell small children: “If you put your hand in the fire, you’re going to get burned.” There are consequences to our actions. If we do not want to be executed, we should not commit any act that merits death. If we do commit such an act, we have earned the death penalty, and we deserve to get what we have earned. The one who metes out the punishment is not to be blamed or considered responsible for the execution of the guilty.

Rather than oppose those who promote capital punishment, painting them as insensitive ogres or uncaring, callous, uncivilized barbarians, effort would be better spent focusing upon the barbaric behavior of the criminals who rape, plunder, and pillage. It is theirbehavior that should be kept in mind. Tears and compassion ought to center on the innocent victims and their families. Lethal injection of a wicked evildoer hardly can match the violent, inhuman suffering and death experienced by the innocent victims of crime. They continue to suffer, while the perpetrator carries on for many years, many trials, and many appeals before justice is served—if it ever is. The God of the Bible is incensed and outraged at such circumstances. The time has come to start listening to Him as He speaks through His inspired Word.


 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
No, more like more baloney from you. Again, why wasn't King David put to death? Your answer would be...?
...because David was the KING...ie., THE GOVERNMENT.... he killed many people admistrating social justice and wasn't SINNING, David WRONGLY had Uriah killed <sinning all over the place>.... and GOD DID DEAL WITH THAT rather HARSHLY.
 
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JesusistheChrist

Guest
Gotchya... not liking the allusion to not knowing which spirit I have but what ev's.
My point is that Jesus didn't sanction us to destroy His enemies or our own enemies. He came to seek and to save that which is lost and we ought to be about seeking to do the same until He returns. Will He meet out judgment at His second coming? Yes, He will. Vengeance belongs unto Him and not unto us:

"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:19-21)

Have you noticed that the opening verses of Romans chapter 13 have been thrown around a few times on this thread and that nobody has quoted the verses which immediately precede the same from Romans chapter 12? We're not to avenge ourselves as Christians, but rather we're to give place to wrath because vengeance belongs unto the Lord and not unto us. What is it about "overcoming evil WITH GOOD" that some people here don't/won't understand?

BarlyGurl said:
Stephen was executed for the sake of the gospel... While all FORGIVENESS for the sake of Christ is going on.... was social Justice still in operation? DID government cease? No and NO. So again... making the assertion that administering SOCIAL JUSTICE for ORDER in society including the use of capital punishment is against GOD is just not a boat I am willing to paddle in and calling it HATE of souls for agreeing with capital punishment IS just not true. Christ gave himself up and the very method which took his life the administration of social justice <capital punishment> was he falsely accused YES, were the two criminals with him falsely accused? NO, did one repent, YES!!! GLORY TO GOD!!!
Some people come to Christ by gentle teaching true... others come by circumstances best described as having a HOOK IN THEIR NOSE and I am very willing that that be so... I am okay with that...makes a hook look GOOD!!!
Don't you see the irony in what you just posted? What was responsible for Stephen's stoning if not the wrong application of "social justice"? The people stoned him as one who was speaking against Moses and the like when, in fact, he was actually testifying of the One Whom Moses foretold of. IOW, Stephen was MURDERED or he was a VICTIM of "capital punishment" FOR A CRIME OF WHICH HE WASN'T EVEN GUILTY!...and he still prayed that God wouldn't lay this sin to the charge of his MURDERERS. Thankfully, Stephen was saved, but what of those who have been executed wrongfully who may not have been saved? Is that "social justice"? Since when has "society" been "just", btw? I must have slept through that.
 
Aug 21, 2015
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My point is that Jesus didn't sanction us to destroy His enemies or our own enemies. He came to seek and to save that which is lost and we ought to be about seeking to do the same until He returns. Will He meet out judgment at His second coming? Yes, He will. Vengeance belongs unto Him and not unto us:

"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:19-21)

Have you noticed that the opening verses of Romans chapter 13 have been thrown around a few times on this thread and that nobody has quoted the verses which immediately precede the same from Romans chapter 12? We're not to avenge ourselves as Christians, but rather we're to give place to wrath because vengeance belongs unto the Lord and not unto us. What is it about "overcoming evil WITH GOOD" that some people here don't/won't understand?

Don't you see the irony in what you just posted? What was responsible for Stephen's stoning if not the wrong application of "social justice"? The people stoned him as one who was speaking against Moses and the like when, in fact, he was actually testifying of the One Whom Moses foretold of. IOW, Stephen was MURDERED or he was a VICTIM of "capital punishment" FOR A CRIME OF WHICH HE WASN'T EVEN GUILTY!...and he still prayed that God wouldn't lay this sin to the charge of his MURDERERS. Thankfully, Stephen was saved, but what of those who have been executed wrongfully who may not have been saved? Is that "social justice"? Since when has "society" been "just", btw? I must have slept through that.
When they start throwing words like liberal around this has moved into the political arena and conservatives are just as hard headed as liberals.
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
I'm sorry but this the first time i have heard this. God instituted capital punishment to bring about repentance?

I don't mind telling you... foolish contorted interpretations do not impress me. If you want to converse... do so... if you want to toss out heckling one-liners... Go away.
 
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JesusistheChrist

Guest
...because David was the KING...ie., THE GOVERNMENT.... he killed many people admistrating social justice and wasn't SINNING, David WRONGLY had Uriah killed <sinning all over the place>.... and GOD DID DEAL WITH THAT rather HARSHLY.
Are you saying that David wasn't killed because he was the king? God had multiple kings of Israel killed throughout their history. David wasn't killed because he repented and God granted him mercy. Maybe it's just me, but I keep on thinking about the following:

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Matthew 23:23)

Jesus had some harsh pronunciations for those who had omitted the weightier matters of the law LIKE MERCY. Let's not be guilty of the same:

"So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment." (James 2:12-13)
 
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JesusistheChrist

Guest
When they start throwing words like liberal around this has moved into the political arena and conservatives are just as hard headed as liberals.
I'm the furthest thing from a "liberal" imaginable, so I understand that it's just diversionary tactics to avoid addressing the real issues.
 
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KennethC

Guest
When have I said I would not forgive a murderer??? WE are discussing SOCIAL JUSTICE and CAPITAL PUNISHMENT not personal offenses. I absolutely CANNOT fathom how it is you refute OSAS doctrine, vigilantly uphold REPENTANCE as REQUIRED for salvation but will not consider capital punishment for social crime as a "VENUE" instituted by God to bring repentance forth.... BOGGLING!
What does refuting OSAS got to do with capital punishment ???

Seems like you are trying to dodge and maneuver around answering the questions or facing the truth that is trying to be give to you.

The fact that David, Moses, and Paul turned from those ways and repented is why they did not face the death penalty under the law. They were redeemed by their faith in God and the Lord, so if God lets those off of capital punishment by the law for a sin that requires death then why can you not let a person off that punishment.

You say you would forgive a murderer but in the same breath say they should still be put to death, that is not true forgiveness.

I do not consider capital punishment because the Lord Jesus Christ gave us a different set of standards to live by in the new covenant. The Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic, and Davidic covenants are not in effect for new covenant Gentile believers.

We are under a new covenant with the main three standards of Love, Mercy, and Forgiveness !!!
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
Don't you see the irony in what you just posted? What was responsible for Stephen's stoning if not the wrong application of "social justice"? The people stoned him as one who was speaking against Moses and the like when, in fact, he was actually testifying of the One Whom Moses foretold of. IOW, Stephen was MURDERED or he was a VICTIM of "capital punishment" FOR A CRIME OF WHICH HE WASN'T EVEN GUILTY!...and he still prayed that God wouldn't lay this sin to the charge of his MURDERERS. Thankfully, Stephen was saved, but what of those who have been executed wrongfully who may not have been saved? Is that "social justice"? Since when has "society" been "just", btw? I must have slept through that.
First... THANK YOU for conducting a conversation...
1) I do happen to think MOB RULE and stoning can EASILY become a murderous form of justice.
2) I do not think criminal investigation, trial, hearing, evidence and JURY RULE, and capital punishment is murderous... I don't.
3) YES I do think some people are wrongly convicted.... happens ALL DAY LONG.... for crimes and even in "judging" others here on CC... am I willing to THROW out capital punishment because SOMEONE could be wrongly executed... UH NO!!! because I am firm that GOD expects up to perform GOVERNING AUTHORITY DUTIES and HE can intervene in the SPECIAL "oops" cases himself... cuz he CAN and DOES intervene.

I WOULD like to continue... but I have to log off now... so It will have to continue another time.
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BarlyGurl

Guest
Are you saying that David wasn't killed because he was the king? God had multiple kings of Israel killed throughout their history. David wasn't killed because he repented and God granted him mercy. Maybe it's just me, but I keep on thinking about the following:

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Matthew 23:23)

Jesus had some harsh pronunciations for those who had omitted the weightier matters of the law LIKE MERCY. Let's not be guilty of the same:

"So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment." (James 2:12-13)
I think I DID INFER david's repentance... Ya know where GOD dealt harshly (sent the prophet, convicted his heart, let the infant get sick and die) I certainly wasn't ignoring IT.
 
Aug 21, 2015
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I don't mind telling you... foolish contorted interpretations do not impress me. If you want to converse... do so... if you want to toss out heckling one-liners... Go away.
that was a serious question. Sorry for stating my opinion, apparantly only you can do that
 
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JesusistheChrist

Guest
First... THANK YOU for conducting a conversation...
1) I do happen to think MOB RULE and stoning can EASILY become a murderous form of justice.
2) I do not think criminal investigation, trial, hearing, evidence and JURY RULE, and capital punishment is murderous... I don't.
3) YES I do think some people are wrongly convicted.... happens ALL DAY LONG.... for crimes and even in "judging" others here on CC... am I willing to THROW out capital punishment because SOMEONE could be wrongly executed... UH NO!!! because I am firm that GOD expects up to perform GOVERNING AUTHORITY DUTIES and HE can intervene in the SPECIAL "oops" cases himself... cuz he CAN and DOES intervene.

I WOULD like to continue... but I have to log off now... so It will have to continue another time.
3
You're welcome. I'm going to log off for a bit myself. Again, I do believe that the government can rightly execute judgment at times as God's appointed "revengers", but I'm not the government. I'm just not into taking the lives of others and I could never do the same or take part in the same myself. I highly doubt that I come off this way online, but I'm actually a very sensitive and loving individual in person. You wouldn't want to be sitting next to me in any sort of tear-jerking situation...I can tell you that much. Anyhow, by way of reminder, I work around Veterans of the Armed Forces of the United States of America and I've been doing the same for the past 14 years. I've personally spoken to THOUSANDS of Veterans who have either taken the lives of others or watched as their comrades died before them. These people, with the exceptions of the "Kill 'Em All And Let God Sort 'Em Out" crowd, are TORMENTED PSYCHOLOGICALLY. Why? Because we weren't meant to go around killing each other, that's why. Believe me, I understand the Biblical distinctions between "killing" and "murder", but, even still, I hope that I never take another person's life accidentally. God knows that I have no intention of ever doing the same intentionally and that includes pronouncing the death sentence upon somebody else as a juror.
 
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I will say this and be done since I don't know how to converse. My opinion (and it hasn't changed) is that the death penalty is wrong. If one innocent is executed it is wrong. This is my belief and I have a right to it. You have your beliefs and are passionate. More power to ya!
 
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Galahad

Guest
We are commanded in the new covenant to show LOVE, MERCY, and FORGIVENESS to all people, and we are commanded to minister to those who are in prison.

Where is love, mercy, and forgiveness in putting a person to death, and do you seek death first before giving the person the chance to be ministered to ???

We are not bound under the written ordinances of the law, nor are we called to follow the old letter of the law.
We are called to walk in the same love, mercy, and forgiveness that God shown to us through our Lord Jesus, are we still put to physical death for breaking any of the 10 Commandments ???

No, so why should we hold others to face physical death for their sins if the Lord took that punishment away for ours ???

So Ken, are you for solitary confinement? Life in prison? If you are going to apply forgiveness and mercy and so on as you have here, you have not applied it properly.

If those virtues are the determining factor for your opposition toward the DP, then apply them to all cases. Where's the grace and mercy and forgiveness in putting someone in prison?

Here:
No death penalty: Must show mercy, grace, love, forgiveness.
Yes, life in prison: Don't need to show mercy grace, love, forgiveness.

If you were consistent, you would be opposed to putting anyone in prison.

Did God forgive you? If so, you were free, completely free. God did not require you to pay any penalty for your sin from which you were released.

Now where is the forgiveness and mercy and grace in putting someone in prison?
Or do you apply those virtues only to criminals who commit their life to Christ?

Genesis 9:6. People are still created in the image of God.
 
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KennethC

Guest
So Ken, are you for solitary confinement? Life in prison? If you are going to apply forgiveness and mercy and so on as you have here, you have not applied it properly.

If those virtues are the determining factor for your opposition toward the DP, then apply them to all cases. Where's the grace and mercy and forgiveness in putting someone in prison?

Here:
No death penalty: Must show mercy, grace, love, forgiveness.
Yes, life in prison: Don't need to show mercy grace, love, forgiveness.

If you were consistent, you would be opposed to putting anyone in prison.

Did God forgive you? If so, you were free, completely free. God did not require you to pay any penalty for your sin from which you were released.

Now where is the forgiveness and mercy and grace in putting someone in prison?
Or do you apply those virtues only to criminals who commit their life to Christ?

Genesis 9:6. People are still created in the image of God.
Where do you get putting a person in prison for life is not under mercy and forgiveness ???

The ideal of showing love, mercy, and forgiveness is to relieve them of the curse of the law as the Lord has done for us.
Under the Mosaic law for breaking any of the commandments and some of the laws was punishable by death, Jesus took that curse on Himself for us at His crucifixion.

Love and mercy requires protection for others as well, it can not be just one sided.

If we let them out knowing there might be a chance for them to offend again then that is not love and mercy for others.

Love, mercy, and forgiveness is to be shown to all people not just victims, and not just offenders, but both equally !!!

Now can a person earn trust over time and be let out if they show a true change of heart ? Yes I believe they can, but that trust has to be earned again.

To many people defile a persons name and automatically count them as lost and condemned, because lies that society fills peoples heads with. Unless one actually looks into the issue's they are speaking on instead of just taking another's word for it all that will be known is false information.

I have worked for a couple years in prison ministry and looked into certain things so that I could minister to people better.
Like for example on news casts and such how often when speaking of sex offenses do you hear them say they will always re-offend and all of them always have multiple victims? I can tell you by research both of those are false, as I found that sex offenders are the lest likely to re-offend out of all offenses and that 15% of cases are one time offenses.
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
That's liberal dribble.
The greater the punishment...the greater the deterrent unless you have a society of masochists.
Or, at the very least, if you kill a murderer, he/she will never murder again. Guaranteed!
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
Yep, just like my dad. I bet you listen to Rush Limbo too!
If you sound like a liberal, use liberal jargon, and defend yourself like a liberal....

Ummm,exactly why aren't you one? Oops. Sorry. Forgot You are always right, and I must always listen to you.

Actually, I have nothing against liberal. I like the ones who think out their positions. I often agree with them. I do have something against people who knee-jerk without thinking and then expect all others to agree though. So, no need to answer. You just made Iggy.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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King David committed adultery..... by the Law, death sentence
King David committed pre-meditated murder..... by the Law, death sentence.

God set aside His own law to spare David's double death sentence..... and the Law required equal justice.
Why? God is no respecter of persons, even with kings.

Remember the guy on the cross beside Jesus? Pardoned, forgiven, promised paradise..... all under the Law, against the "letter" of the Law. Yet the Father & the Son is justified in throwing out their death sentences under the law.

The law of Christ, the New Covenant is in force now..... The old is done away with, as well as those unwritten laws before the Law.

Hebrews 10:9 (KJV)
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

BTW, has anyone watched the documentaries that have investigated the death sentences taken place on innocent people?

The death sentence isn't justified against the New Covenant, neither is our justice system trustworthy to carry out such a sentence.

The only way I would "tolerate" the death penalty is for mass murderers or mass rapists. Even then, absolute evidence should be provided.
 
Aug 21, 2015
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If you sound like a liberal, use liberal jargon, and defend yourself like a liberal....

Ummm,exactly why aren't you one? Oops. Sorry. Forgot You are always right, and I must always listen to you.

Actually, I have nothing against liberal. I like the ones who think out their positions. I often agree with them. I do have something against people who knee-jerk without thinking and then expect all others to agree though. So, no need to answer. You just made Iggy.
I never expected everyone to agree with me. I just offered my opinion and then get slammed by conservatives and called a liberal. I think you need to rethink who the intolerant ones are.
 
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Galahad

Guest
Where do you get putting a person in prison for life is not under mercy and forgiveness ???

The ideal of showing love, mercy, and forgiveness is to relieve them of the curse of the law as the Lord has done for us.
Under the Mosaic law for breaking any of the commandments and some of the laws was punishable by death, Jesus took that curse on Himself for us at His crucifixion.

Love and mercy requires protection for others as well, it can not be just one sided.

If we let them out knowing there might be a chance for them to offend again then that is not love and mercy for others.

Love, mercy, and forgiveness is to be shown to all people not just victims, and not just offenders, but both equally !!!

Now can a person earn trust over time and be let out if they show a true change of heart ? Yes I believe they can, but that trust has to be earned again.

To many people defile a persons name and automatically count them as lost and condemned, because lies that society fills peoples heads with. Unless one actually looks into the issue's they are speaking on instead of just taking another's word for it all that will be known is false information.

I have worked for a couple years in prison ministry and looked into certain things so that I could minister to people better.
Like for example on news casts and such how often when speaking of sex offenses do you hear them say they will always re-offend and all of them always have multiple victims? I can tell you by research both of those are false, as I found that sex offenders are the lest likely to re-offend out of all offenses and that 15% of cases are one time offenses.
You stated that you are opposed to the DP because of mercy, love, forgiveness.
But when we apply that mercy, love, and forgiveness to life in prison. You sing a different tune.

Ridiculous. Opposed to the death penalty because we are to forgive.

"Love and mercy requires protection for others as well, it can not be just one sided." Where's the forgiveness?
"Mercy can't be just one sided."
"Love can't be just one sided."
But you didn't include forgiveness, why?

Love, mercy, forgiveness, one sided?

Genesis 9:6 The Lord is for the death penalty in that verse. Yes He is. What is the basis of the DP according to the Lord?
Ken, who are we to forgive? When are we to forgive? Does our forgiving someone of murder make null and void the command in Genesis 9:6?
You assume keeping a murder alive on death row is an act of love toward the family of the murdered victim. Where did you come with that assumption?









 
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