A
I think I specified that "party" might have been a bad choice. I simply mean participants.
I think it's the understanding of many Christians that it's NOT the same contract - it has been replaced. As Baptism replaced circumcision. How do you keep a contract that has conditions for God's approval and then incorporate an unconditional love from this same God? It's a contradiction. It's not the same, from my understanding, it has been replaced. And the application/understanding of the Law is not the same. As Paul said, the Law is not sin simply because it convicts/condemns sin. It's not altogether void of purpose - however, it should be balanced because of it's very tendency to incite sin.
I get that's the understanding of many Christians. I'm saying that's a wrong understanding. It IS the same contract. The only difference is who are the ones upholding the contract. Before the two sides were God and Man. Man failed. No other choice but that contract, so God did it again. God and God -- Father and Son. Terms were finalized by blood. Literally.
And God's conditions have never been unconditional. That's a modernism. His condition was Christ on that cross. Heavy-duty, very conditional condition done for love. He is our condition. He brought us before the Father covering that condition like a mantle. God knows what's under the mantle, but the mantle is the condition, so what is under it is accepted by that condition. Like a wife is covered by the mantle of her husband, except in God's case the mantle is perfect too.
I'm not sure where I argued or even implied this, unless you're proposing an idea.
I don't really intend to enter the debate, perse. We are not discussing anything that hasn't been discussed by believing minds far more enlightened than ours - but still confused.
My take right now is that we are partners with God, in designing our life and destiny. But without God, nothing of pure motivation and love can be done, because He IS love. So the best way to improve life is to have God in your life - and I'm not saying which god or which Scriptures, or whatnot, but a higher purpose, particularly of personal nature.
The Law is not love - it is condemnation, because it doesn't praise and it doesn't edify, it only corrects and reveals sin. Plenty of people have read "Thou shalt not murder" and yet go and murder. The Law in and of itself does NOTHING to improve an individual. That's why "return to the Law" concerns some people, esp when you are leaving out of this argument Christ and forgiveness for when one breaks the Law... because they will. And ultimately, the answer many levels against the "watered down Law" is that you are excusing sin. I never knew God to give mankind the authority to judge sin, anyway, not in a manner of salvation requirements or retribution. But man sure loves to take upon himself this role.
We love because HE loved. We draw our feelings and motivations of love from Him. I'm not posing HOW that is done - through Scripture, the Spirit only, both, what religion etc. I am only saying that usually an extreme approach to anything ultimately ends in the opposite extreme pushing back. You end up creating what you pushed hard to squash out... just like the Church, she thrived and with her inspired love and purpose pushed back against hatred and grew. But that's not the same, what we are talking here.
I don't really intend to enter the debate, perse. We are not discussing anything that hasn't been discussed by believing minds far more enlightened than ours - but still confused.
My take right now is that we are partners with God, in designing our life and destiny. But without God, nothing of pure motivation and love can be done, because He IS love. So the best way to improve life is to have God in your life - and I'm not saying which god or which Scriptures, or whatnot, but a higher purpose, particularly of personal nature.
The Law is not love - it is condemnation, because it doesn't praise and it doesn't edify, it only corrects and reveals sin. Plenty of people have read "Thou shalt not murder" and yet go and murder. The Law in and of itself does NOTHING to improve an individual. That's why "return to the Law" concerns some people, esp when you are leaving out of this argument Christ and forgiveness for when one breaks the Law... because they will. And ultimately, the answer many levels against the "watered down Law" is that you are excusing sin. I never knew God to give mankind the authority to judge sin, anyway, not in a manner of salvation requirements or retribution. But man sure loves to take upon himself this role.
We love because HE loved. We draw our feelings and motivations of love from Him. I'm not posing HOW that is done - through Scripture, the Spirit only, both, what religion etc. I am only saying that usually an extreme approach to anything ultimately ends in the opposite extreme pushing back. You end up creating what you pushed hard to squash out... just like the Church, she thrived and with her inspired love and purpose pushed back against hatred and grew. But that's not the same, what we are talking here.
I can now argue for and against some of your new ideas, but, man! That gets convoluted, especially since I've been saying all along the law and the covenant are God. Not that he looks like a letter in a commandment or he is a commandment, or he is a bunch of words in a contract, but it sums up God's being -- his personality, who he is, what he wants, what he expects from others, and where we miss even being sort of, close to, kind of, maybe, like him. He IS that. He is the OT and the Law. Clearly, clearly we are not that.
Here's one for you. If the covenant tells us who God is, if it is his law, then isn't it also love, since God is love? I really do see perfect love in it. To do that would be to be perfect love. We fall short. (Understatement of the year! lol)
Only one single way to get there -- Jesus in us working through us. (Not so much a partnership, since one side has everything to offer and the other side has squat in exchange.)