God did away with some of His own sayings

[just-me]

Do what as an example? Worship? Follow Jesus? Again, I need you to explain clearly what you mean by "how Paul worshiped" from an earlier post. Remind me of your question and better yet, why don't you just make the point instead of dragging this on? lol

Also, please don't ignore the next question I posed. Repeated: Must we obey all principles of the Law, or is it beneficial to do so, but we are not required to do so (such as not eating pork)?

That question is also answered according to Paul's example for us to follow. Read Acts 24:14 and tell me what you believe concerning Paul's example.

I will give you the answer about pigs after that.

 

[just-me]

I call it born again, a flash flood...Romans 5:5 KJV[5] And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
..no Rabbis necessary.

Romans 5:1-5 is my favorite.

1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: [SUP]2 [/SUP]By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

1 Corinthians 2:16

 

[BarlyGurl]

I already had the schoolmaster lead me to Christ if I am born again, so why do I need to keep hashing over the same commands I

1. Already agreed with (since I repented)
2. Already know

Well I quess you must have been a good jew before you got born again... I, however, (along with many others) had not a SPECK of religious training when I got born again. I needed some instructions so that I could understand the difference between my "fleshly" desires and my "spirit" desires. The real beauty is... NO THING God commands is burdensome for those who walk by the spirit. IF you think something is a burden... better check your "spirit".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well I quess you must have been a good jew before you got born again...

Actually I was a horrific Gentile. How does what I said even lead you to think I was a good jew. that makes no sense.

I, however, (along with many others) had not a SPECK of religious training when I got born again. I needed some instructions so that I could understand the difference between my "fleshly" desires and my "spirit" desires. The real beauty is... NO THING God commands is burdensome for those who walk by the spirit. IF you think something is a burden... better check your "spirit".

so Paul lied in romans 1?

And by the way, Nice twist. I never said we should not read or go over the law. In fact i have over an dover said the opposite. I have always said we should not live by it, (even you should know that is two different things)

 

[BenFTW]

That question is also answered according to Paul's example for us to follow. Read Acts 24:14 and tell me what you believe concerning Paul's example.

I will give you the answer about pigs after that.

I think context is important here...

15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

He is saying he believes all things which are written in the law and by the prophets concerning the resurrection of the dead, both just and unjust. Imagine, the verses go on to say...

21 Except it be for this one voice, that I cried standing among them, Touching the resurrection of the dead I am called in question by you this day.

Context tell us he believes what is written in the law and by the prophets in regards to what he is being questioned on and that is the resurrection of the dead.

So, I still hardly understand your question and also I think the verse is not being looked at in context.

My question again: Must we obey all principles of the Law, or is it beneficial to do so, but we are not required to do so (such as not eating pork)?

 

[gb9]

I just wonder why when some people hear ' SAVED BY GRACE' NOT UNEDER THE LAW ' do they jump to the do what ever you want and still be saved conclusion.. why?? not one person has said that. but, you know someone did say something having ears to hear did they not ?hmmmmmm...............

 

[just-me]

I think context is important here...

15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

He is saying he believes all things which are written in the law and by the prophets concerning the resurrection of the dead, both just and unjust. Imagine, the verses go on to say...

21 Except it be for this one voice, that I cried standing among them, Touching the resurrection of the dead I am called in question by you this day.

Context tell us he believes what is written in the law and by the prophets in regards to what he is being questioned on and that is the resurrection of the dead.

So, I still hardly understand your question and also I think the verse is not being looked at in context.

My question again: Must we obey all principles of the Law, or is it beneficial to do so, but we are not required to do so (such as not eating pork)?

[SUP]14 [/SUP]But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now after many years I came to bring alms to my nation, and offerings.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Whereupon certain Jews from Asia found me purified in the temple, neither with multitude, nor with tumult.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Who ought to have been here before thee, and object, if they had ought against me.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Or else let these same here say, if they have found any evil doing in me, while I stood before the council,

So do you believe as Paul did concerning worshiping by believing (quote) "ALL" (unquote) things written in the law and the prophets then? I do, do you?

Is your answer a definitive yes then?

 

[BenFTW]

[SUP]14 [/SUP]But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now after many years I came to bring alms to my nation, and offerings.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Whereupon certain Jews from Asia found me purified in the temple, neither with multitude, nor with tumult.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Who ought to have been here before thee, and object, if they had ought against me.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Or else let these same here say, if they have found any evil doing in me, while I stood before the council,

So do you believe as Paul did concerning worshiping by believing (quote) "ALL" (unquote) things written in the law and the prophets then? I do, do you?

Is your answer a definitive yes then?

What does it mean to worship by believing all things written in the law and by the prophets? Can you define that? Of course we believe all things written in the Law and by the prophets as its the Word of God and God isn't a liar.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

for some reasons pauls words seem to be ringing, and maybe applicable here.

I am all things to all people. to a Jew I am as a jew (obeying the law) to the gentile I am as a gentile (not bound by the law ie he was free to eat meat etc etc)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What does it mean to worship by believing all things written in the law and by the prophets? Can you define that? Of course we believe all things written in the Law and by the prophets as its the Word of God and God isn't a liar.

Amen, and they wonder why we get so angry, all the false accusations that go on and on and on..

We will never be able to have a decent conversation or come to an understanding of each other. if we keep misrepresenting what the other has sad.

 

[slave]

We cannot maintain anything! We need not maintain Evil this is Satan's claim to fame. Equally so, we cannot maintain Christianity..this is God's domain...thru Jesus Christ.

In our death have we been remade or newly made? Newly not remade! Hence all old things are gone and all new things are here. Point of fact! The Premise to this debate.

And who goes before us in our newly made self? Jesus Christ! So where are we in maintaining anything? "....Hidden in God.". Yet, what you meant to say is the "new me" maintains it. Well again, who is the new me? I am not seen when hidden in God, yet, the new me is uniquely individual. But here's the point: the "new me" has none of the old me in it, no carnality whatsoever. Thus, Christ maintains anything of Himself in our behavior. But do we in our will have to put things forward toward Christ? Is there a response needed by us or is there a response that simply will happen due to what the 'new me' is??

Jesus said, "If you love me YOU WILL obey my commandments. Again the premise being love, given to you by the regeneration. So, is this freedom or grind of service we are extended by God? Freedom right? Then is it freedom to sin or serve is the next question? This is where it get's Merced for some people. The ones not sure of this answer would perhaps say, "Well, of coarse no one wants to sin but we all fall short, so we need not work at our faith thru effort but allow God's grace to bathe us." Yet, if Christ is perfect and has given us His history and resources why would we doubt God in His anointing of Christ in our lives, or His purposes to bring others unto Himself, thru Christ's example in our lives? For if Christ is for us who can be against us right?

God understands we are a work in progress, hence His mercy of forgiveness of confessed sin. But He has never said it is not a thing you need not do: Obey Him. He has said just the opposite. Logically in Christ we need not sin, because God has not changed the 'being of sin at all but eclipsed it with His Son.. Logically in Christ we being Human will stumble along our coarse of finishing ourselves in the hands of God [In the hands of God!] Yet, never will Love lose it's origin of power unless that stumble is not dealt with on the cross and thru confession of our lips derived from a heart of repentance.

The issue here in this thread is whether we need to obey forward. Yes, God's Word is clear we must obey forward. This is our 'wills' power, this is our reaction to love, and our obligation to God. God is wrapped up in every inch of our move forward, hence we are not maintaining it; yet we must lay our will along side God's. My Christ to me therefore is everything to me, He is my new life, and yet, when He shows us His everything, we can't help but be in love with it. He attracts us, His purity we desire. But His purity costs us, the tradeoff is worth it, and if we obey with cost even, we end up becoming it. But Satan wants to distract us from thinking we need to become Christ ourselves in the way we are that narrow purity is too tight a wedge for us to accept in our reasoning, but don't believe it, God has made it possible, and necessary. The riches found in His inheritance are, yet even, to be fully realized but He came by God's anointing to also give us Abundant life here as well.

 

[BarlyGurl]

And by the way, Nice twist. I never said we should not read or go over the law. In fact i have over an dover said the opposite. I have always said we should not live by it, (even you should know that is two different things)

Oh MY!... Are you now complaining that I have somehow said, "YOU SAID SOMETHING YOU DIDN'T SAY???"... WOW, Just W_O_W!!

 

[just-me]

What does it mean to worship by believing all things written in the law and by the prophets? Can you define that? Of course we believe all things written in the Law and by the prophets as its the Word of God and God isn't a liar.

It means a person can understand the original spiritual intention thereof. It means they understand with a spiritual mind instead of a carnal mind. Of course it is a learn process, and we will never know it all until we have a glorified body. 1 Corinthians 13:12

That's what it takes to define, and understand the "pig" thing that you questioned me about. LOL

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:6-7

It's impossible for the carnal mind to accept, understand, and believe "ALL" things written in the law.

Now give me some time and I will endeavor to answer the "pig thing" in spirit and in truth to the best of my capability. To begin, animals of the OT are metaphors for human attributes. Food for thought. (pun intended) LOL

 

[BarlyGurl]

>>>>Actually I was a horrific Gentile. How does what I said even lead you to think I was a good jew. that makes no sense.<<<<

How about you just camp right here and think about your OWN question for a little while??? Might have to re-read the comments a few times until you recognize it MAKES SENSE!

 

[BenFTW]

It means a person can understand the original spiritual intention thereof. It means they understand with a spiritual mind instead of a carnal mind. Of course it is a learn process, and we will never know it all until we have a glorified body. 1 Corinthians 13:12

That's what it takes to define, and understand the "pig" thing that you questioned me about. LOL

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:6-7

It's impossible for the carnal mind to accept, understand, and believe "ALL" things written in the law.

Now give me some time and I will endeavor to answer the "pig thing" in spirit and in truth to the best of my capability. To begin, animals of the OT are metaphors for human attributes. Food for thought. (pun intended) LOL

Your point all along has been to say something we all agree upon and have said clearly we agree with. There are spiritual truths to the OT Law that are beneficial to live by. What you haven't, or what I havent been able to see, is you clearly say if we are required to live by these principles. This is why I asked you my previous question.

Must we obey all principles of the Law, or is it beneficial to do so, but we are not required to do so (such as not eating pork)?

The pork example is just that, an example. I don't need you to fully address the example of pork, but rather must we obey from the Law the commandment to avoid eating it? The issue isn't with whether or not pork is beneficial to your health (it isn't) but whether we must obey this truth and if we don't what are the penalties besides a negative effect to your health?

 

[just-me]

My question again: Must we obey all principles of the Law, or is it beneficial to do so, but we are not required to do so (such as not eating pork)?

The split hooves of pigs are good, but not good enough because of not having a cud as a clean animal has. The split hoof represents direction or motivation such as what is on a clean beast such as a sheep, goats, cows, oxen etc. Because pigs eat garbage along with foliage, they are spiritually consuming what we know as the “doctrine of Balaam.” (Compromising the truth with paganism in short)

Now pigs do not have a cud to properly digest their intake such as a clean animal. Therefore they are likened unto one that cannot comprehend, and totally digest their intake. Concerning ourselves, we are to properly digest the manna from heaven, because all good gifts come from above. This is likened unto a “cud,” milling the truth over and over until we get it right. We are not to ascribe to the way of a pig. Therefore, spiritually we are not to consume those false attributes found in this parable of a pig. This is New covenant truth.

 

[shotgunner]

I already had the schoolmaster lead me to Christ if I am born again, so why do I need to keep hashing over the same commands I

1. Already agreed with (since I repented)
2. Already know

Well I quess you must have been a good jew before you got born again... I, however, (along with many others) had not a SPECK of religious training when I got born again. I needed some instructions so that I could understand the difference between my "fleshly" desires and my "spirit" desires. The real beauty is... NO THING God commands is burdensome for those who walk by the spirit. IF you think something is a burden... better check your "spirit".

In one sentence you are saying that you better check your Spirit but just before that you are saying that you can't trust your Spirit. Do you see any inconsistency there? I do not believe that being born again your new Spirit would have led you into sin.

 

[BenFTW]

The split hooves of pigs are good, but not good enough because of not having a cud as a clean animal has. The split hoof represents direction or motivation such as what is on a clean beast such as a sheep, goats, cows, oxen etc. Because pigs eat garbage along with foliage, they are spiritually consuming what we know as the “doctrine of Balaam.” (Compromising the truth with paganism in short)

Now pigs do not have a cud to properly digest their intake such as a clean animal. Therefore they are likened unto one that cannot comprehend, and totally digest their intake. Concerning ourselves, we are to properly digest the manna from heaven, because all good gifts come from above. This is likened unto a “cud,” milling the truth over and over until we get it right. We are not to ascribe to the way of a pig. Therefore, spiritually we are not to consume those false attributes found in this parable of a pig. This is New covenant truth.

That is all very interesting but doesn't answer the question. I like the analogy of chewing on the truth over and over again, getting it down into our spirit. However, lets answer the question forthright. I see you liked my previous post, maybe it revealed what I was getting at and you now can answer plainly.

 

[just-me]

Your point all along has been to say something we all agree upon and have said clearly we agree with. There are spiritual truths to the OT Law that are beneficial to live by. What you haven't, or what I havent been able to see, is you clearly say if we are required to live by these principles. This is why I asked you my previous question.

Must we obey all principles of the Law, or is it beneficial to do so, but we are not required to do so (such as not eating pork)?

The pork example is just that, an example. I don't need you to fully address the example of pork, but rather must we obey from the Law the commandment to avoid eating it? The issue isn't with whether or not pork is beneficial to your health (it isn't) but whether we must obey this truth and if we don't what are the penalties besides a negative effect to your health?

You have blessed me!

Bottom line. There is nothing that God has spoken that we have the freedom to reject. That's the entire purpose of this thread. What dismays me is that there are professing Christians that have not the capability to see the spiritual truth in ALL of God's spoken word. Their only alternative is to reject what cannot be comprehended. I love them all and yearn for them who cannot. We should have the heart and mind to pursue the truth. That's loving God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength. The law is spiritual and that's the way we are to worship God. Anything less is false in my opinion.

Deuteronomy 6:1-6
1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the Lord thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I did. Paul speaking here................

But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:14

Paul isn't saying that he worships by following the law and the prophets . . . Paul says that he worships the same God as his fathers - "BELIEVING" all things which are written in the law and in the prophets . . . I believe I can say with certainty that we all BELIEVE the things which are written in the law and in the prophets.

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Does this mean that the apostle to us Gentiles is double minded? I think not.

So no . . . Paul is not double minded.