PROPHETS: A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE

presidente · Sep 13, 2015

On prophets ignoring people.

You haven't supported your ideas from the Bible. Saying prophets don't ignore, and giving an example of Isaiah not ignoring doesn't prove anything. No one is saying prophets always ignore everyone.

Look at what Elisha said in II Kings 3.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Elisha said, As the Lord of hosts liveth, before whom I stand, surely, were it not that I regard the presence of Jehoshaphat the king of Judah, I would not look toward thee, nor see thee.

He didn't mind ignoring the king of Israel. And if someone puts you on their ignore list, that doesn't mean they aren't a prophet, or that they are. Whatever the case, it's not a Biblical test.

posthuman · Sep 13, 2015

this is interesting so i went to look at the context and understand what was going on here.

presidente said:

i notice that Elisha out of respect for Jehoshapat, stayed and spoke with him & Joram & the king of Edom, sought the Lord's mind for them, and prophesied what would happen and how they could win the battle.

Joram here (the king of Israel) is Ahab & Jezebel's son, and 'did evil in the eyes of the Lord' (2 Kings 3:1-3) - doing the things that Jeroboam did - worshiping idols (1 Kings 12:28-30).

so when Elisha said this to him

Elisha said to King Joram of Israel, “We have nothing in common. Go to the prophets of your father and your mother!”
(2 Kings 3:13)

he has this attitude because the man worships golden calves and listens to false prophets and completely rejects the instruction of God.

this is not the situation when we ignore others who follow Christ -- unless you can attest that the people on your ignore list are followers of baals and asherahs.

Elisha did not ignore Jehoshaphat, even though he was consorting with two pagan kings, because Jehoshaphat 'followed after the ways of his father David' and removed the idols from the land and did not worship them. (2 Chronicles 17:3-6)
but Jehoshaphat wasn't 'perfect' - and he was rebuked by other prophets of God for consorting with Ahab, Joram's father.

Then Jehu son of Hanani the seer went out to confront him and said to King Jehoshaphat, “Do you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, the Lord’s wrath is on you. However, some good is found in you, for you have removed the Asherah poles from the land and have decided to seek God.”
(2 Chronicles 19:2-3)

so i see that God's man ignored the one who followed other gods, but the one who sought after the Lord, even though he fall, and did wrong, and consorted with idolaters, the Lord spoke to him through prophets, who did not ignore him.

so the question that comes up in my mind from that verse you put, presidente, is this:

are we treating fellow believers as idolaters just because we disagree with them? because we don't like being criticized by them? do we have good reasons to treat them like baal worshipers who completely forsake the Lord?
and even considering that - didn't the Lord send prophets to His own people when they themselves had forsaken Him and followed after other gods? at what point does God - who has chosen us to bear His name - put us on His 'ignore list' ?
He said at one time of Israel that he would not hear their prayers, but would send them into exile because of all their sin. but at the same time, He promised that His anger would only kindle a little while, that the remnant would return, and that He would again turn His face towards them. isn't this true?

How do we reflect that, among our brothers and sisters here?

ember · Sep 13, 2015

ukok102nak said:

you know, this really does not have anything to do with the op

I realize that the op is being stretched along the way, but this is really a shot in the dark here and nothing that I want to discuss and since I am the person who started the op, I don't think it is too much to ask to start a thread if you would like to have a prophet challenge?

and by the way, welcome to CC...

ps...Matthew 7:21 is applicable

ember · Sep 13, 2015

Stephen63;2280842]There's so much being said about what a prophet is supposed to do. What I like to know is where the information is coming from.
It would be easier to say what a prophet didn't do.

Hi Stephen...I actually didn't start the thread for the purpose of discussing what prophets do. It might help if you read the op...or did you read the op?

see, lately a couple of folks here have been telling us all that they are prophets and the rest of us are almost in 100% agreement that they are not, in fact, prophets

one of them, cursed a number of us...myself included...telling me I was going to hell and not heaven because I disagreed he was a prophet...so if you come across any posts that deal with that issue, you might understand why we have called him out

very simply, I am more interested in the warnings in scripture concerning false prophets and teachers and what Jesus and the writers of the NT had to say about that....I am concerned that if someone calls themself a prophet, some believe it is so without even verifying anything, so I started the op

I don't know how much of this thread you may have read and it's getting long now, but the main thrust of some of these self made prophets seems to be that they are above the rest of us and we should take instruction from them and we have no right to judge or correct them because they are prophets and we are not

That's it in a nutshell. I am just very weary of a class of supposed Christian that believe they are somehow indowed with power and the ability to speak for God and we should just be glad and follow.

I think the world is already on fire and the last thing we need are people who are deceived and wish to lead the rest of us down the same path.

Your post seems centered although I do not really have the time right now to really give it credence, but again, the op is not about what prophets do but is actually more about warning those who fail to seek the Lord and who fail to test the spirit behind the so called words etc.

Other than speak in tongues, all the other gifts were there in the OT. They gave words of wisdom, performed miracles, healed people, preached, taught, warned of impending judgement, spoke with authority to kings & religious leaders, & the list goes on & on.

What's surprising is that Jesus had something to say about it..... about all ministries actually, & it has not been listed nor sought out. Note the scripture:
Luke 17:7-10 (NASB) [SUP]7 [/SUP]"Which of you, having a slave plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, 'Come immediately and sit down to eat'? [SUP]8 [/SUP]"But will he not say to him, 'Prepare something for me to eat, and properly clothe yourself and serve me while I eat and drink; and afterward you may eat and drink'? [SUP]9 [/SUP]"He does not thank the slave because he did the things which were commanded, does he? [SUP]10 [/SUP]"So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.'"

Genuine humility should be in the forefront of every ministry. These scriptures should be followed as well:
Romans 14:19 (KJV) Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
[HR][/HR]1 Corinthians 14:12 (KJV) Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
[HR][/HR]1 Corinthians 14:26 (KJV) How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
[HR][/HR]1 Timothy 1:4 (KJV) Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
[HR][/HR]Ephesians 4:11-16 (KJV) [SUP]11 [/SUP]And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; [SUP]12[/SUP]For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: [SUP]13 [/SUP]Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: [SUP]14 [/SUP]That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; [SUP]15 [/SUP]But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: [SUP]16 [/SUP]From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Since every believer has the down payment of the Holy Spirit, we should be at the ready for God to do in us as He pleases. Who knows what the church could do IF we all were led by the Holy Spirit as some claim to do & others say it ended with the Apostles. Either way you choose, many have powerless claims, while many others has an unbiblical excuse to never do it.

I think this old saying is needed: "we need to sweep around our own back door". If this isn't suitable, perhaps this OT scripture will fit instead:
2 Chronicles 7:14 (KJV) If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Sometimes I think a lot of folks (me included) don't know where we really stand with God in these last days. If we did, maybe we would be busy sweeping around our own back door instead of everybody else's.[/QUOTE]

ember · Sep 13, 2015

posthuman said:

this is interesting so i went to look at the context and understand what was going on here.

i notice that Elisha out of respect for Jehoshapat, stayed and spoke with him & Joram & the king of Edom, sought the Lord's mind for them, and prophesied what would happen and how they could win the battle.

Joram here (the king of Israel) is Ahab & Jezebel's son, and 'did evil in the eyes of the Lord' (2 Kings 3:1-3) - doing the things that Jeroboam did - worshiping idols (1 Kings 12:28-30).

so when Elisha said this to him

Elisha said to King Joram of Israel, “We have nothing in common. Go to the prophets of your father and your mother!”
(2 Kings 3:13)

he has this attitude because the man worships golden calves and listens to false prophets and completely rejects the instruction of God.

this is not the situation when we ignore others who follow Christ -- unless you can attest that the people on your ignore list are followers of baals and asherahs.

Elisha did not ignore Jehoshaphat, even though he was consorting with two pagan kings, because Jehoshaphat 'followed after the ways of his father David' and removed the idols from the land and did not worship them. (2 Chronicles 17:3-6)
but Jehoshaphat wasn't 'perfect' - and he was rebuked by other prophets of God for consorting with Ahab, Joram's father.

Then Jehu son of Hanani the seer went out to confront him and said to King Jehoshaphat, “Do you help the wicked and love those who hate the Lord? Because of this, the Lord’s wrath is on you. However, some good is found in you, for you have removed the Asherah poles from the land and have decided to seek God.”
(2 Chronicles 19:2-3)

so i see that God's man ignored the one who followed other gods, but the one who sought after the Lord, even though he fall, and did wrong, and consorted with idolaters, the Lord spoke to him through prophets, who did not ignore him.

so the question that comes up in my mind from that verse you put, presidente, is this:

are we treating fellow believers as idolaters just because we disagree with them? because we don't like being criticized by them? do we have good reasons to treat them like baal worshipers who completely forsake the Lord?
and even considering that - didn't the Lord send prophets to His own people when they themselves had forsaken Him and followed after other gods? at what point does God - who has chosen us to bear His name - put us on His 'ignore list' ?
He said at one time of Israel that he would not hear their prayers, but would send them into exile because of all their sin. but at the same time, He promised that His anger would only kindle a little while, that the remnant would return, and that He would again turn His face towards them. isn't this true?

How do we reflect that, among our brothers and sisters here?

well this is what myself and others have been saying for some time now

why are people acting like Old Testament prophets?

each believer now has the Holy Spirit indwelling them and we do not need to run all over seeking a 'word' from God

posts where curses or name calling have appeared have been reported and I notice that since then, the rhetoric has really been toned down, so perhaps putting people on ignore when you would really like to blast them, is a good thing for a person to do if they are inclined to call names and say nasty things

generally, I don't think people should be put on ignore and finding a story in the OT that seems to make an excuse for bad behavior is just really lame. Lame.

Stephen63 · Sep 13, 2015

ember said:

It seemed to me many didn't know what a prophet was supposed to do..... if that's the case, they wouldn't know whether these "people" who claimed to be prophets were or not.

From your explanation, these weren't christians, let alone prophets. Without the fruit of the Spirit, one can't prove anything about who or what they are.

John 13:34-35 (KJV) [SUP]34 [/SUP]A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. [SUP]35 [/SUP]By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Galatians 5:19-26 (NASB) [SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, [SUP]21 [/SUP]envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. [SUP]25 [/SUP]If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

The Word always has the answers.

WordGaurdian · Sep 13, 2015

Hello...

Firstly I am not a prophet. Grace is always given. And my gift is well shown to those needing to know of its existence. However, I wish to agree with caution, but also emphasise that a prophet and a prophecy are two very different things. A prophet is not one that continuously prophecy, but rather one that is a prophecy upon himself. And not that that would be the beginning and the end of it. There are so many things surrounding the gift of a prophet that it would take a couple of pages just to cover the basics. However, this is not the purpose of my response. The truth is still in this, those who are for God bears the fruit of God, Gal 5:22. Those who bear the fruit of evil is not for God. So like the Lord said test them in their fruit. Those who bear the fruit of God, will also bear the truth of God. But that does not necessarily make him a prophet. It merely makes him someone that comes in the name of our Lord. Those that bear the gift of a prophet also bear its curse. Rather than trying to identify its gift, try identifying the curse. For those who really bear the burden lives with it regardless. But those who pretend does not even know about it. Every gift has two parts to it. The good and the bad. Or as I'd like to say sometimes, the blessing and the curse. You cannot have the gift and not have both parts. All of it is in the Bible. But people have forgotten how to read. How to listen to God. And how to obey the Holy Spirit. They love themselves to much. So I am in agreement when you say be cautious. But there is given apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors and teachers. But who knows the gift in full. Who understand its mysteries. Its limitations. Its strengths and weaknesses. Only if one can truly speak all of this does one know a gift. For just like one that is an athlete, the athlete has to endure, exercise, train and be tested, so to it is on all the gifts. But the One who tests is not just ourselves, but in grace we might receive understanding.

May it be well with you. There is still hope.

convallaria · Sep 13, 2015

Stephen63 said:

Hi Stephen,

That would depend on God's definition of what a prophet is, rather than someone who feels bruised by a prophet's words. I am one of those people ember whats to discredit by her post.
If you read again the message ember sent to you, you will see she is anxious to enlist you into her following against those who already know they are prophets on this forum. There is nothing wrong with being a prophet, since God has plainly stated He will call and equip prophets in the church. But there seems to be a popular opinion that it is not ok to acknowledge the ministry we are called to. I disagree with that, because we are not called to something we are already able in flesh terms to accomplish: it is a gift. So if we have received that ministry, we cannot boast in it, and hiding it is only going to conceal our motives as though we have some kind of ungodly agenda.

One thing a prophet does is state the truth and state clearly what is wrong. There are many who are happy with keeping what is wrong, and gathering people to agree with them, contrary to the truth, but that is not in God's plan.

posthuman · Sep 13, 2015

convallaria said:

so if a person calls themselves a prophet, and states what is not true, then . . . ?

and if other people challenge them on where they've been in error, but they respond by ignoring those people and their correction, and proclaiming their own authority is above reproach, then . . ?

because that's what i think ember's getting at.

ember · Sep 13, 2015

well, ouch, because the two of them are involved in this thread...the thread I created because I simply posted warnings about false prophets in a thread started by one and oh my mama...it was not well received...again, if you did not read the op, I suggest you might if you want to...cause that will be the Reader's Digest version...

I did not start this thread to discuss the 'prophets'...I started it to discuss what scripture states ABOUT
prophets...the Bible does not say that you do not question the prophet and you do not deny the prophet their place and the Bible does not say curse those who disagree with you and tell people that because you are a prophet only another prophet can have a proper discussion with you

As silly as that sounds, that is the gist of what we all were being told

yes..thank you...exactly my point!

ember · Sep 13, 2015

WordGaurdian said:

Hello...

Firstly I am not a prophet. Grace is always given. And my gift is well shown to those needing to know of its existence. However, I wish to agree with caution, but also emphasise that a prophet and a prophecy are two very different things. A prophet is not one that continuously prophecy, but rather one that is a prophecy upon himself. And not that that would be the beginning and the end of it. There are so many things surrounding the gift of a prophet that it would take a couple of pages just to cover the basics. However, this is not the purpose of my response. The truth is still in this, those who are for God bears the fruit of God, Gal 5:22. Those who bear the fruit of evil is not for God. So like the Lord said test them in their fruit. Those who bear the fruit of God, will also bear the truth of God. But that does not necessarily make him a prophet. It merely makes him someone that comes in the name of our Lord. Those that bear the gift of a prophet also bear its curse. Rather than trying to identify its gift, try identifying the curse. For those who really bear the burden lives with it regardless. But those who pretend does not even know about it. Every gift has two parts to it. The good and the bad. Or as I'd like to say sometimes, the blessing and the curse. You cannot have the gift and not have both parts. All of it is in the Bible. But people have forgotten how to read. How to listen to God. And how to obey the Holy Spirit. They love themselves to much. So I am in agreement when you say be cautious. But there is given apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors and teachers. But who knows the gift in full. Who understand its mysteries. Its limitations. Its strengths and weaknesses. Only if one can truly speak all of this does one know a gift. For just like one that is an athlete, the athlete has to endure, exercise, train and be tested, so to it is on all the gifts. But the One who tests is not just ourselves, but in grace we might receive understanding.

May it be well with you. There is still hope.

and yet the gifts do not come warning....and it is God who gives them by His Spirit

I think I understand what you mean by curse, but, if that is so, then it is the flesh itself that would bear it

however, I think you may be writing of sin and the failings we all have

thanks

ember · Sep 13, 2015

convallaria said:

aw why don't you just let it go?

being cursed by someone who calls themself a prophet is not a bruising...it is simply conformation that they are not a prophet

you know, you would do better if you would point people to Jesus instead of trying to collect yourself an audience that you believe may follow you

you know what I and most folks here already believe and you have earned those words ma'am by your words

you have been boasting since the day you signed on...while denying it

the truth, is found in scripture, so why do you oppose us looking into it?...I left your thread because of your negative reaction to my post concerning warnings about false prophets....all scripture by the way...and you did not receive it. I was not negating your thread; I was balancing it out.

If you leave out instruction from scripture and tell people they cannot tell you anything because you are a prophet and unless one is also a prophet they don't know what they are talking about, then, you know, folks are going to rise up and just say no

which has been happening for some time now

Stephen63 · Sep 13, 2015

WordGaurdian said:

While that paragraph was a difficult read for some, there's truth in it. The prophet carries the prophet's burden. Remember Jeremiah? He is known as the weeping prophet. Weeping, because so much is revealed to him by God thru His words, as well as Jeremiah "seeing" the truth with his understanding. Everywhere he looked, he saw Israel serving idols, stealing from the poor & putting them in prison, buying off the priests, etc.

Today's prophet should be seeing the modern church thru "last days" glasses..... the righteous who are being led to separate themselves from their home churches, those who are falling away, the false teachers & their doctrines that are leading them astray, the preaching of "another Jesus", dead actionless faith, hypergrace, universalism, the setting up of the Antichrist, & the list goes on & on. If you look at it long enough, it will bring you to tears.

posthuman · Sep 13, 2015

preface: i'm not a prophet or a teacher or a preacher & certainly not an apostle. i'm an ungodly man that the Lord shows mercy to. i'm willingly become His servant in gratitude for the grace He gives.

RussellJBenigno said:

no.

Then I saw another angel, who had the seal of the living God rise up from the east. He cried out in a loud voice to
the four angels who were empowered to harm the earth and the sea:
“Don’t harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we seal the slaves of our God on their foreheads.”
(Revelation 7:2-3)

is God's judgement unjust, Russ? are the Lamb and the Almighty unjust forces?
because that's what these angels are "empowered" ((literally, 'to whom it is given to harm the earth and the sea')) to perform.

they are not holding back "unjust forces" but the Lord's own righteous wrath (see immediately preceding verses: Revelation 6:16-17), which is given them to perform.

so ((on topic))
if a guy says "i'm a prophet"
and then he twists plain scripture, what should we as believers make of that? what does scripture say we should do, or what attitude we should take?

crossnote · Sep 13, 2015

Seeing there are no prophets in here, (PM me if you are) the thread is moot, or at best guesswork. Bye.

atwhatcost · Sep 13, 2015

convallaria said:

Hi Stephen,

That would depend on God's definition of what a prophet is, rather than someone who feels bruised by a prophet's words. I am one of those people ember whats to discredit by her post.
If you read again the message ember sent to you, you will see she is anxious to enlist you into her following against those who already know they are prophets on this forum. There is nothing wrong with being a prophet, since God has plainly stated He will call and equip prophets in the church. But there seems to be a popular opinion that it is not ok to acknowledge the ministry we are called to. I disagree with that, because we are not called to something we are already able in flesh terms to accomplish: it is a gift. So if we have received that ministry, we cannot boast in it, and hiding it is only going to conceal our motives as though we have some kind of ungodly agenda.

One thing a prophet does is state the truth and state clearly what is wrong. There are many who are happy with keeping what is wrong, and gathering people to agree with them, contrary to the truth, but that is not in God's plan.

Whoa! CC has forum prophets? I wonder how much CC pays them.

ember · Sep 13, 2015

crossnote said:

well ok, but as I have said from the get go, this op was never about what a prophet is and certainly not about calling them in here

mind you, there was a thread some days back started by Blain asking 'Are you a prophet'...you prob know about that one though

way too many people just accept words...which is the jist of this thread...what does scripture say...never mind what people calling themselves prophets say...

seems scripture has so many warnings regarding the false that a person who is serious would get busy wondering why that is

presidente · Sep 13, 2015

posthuman,

If one person puts someone else on an ignore list, I don't think that they are necessarily treating that person like a Baal worship. We all ignore people at times. If you have really little children, you have to ignore them at times to get anything done when they are all talking at the same time. You can't listen to every one of them play and talk all the time.

If someone is gifted as a prophet and he sees that one poster posts on one hobby horse topic, e.g. Sunday laws as the mark of the beast, or some other idea like that, and he puts the person on ignore so as to read the others posts in the forum, that doesn't mean he thinks that poster is like Baal. Or if he puts someone who posts a wall of text every time without paragraphs or punctuation so as not to have to wade through posts he isn't going to read, that doesn't mean he's treating that person like a Baal worshipper.

I don't get why people would use 'ignore.' Usually it's because of personal conflict. I don't get why someone would want a feature that would allow everyone else in the forum but themselves to read someone else badmouthing them. Maybe they don't want to be tempted to argue or don't want to be stressed by reading the posts. But I don't see how using an ignore feature on a web forum is any kind of Biblical test of a prophet.

posthuman · Sep 13, 2015

presidente said:

for sure, people use "ignore" for different reasons. some of those may be good reasons, and i'm sure some of them are not very good reasons.

i can't say "using ignore is wrong!" and sure enough, you've given us a good & clear example of God's man ignoring someone.
i wanted to explore the basis of that example. i don't think that model applies to everyone's 'ignore list' -- Elisha & Joram are just one example, for sure not exhaustive. it is really interesting to me, and i just wrote about what i saw in that particular case and how maybe we could apply the scripture to our own situations. i didn't mean for it to cover everything

i think some people actually take the attitude that Elisha did, and are misapplying it, because they're considering someone who's really a Jehosaphat, who has good in them but is wrong about some things, as a Joram, who is wicked through-and-through. on the other hand, we do have from time to time visits from 'trolls' (for lack of a better term) that that example could rightly be applied to, who really have no good intention at all, and have no truth in them at all either.

i'm like you - empty ignore list and no intention of adding anyone to it. i'd rather make the mistake of reading something that was a waste of time, than make the mistake of stopping up my ears to someone who turned out to have something very important to tell me. because i know i'm fallible. just speaking for myself - like i said, i can't say "ignore is wrong" but i feel like it is wrong for me. that can certainly just be my own weakness.

ukok102nak · Sep 13, 2015

thank you very much sir/ma'am,
my bad, i thought the scriptures says something about the characteristics of those angels for e.g like those angels mentioned from
2 Thessalonians 1:7
and to give you who are afflicted rest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers,
2 Thessalonians 1:8
in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know Elohim, and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master יהושע Messiah,

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