How to Spot a Legalist

[biblicalsandy]

Is this how we prophecy for God? Is this how Paul handled things? Are we to quote our past sins, while exhorting other, or trying to do righteous judgement.

Unrighteous judgement would be "That person is not dressed right, or wrong color skin!" to say they are no good?"
Righteous judgement would be "I have brought scripture, to show where you fell down and scrapped your knee?"
Knowing how we put out judgement on others will be the same given back in measure?

 

[PennEd]

It seems to me we went about at least a month without one of these works vs. Grace threads. I know this is an issue that especially new Christians need to learn about, BUT there was a relatively peaceful board there for awhile since Jason, and his daily OSAS threads went away, (or started another account). I'm not happy I added to the division. I pray in Jesus' name that my brothers and sisters would work to build one another up in Love and Grace! Peace to you all.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So Christ did not do everything for you. You are to love all men. He cannot do that for you.

Actually I can not do it without him.

You give yourself far to much credit.

 

[maxwel]

It seems to me we went about at least a month without one of these works vs. Grace threads. I know this is an issue that especially new Christians need to learn about, BUT there was a relatively peaceful board there for awhile since Jason, and his daily OSAS threads went away, (or started another account). I'm not happy I added to the division. I pray in Jesus' name that my brothers and sisters would work to build one another up in Love and Grace! Peace to you all.

There's nothing wrong with discussing essential matters of doctrine...
and that will, inherently, create some divisions.

But, we can still try to do it politely and respectfully.

I suppose that isn't always possible.
No matter how polite you try to be, contradicting someone else's paradigm will often make them angry.
But we can still try.

 

[KennethC]

Another thing, there is but One. However, He gave Law because that is what the people wanted. They sought righteousness that was not of faith but performance. They could "do all the Lord commands and obey." Remember? The thing is, the Law cannot save. Righteousness has never been by works or self-righteousness. Righteousness, the kind God accepts, has always been the righteousness of faith. It is a righteousness that is deemed by God through faith and not of works. Look at Abraham to get a picture of it.

Nobody is saying the Law saves nor are we saying we have to keep the written ordinances of the Law for salvation, so this errant way of thinking needs to stop being passed on us and please people actually read what we have said and will say.

Also the teachings and commands given by the Lord in the gospel books are not the Law, nor do they put one under the Law by speaking on obedience to them. That is a bad misconception to even think that way, and anybody who thinks that Apostle Paul taught differently or over rode the things Jesus taught instead of confirming what He said, the bible says they are unlearned and unstable.

For even Apostle Paul says he gives the gospel of Christ and can not teach anything different then what the Lord had already given. All he or anybody can do is build on that foundation !!!

 

[BenFTW]

Following me around to refute me are you? That's your prerogative I suppose. Rather than take my eye out I think I'll just put you on my ignore list. I thought you said that you agreed to disagree with me. I see that you really didn't mean that. Bye

Following you around to refute you? You really are self-centered. I entered this thread because FreeNChrist (a fellow believer in God's grace) started it and its an interesting topic. I just happened to see you posting and had thoughts on what you said. Get over yourself.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It seems to me we went about at least a month without one of these works vs. Grace threads. I know this is an issue that especially new Christians need to learn about, BUT there was a relatively peaceful board there for awhile since Jason, and his daily OSAS threads went away, (or started another account). I'm not happy I added to the division. I pray in Jesus' name that my brothers and sisters would work to build one another up in Love and Grace! Peace to you all.

Sadly, if someone is not yet my brother or sister. I can not build them up. There is only one gospel. not two, not three, not four. One.

We are not all brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[KennethC]

It seems to me we went about at least a month without one of these works vs. Grace threads. I know this is an issue that especially new Christians need to learn about, BUT there was a relatively peaceful board there for awhile since Jason, and his daily OSAS threads went away, (or started another account). I'm not happy I added to the division. I pray in Jesus' name that my brothers and sisters would work to build one another up in Love and Grace! Peace to you all.

I know how you feel but we can not just blame Jason for the heated discussions that went on, for I know a few OSASers on here that are just as guilty of causing strife as well. I have a couple of them on ignore because of the constant strife they cause instead of keeping things respectful and friendly.

I even tried giving a couple of them second chances to no avail !!!

God bless

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Following you around to refute you? You really are self-centered. I entered this thread because FreeNChrist (a fellow believer in God's grace) started it and its an interesting topic. I just happened to see you posting and had thoughts on what you said. Get over yourself.

lol. Funny to see how things have not changed.. And again, People wonder why he gets treated the way he does. His self righteousness is sickening.

 

[KennethC]

There's nothing wrong with discussing essential matters of doctrine...
and that will, inherently, create some divisions.

But, we can still try to do it politely and respectfully.

I suppose that isn't always possible.
No matter how polite you try to be, contradicting someone else's paradigm will often make them angry.
But we can still try.

Yes which is why I have really be thinking a lot here lately on starting a thread discussing true biblical rebuking and reproving.

Because some think that are following the real example and being loving how they reply, when actually they are being contentious and judgmental because there is no exhortation or esteeming in their replies !!!

 

[maxwel]

Yes which is why I have really be thinking a lot here lately on starting a thread discussing true biblical rebuking and reproving.

Because some think that are following the real example and being loving how they reply, when actually they are being contentious and judgmental because there is no exhortation or esteeming in their replies !!!

The reality is, that no matter how sweetly, calmly, or politely you disagree with somebody,
when you contradict their assertions and challenge their paradigm,
many people will get angry.

That's just how humans work.

We should still try to be polite and respectful.
But being more polite still won't fix the problem.

We should be polite just because it's the right thing to do...
but it won't really stop everyone from getting upset.

 

[BenFTW]

Nobody is saying the Law saves nor are we saying we have to keep the written ordinances of the Law for salvation, so this errant way of thinking needs to stop being passed on us and please people actually read what we have said and will say.

Also the teachings and commands given by the Lord in the gospel books are not the Law, nor do they put one under the Law by speaking on obedience to them. That is a bad misconception to even think that way, and anybody who thinks that Apostle Paul taught differently or over rode the things Jesus taught instead of confirming what He said, the bible says they are unlearned and unstable.

For even Apostle Paul says he gives the gospel of Christ and can not teach anything different then what the Lord had already given. All he or anybody can do is build on that foundation !!!

Show me where in the NT do any of the books agree with Jesus' teaching on forgive others or the Lord won't forgive you. Show me one verse. I will let you know ahead of time that the verse you will find is one that says to forgive others because the Lord has forgiven you for Christ's sake. Notice that we have His forgiveness already and we aren't doing anything in order to obtain it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The reality is, that no matter how sweetly, calmly, or politely you disagree with somebody,
when you contradict their assertions and challenge their paradigm,
many people will get angry.

That's just how humans work.

We should still try to be polite and respectful.
But being more polite still won't fix the problem.

We should be polite just because it's the right thing to do...
but it won't really stop everyone from getting upset.

some people just can not handle it when people disagree with them.

They also can not handle it when they are told something they believe even if they deny believing it.

 

[just-me]

"Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was,will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory." 2 Cor. 3:7-10

It appears your train of thought left the station without you. LOL

A true "legalist" doesn't believe Jesus is the Messiah.

Now God spoke into existence a law that brings death and Jesus spoke another law that brings life at the same time Jesus spoke what the minister of death (being His Father) gave Him to say?

"Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things." John 8:28

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It appears your train of thought left the station without you. LOL

A true "legalist" doesn't believe Jesus is the Messiah.

lol. Just proves how blind you are. Yes they do. For Jesus spoke of them doing all these great deeds in his name, Yet he had to tell them to depart for he never knew them.
I know you have me blocked and can't see this, But it is so easy to expose you to others. your form of legalism is dangerous (and yes, I know you teach ones salvation is not secure in Christ. so you are more than just a child of God legalist who struggles to find the right way how to serve God and love others or obey his commands)

 

[KennethC]

The reality is, that no matter how sweetly, calmly, or politely you disagree with somebody,
when you contradict their assertions and challenge their paradigm,
many people will get angry.

That's just how humans work.

We should still try to be polite and respectful.
But being more polite still won't fix the problem.

We should be polite just because it's the right thing to do...
but it won't really stop everyone from getting upset.

I understand that but this is why we are told to operate in the fruit of Spirit, and one of those is patience in dealing with those who want to be contentious.

Those who come out and just start in with heated or demeaning comments still need to learn by the Spirit to bridle their tongues, and if we are not around to point it out to them how are they to know how they are acting is not the correct way to carry oneself in the faith.

We are called by the Holy Spirit to be overseers of the rest of the flock to point them in the right direction !!!
(Acts 20:28)

Show me where in the NT do any of the books agree with Jesus' teaching on forgive others or the Lord won't forgive you. Show me one verse. I will let you know ahead of time that the verse you will find is one that says to forgive others because the Lord has forgiven you for Christ's sake. Notice that we have His forgiveness already and we aren't doing anything in order to obtain it.

Again that is your misunderstand of Apostle Paul as I just brought up and showed you before.

Of course Apostle Paul would use the past tense when it comes to forgiveness because when we first came to the faith and repented of our sins and got baptized into Christ we were given remission of our sins at that point of those we had already committed.

From here all the Apostles especially Paul tell us how to keep from stumbling and returning to a sinful lifestyle, therefore there should be no need to go back to repentance. But as Apostle John shows as well as Paul that "if" not "when" we sin again we will be forgiven when we confess it to the Lord and return to continue walking in the Light/Spirit.

The fact of not forgiving others comes from a unforgiving heart, and those who have no forgiveness in them do not have eternal life abiding in them to begin with !!!

This is the main reason Paul uses a past tense understanding because by that point in our walk and being born again we should automatically have a forgiving nature, as a unforgiving nature is not of God therefore that person who walks as such can not be of God either.

For forgiveness is love, and love is God !!!

 

[BenFTW]

lol. Just proves how blind you are. Yes they do. For Jesus spoke of them doing all these great deeds in his name, Yet he had to tell them to depart for he never knew them.
[/SIZE]I know you have me blocked and can't see this, But it is so easy to expose you to others. your form of legalism is dangerous (and yes, I know you teach ones salvation is not secure in Christ. so you are more than just a child of God legalist who struggles to find the right way how to serve God and love others or obey his commands)

I was thinking about this, this morning. I was considering making a thread on a thought I had. People believe that these individuals worked these miracles and even then, still, Jesus then forsake them saying He never knew them. My question is this then. How do you know God isn't just using you?

We can only assume these people who worked miracles in His name were His children, filled with the Spirit. Right? I don't want to be used by God and then thrown away. How awful a thought. How do these people who say that just because you say, "Lord, Lord" doesn't mean you are saved, know whether or not they are just being used by God?

Does that not bother anyone? We are His children. If we believe this parable is in reference to true believers, then we make God out to be a Father who uses His children for His purposes and then discards them as they are no longer of any use. This, of course, being the God that is Love. Do you not see anything wrong with this? How do you know if God isn't just using you? Its a sad thought and lack of assurance people have...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I was thinking about this, this morning. I was considering making a thread on a thought I had. People believe that these individuals worked these miracles and even then, still, Jesus then forsake them saying He never knew them. My question is this then. How do you know God isn't just using you?

We can only assume these people who worked miracles in His name were His children, filled with the Spirit. Right? I don't want to be used by God and then thrown away. How awful a thought. How do these people who say that just because you say, "Lord, Lord" doesn't mean you are saved, know whether or not they are just being used by God?

Does that not bother anyone? We are His children. If we believe this parable is in reference to true believers, then we make God out to be a Father who uses His children for His purposes and then discards them as they are no longer of any use. This, of course, being the God that is Love. Do you not see anything wrong with this? How do you know if God isn't just using you? Its a sad thought and lack of assurance people have...

sounds like a nice thread. I never thought of it that way before.

Either way, It just goes to show why these false doctrines have to be stopped at all Cost. They make God out to be a human God having human flaws (which is exactly what satan wants us to see) . not an all loving, all knowing creator.

 

[KennethC]

OMGosh !!!

People, people, people

When it comes to Matthew 7:21-23 we need to stop complicating it more than what is clearly said in that passage.

Lord Jesus did not tell them He never knew them because of those works they did, or because they trusted in works to save them. There is absolutely nothing in that passage that says that unless you read more into it then what is being said, and that is a wrong and dangerous approach to do with scripture as that is adding to the word.

Lord Jesus tells us clearly why He told them He never knew them: It was because they continue in lewdness !!!

1.inclined to, characterized by, or inciting to lust or lechery; lascivious.

2.obscene or indecent, as language or songs; salacious.

3.Obsolete.

• low, ignorant, or vulgar.
• base, vile, or wicked, especially of a person.
• bad, worthless, or poor, especially of a thing.

Lewdness = lawlessness = sinful lifestyle

They continued to serve sin as well as try to serve the Lord both, serving two masters which Jesus and Paul says we can not do !!!

 

[notuptome]

Your own statement proves you wrong as those in the upper room where already believers before that point !!!

The only other passages in the bible that show the Holy Spirit given before baptism is Acts 10-15 and anybody who can read clearly can see this was only done to prove to the Jewish believers that Gentiles have the same right to salvation through the Lord as them.

The ones in the upper room are not the same as those spoken of in Acts 2:38 and Acts 3:19.

Also I think you need to look again at verse 33..........

(Acts 16:23) And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

Never ceases to amaze me how some can get every point wrong. Confirms the necessity of the Holy Spirit to open the scriptures and give understanding.

They were the same people in the upper room that spoke at Pentecost. The Philippian jailer was water baptized after he believed. The eunuch was water baptized after he believed and Philip made it clear that belief was necessary before water baptism.

What keeps you from allowing Christ to save you?

For the cause of Christ
Roger