God did away with some of His own sayings

[just-me]

Can we truthfully say that God is in control of our lives while at the same time saying that certain things God has spoken don't apply to our lives?
Under this precedence, are we serving the true Christ who said of Himself that He said nothing of Himself but only what His unchanging Father gave Him?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Let's just stop the "law" rhetoric for a time, and be truthful for once. Are we as professing Christians actually trying to teach that some of what God has spoken doesn't apply to our lives when Jesus said all of it does? Come right out and say it with guts behind it. "I do not believe in all of God's word." Just say it outright and stop "mealy mouthin'" around and get to the real core of a very serious problem within the church.

I don't believe in all of the bible. In fact, I don't believe in the bible at all. I believe in Christ, i.e., the word of GOD. The bible is not the word of GOD; it is a book containing historical records of GOD's dealings with men. Christ is not a book, therefore the bible is not the word of GOD. The word of GOD is living and powerful and perfect; the bible is an imperfect, inanimate object. I believe everything written in the bible, but I do not believe in it. I believe in the one it witnesses about. Believing in the bible is idolatry; no idolater has life abiding in them.

You search the Scriptures, for you think you have eternal life in them; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40​

Stated in a modern context:

You search the bible because you think you have eternal life in it; and this is that which witnesses of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40​

So you err by teaching that the bible is the word of GOD.

 

[just-me]

I don't believe in all of the bible. In fact, I don't believe in the bible at all. I believe in Christ, i.e., the word of GOD. The bible is not the word of GOD; it is a book containing historical records of GOD's dealings with men. Christ is not a book, therefore the bible is not the word of GOD. The word of GOD is living and powerful and perfect; the bible is an imperfect, inanimate object. I believe everything written in the bible, but I do not believe in it. I believe in the one it witnesses about. Believing in the bible is idolatry; no idolater has life abiding in them.

You search the Scriptures, for you think you have eternal life in them; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40​

Stated in a modern context:

You search the bible because you think you have eternal life in it; and this is that which witnesses of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40​

So you err by teaching that the bible is the word of GOD.

I can see by you user name that you believe He rose from the dead. Is that history, or God's Word?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I can see by you user name that you believe He rose from the dead. Is that history, or God's Word?

Christ rose once from the dead. Rose is past tense. His resurrection is history. His life is eternal.

 

[just-me]

Christ rose once from the dead. Rose is past tense. His resurrection is history. His life is eternal.

Where did you ever learn that stuff?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Where did you ever learn that stuff?

From a history book called the bible.

 

[prodigal]

[SUP]galations 3

18 [/SUP]For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Can we truthfully say that God is in control of our lives while at the same time saying that certain things God has spoken don't apply to our lives?
Under this precedence, are we serving the true Christ who said of Himself that He said nothing of Himself but only what His unchanging Father gave Him?

There are a number of things that GOD has spoken that don't 'apply' to my life. For instance, physical circumcision was required under the old covenant, but it is not required under the new covenant. Therefore, the requirement to get physically circumcised in order to be a part of the people of GOD doesn't apply to me (or any one else under the new covenant).

However, being a shadow of the reality of spiritual circumcision under the new covenant, physical circumcision does apply to my life in terms of the edification it provides.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It's the personal intentions that really count. If we desire to see the spiritual side, because the law is spiritual, then we are for sure not carnally minded. No problem sis. If one demands to recognize only the carnal by being "stiffnecked" as the Bible puts it, then there is for sure a problem according to scripture.

In terms of righteousness, personal intentions don't amount to anything. As the saying goes, The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Setting our hearts on the law, which is spiritual (i.e., of the spirit, but not the spirit itself), doesn't make us not carnally minded. Setting our hearts upon the law just shows us our deficiencies. Setting our hearts on Christ is what slays the carnal mind and gives us the mind of Christ because he has given us his spirit.

 

[just-me]

I don't believe in all of the bible. In fact, I don't believe in the bible at all. I believe in Christ, i.e., the word of GOD. The bible is not the word of GOD; it is a book containing historical records of GOD's dealings with men. Christ is not a book, therefore the bible is not the word of GOD. The word of GOD is living and powerful and perfect; the bible is an imperfect, inanimate object. I believe everything written in the bible, but I do not believe in it. I believe in the one it witnesses about. Believing in the bible is idolatry; no idolater has life abiding in them.

You search the Scriptures, for you think you have eternal life in them; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40

Stated in a modern context:
You search the bible because you think you have eternal life in it; and this is that which witnesses of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40

So you err by teaching that the bible is the word of GOD.

I can see by you user name that you believe He rose from the dead. Is that history, or God's Word?

Christ rose once from the dead. Rose is past tense. His resurrection is history. His life is eternal.

Where did you ever learn that stuff?

From a history book called the bible.

So when the word of God that is recorded in the Bible says Christ will return as a lion is that prophecy history?
Is it right to believe that these recorded spoken words of God Almighty are complete history and don't apply to the present state or our future state?
What does hope mean to you? I'm not talking wishful thinking.

So let's continue with John chapter 5:41-47. you quoted verses 39 and 40. Who was Jesus talking to, believers in Him, or the “under the law” Pharisees?

41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

So I will quote your quote to me back to you but use the word “scripture" for better understanding of what this thread is all about. “So you err by teaching that the [scripture] is the word of GOD”

 

[just-me]

There are a number of things that GOD has spoken that don't 'apply' to my life. For instance, physical circumcision was required under the old covenant, but it is not required under the new covenant. Therefore, the requirement to get physically circumcised in order to be a part of the people of GOD doesn't apply to me (or any one else under the new covenant).

However, being a shadow of the reality of spiritual circumcision under the new covenant, physical circumcision does apply to my life in terms of the edification it provides.

Where did you learn that? The old covenant had the same teaching.

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. Deuteronomy 10:16

 

[just-me]

In terms of righteousness, personal intentions don't amount to anything. As the saying goes, The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Setting our hearts on the law, which is spiritual (i.e., of the spirit, but not the spirit itself), doesn't make us not carnally minded. Setting our hearts upon the law just shows us our deficiencies. Setting our hearts on Christ is what slays the carnal mind and gives us the mind of Christ because he has given us his spirit.

I agree with that. Where did you learn that? Does setting our minds on Christ give us good intentions when we desire to have His word in our hearts?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

All the 613 laws have both physical applications with spiritual truth behind them. Spirit 1st and application 2nd. I have said numerous times on a number of threads that I eat bacon now and then. That's physical, but not spiritual understanding if that's all the further I take it.

Not sure exactly what you mean by this, but it does seem to contradict what Paul said:

The spiritual did not come first [under the old covenant], but the natural, and after that the spiritual [under the new covenant]. 1 Corinthians 15:46​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So when the word of God that is recorded in the Bible says Christ will return as a lion is that prophecy history?
Is it right to believe that these recorded spoken words of God Almighty are complete history and don't apply to the present state or our future state?
What does hope mean to you? I'm not talking wishful thinking.

Yes, that prophecy is recorded history of a vision of something that will happen in the future.

Everything in the bible applies to us in terms of education.

So let's continue with John chapter 5:41-47. you quoted verses 39 and 40. Who was Jesus talking to, believers in Him, or the “under the law” Pharisees?

41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

So I will quote your quote to me back to you but use the word “scripture" for better understanding of what this thread is all about. “So you err by teaching that the [scripture] is the word of GOD”

Scripture is not the word of GOD; it is only the recordings of men who bore witness in the spirit of the word of GOD, who is Christ. The Pharisees didn't believe Moses' witness; therefore they couldn't receive Christ.

 

[just-me]

All the 613 laws have both physical applications with spiritual truth behind them. Spirit 1st and application 2nd. I have said numerous times on a number of threads that I eat bacon now and then. That's physical, but not spiritual understanding if that's all the further I take it.

Not sure exactly what you mean by this, but it does seem to contradict what Paul said:

The spiritual did not come first [under the old covenant], but the natural, and after that the spiritual [under the new covenant]. 1 Corinthians 15:46
​

For believer the spiritual comes first because they understand the parable of the physical, like the parable of th sower and the seed. For those under the law the physical is all they can understand. The law came first and the spiritual understanding comes second. But if there is nothing to compare the spiritual to by association, then the spiritual is without foundation because it's based on nothing.
Physical = Don't murder people Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Spiritual = Don't hate others in your heart because that's the same a murder in God's eyes. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
Physical = Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Spiritual = whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Matthew 5:28b

Motivation that brings action/application

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Where did you learn that? The old covenant had the same teaching.

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. Deuteronomy 10:16

But something the old covenant had that the new covenant doesn't is the requirement for all males to be physically circumcised. Those under the old covenant were required to be physically circumcised, and admonished to be circumcised in their hearts. The only requirement under the new covenant is circumcision of the heart.

 

[BenFTW]

All the 613 laws have both physical applications with spiritual truth behind them. Spirit 1st and application 2nd. I have said numerous times on a number of threads that I eat bacon now and then. That's physical, but not spiritual understanding if that's all the further I take it.

For believer the spiritual comes first because they understand the parable of the physical. For those under the law the physical is all they can understand. The law came first and the spiritual understanding comes second. But if there is nothing to compare the spiritual to by association, then the spiritual is without foundation because it's based on nothing.
Physical = Don't murder people Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Spiritual = Don't hate others in your heart because that's the same a murder in God's eyes. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
Physical = Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Spiritual = whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Matthew 5:28b

Are you saying Jesus rose the standard of the Law, making it harder to save yourself? I think He was revealing the full extent of the Law and saying you can't keep it no matter how hard you try. He was presenting the requirement of perfection and that we are unable to be perfect in and of ourselves, self-righteousness never saves. Do you practice the spiritual all the time? If not, then where is your basis for security, or assurance in your salvation?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

For believer the spiritual comes first because they understand the parable of the physical, like the parable of th sower and the seed. For those under the law the physical is all they can understand. The law came first and the spiritual understanding comes second. But if there is nothing to compare the spiritual to by association, then the spiritual is without foundation because it's based on nothing.
Physical = Don't murder people Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Spiritual = Don't hate others in your heart because that's the same a murder in God's eyes. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
Physical = Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Spiritual = whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Matthew 5:28b

Motivation that brings action/application

Spiritual knowledge comes through faith; comparison to the law is edifying, but not necessary. Many godly men bore witness of the word of GOD, lived godly lives and saw Christ's coming for thousands of years before the law was manifested.

 

[just-me]

But something the old covenant had that the new covenant doesn't is the requirement for all males to be physically circumcised. Those under the old covenant were required to be physically circumcised, and admonished to be circumcised in their hearts. The only requirement under the new covenant is circumcision of the heart.

As stated above that is only physical, but in Deuteronomy it's understood as spiritual. Besides that sign of this physical covenant originated with Abraham not Moses. The spiritual application originated with Moses and this is transfered to the new covenant, culnimated though Christ and now we are also the seed of Abraham grafted into the olive tree being the physical parable of Christ Himself. Circumcised in heart is spiritual obviously.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

As stated above that is only physical, but in Deuteronomy it's understood as spiritual. Besides that sign of this physical covenant originated with Abraham not Moses. The spiritual application originated with Moses and this is transfered to the new covenant, culnimated though Christ and now we are also the seed of Abraham grafted into the olive tree being the physical parable of Christ Himself. Circumcised in heart is spiritual obviously.

The two are entirely separate and distinct. One could be circumcised in the flesh, but not in the heart. And vice versa. The physical was a shadow of the reality. Shadows are not reality; they signify reality in some way. Moses alluded to that reality by telling them to be circumcised in the heart.

Physical circumcision was the sign of a covenant with Abraham. It was later incorporated into the law through Moses.