God did away with some of His own sayings

[BarlyGurl]

Well maybe somebody needs to define the LIBERTY that Jesus purchased for us... Liberty from WHAT I wonder? Or is it just ABSOLUTE liberty??? seems both concepts are swirling around with out any distinct reference.

 

[BenFTW]

Well maybe somebody needs to define the LIBERTY that Jesus purchased for us... Liberty from WHAT I wonder? Or is it just ABSOLUTE liberty??? seems both concepts are swirling around with out any distinct reference.

Freedom from that which was against us, that which condemned us. The Law. Remember what Jesus said, "My yoke is easy and my burden light." He was setting free the captives, people enslaved to sin and the Law couldn't help. But Jesus could and did. He has made us die to sin and made us alive unto God. We serve not in the oldness of the letter but in the newness of the spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Freedom from that which was against us, that which condemned us. The Law. Remember what Jesus said, "My yoke is easy and my burden light." He was setting free the captives, people enslaved to sin and the Law couldn't help. But Jesus could and did. He has made us die to sin and made us alive unto God. We serve not in the oldness of the letter but in the newness of the spirit.

Amen, it is not freedom to live any way we desire. It is freedom to strive to live for God without fear that if you do not do it perfectly, you will get kicked out of his family or judged.

There is no freedom in legalism, or the law. Only a fearful expectation of judgement (or a blind knowledge of how sinful you really are)

 

[just-me]

Well maybe somebody needs to define the LIBERTY that Jesus purchased for us... Liberty from WHAT I wonder? Or is it just ABSOLUTE liberty??? seems both concepts are swirling around with out any distinct reference.

It's just that false doctrine teaches that we are free from the law in order to bring us into a different law called "liberty." Then we don't have to see that we are free from our own sins, we just need to keep saying we are free form the law of God that reveals the sin. After all, where there is no law, there is no sin, so Jesus killed the law and not the sin. This is the "law that came first" misconception when the Bible clearly states that the law entered because of transgression. Those that want part of God's word deleted through Christ have it backwards. They say that the law ushers in sin, rather than manifests sin, so in order to get rid of sin the law needs to vanish. If sins in an individual are truly killed on the cross through Jesus, there would be no fear of the law that God gave. After all the same God that gave the law also gave His Son. To connect God's words with sin is blasphemy.

 

[just-me]

Yup. You refute. You refute above all else. I asked a question of both you and Ben and got no complete answer from either.

I guess refuting is more important.

BenFTW is on my ignore list now, and I will stop responding to him. I think that is good as this is what is right in both of our opinions.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's just that false doctrine teaches that we are free from the law in order to bring us into a different law called "liberty." Then we don't have to see that we are free from our own sins, we just need to keep saying we are free form the law of God that reveals the sin. After all, where there is no law, there is no sin, so Jesus killed the law and not the sin. This is the "law that came first" misconception when the Bible clearly states that the law entered because of transgression. Those that want part of God's word deleted through Christ have it backwards. They say that the law ushers in sin, rather than manifests sin, so in order to get rid of sin the law needs to vanish. If sins in an individual are truly killed on the cross through Jesus, there would be no fear of the law that God gave. After all the same God that gave the law also gave His Son. To connect God's words with sin is blasphemy.

lol, Again so easy.

It is the law which proves to us we can never stand up to Gods standard. So you say that if we do not follow it. we can hide our sin, when actually the opposite is true, You who tries to follow it have to hide your sin, For if you did not. You could never teach or believe the way you do.

Your holier than though legalism is your downfall. You judge people who KNOW they are sinfull, when you deny the fact, You can not obey the very law you claim to follow (the defenition of a hypocrite)

 

[atwhatcost]

Sigh... I can only say get over it. Not offensively but as a matter of stop with the holier than thou silliness. We are having a discussion and though it can get heated through passions hate is not in the equation towards the other. It may be towards the doctrine but not the person.

We aren't arguing so much as discussing, however when people throw allegations it can be annoying. I am not convicted by anything just-me says, I am not being "stiff-necked towards God's words, its the Law' as he says. Allegations and insults hurled and yet again he fails to see the error of upholding the words of Jesus at the cost of the liberty He purchased for us. He, once again, doesn't rightly divide the Word. This is a fact and observation, not an allegation. It is the truth.

I thought you were having a discussion. Ends up you're both promoting your view.

I was looking for answers. I just wanted answers. I got spin both ways.

As for you two discussing? Apparently not, since both reactions were the same. "He started it, Mom." Doesn't that give any hint how well you're selling your product?

Me? I asked a question 2-3 pages ago, got answers that went right around the question, rephrased, and then that's that. We did have an understanding that once you two were finished, others could ask questions. Now that's holier-than-thou?

Ah! Got it. If I'm not buying your product, then I'm wasted time. You've both got sales to make.

As someone who did have to make sales, here's a hint. Know when you're getting a firm No and move on.

I just got mine and I wasn't even selling anything. I just wanted to find out what you're both selling in more detail. Deep down, I thought you were both selling God. Nope. Selling upbringing.

Please feel free to continue. I can see this thread going in circles for hundreds of pages. lol

Hey, I felt free to say that not because of God, but because you both are so full of yourself you are no different than what I just said. (Not holier-that-thou. You're level.)

 

[BenFTW]

BenFTW is on my ignore list now, and I will stop responding to him. I think that is good as this is what is right in both of our opinions.

Ignored you say? Also, you say I agree with this? Putting more words in my mouth... nothing new.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Well maybe somebody needs to define the LIBERTY that Jesus purchased for us... Liberty from WHAT I wonder? Or is it just ABSOLUTE liberty??? seems both concepts are swirling around with out any distinct reference.

liberty - eleutheria - 1) liberty to do or omit things having no relationship to salvation. 2) fancied liberty A. license, the liberty to do as one pleases 3) true liberty is living as we should NOT as we please

Def. #2 is what most around here assume . . . but definition 1 and 3 are actually what we mean when we use the word "liberty". Thayer's goes on to say that it means "liberty from the yoke of the Mosaic law" (remember that the Mosaic law is NOT only the ten commandments BUT 613 laws/commands) in connection with the following verses:

Gal. 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage . . . (sound familiar?)
Gal. 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal. 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Here's a law for ya: If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; and they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; and his a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil from among you; . . . . Remember that if one wants to live by the "law" then he must live by the WHOLE law . . .

 

[BenFTW]

I thought you were having a discussion. Ends up you're both promoting your view.

I was looking for answers. I just wanted answers. I got spin both ways.

As for you two discussing? Apparently not, since both reactions were the same. "He started it, Mom." Doesn't that give any hint how well you're selling your product?

Me? I asked a question 2-3 pages ago, got answers that went right around the question, rephrased, and then that's that. We did have an understanding that once you two were finished, others could ask questions. Now that's holier-than-thou?

Ah! Got it. If I'm not buying your product, then I'm wasted time. You've both got sales to make.

As someone who did have to make sales, here's a hint. Know when you're getting a firm No and move on.

I just got mine and I wasn't even selling anything. I just wanted to find out what you're both selling in more detail. Deep down, I thought you were both selling God. Nope. Selling upbringing.

Please feel free to continue. I can see this thread going in circles for hundreds of pages. lol

Hey, I felt free to say that not because of God, but because you both are so full of yourself you are no different than what I just said. (Not holier-that-thou. You're level.)

"Full of yourself." More holier than thou comments, I see. I was referencing with my holier than thou comment your post that said, "I wasn't asking for a truce. I was asking for understanding and a bit of love. I guess that isn't possible on this site."

Selling God? Selling upbringing? What are you on about? Lynn, it might be better for you to keep your peace because these posts are not edifying in the least. It will only cause more strife. You have already joined in with insults, to attack our character but it only reveals your own.

I stand by what I said earlier, passive aggressiveness.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Freedom from that which was against us, that which condemned us. The Law. Remember what Jesus said, "My yoke is easy and my burden light." He was setting free the captives, people enslaved to sin and the Law couldn't help. But Jesus could and did. He has made us die to sin and made us alive unto God. We serve not in the oldness of the letter but in the newness of the spirit.

Well that is very interesting... I was pretty sure the bible said we were Liberated from being a slave to SATAN, the god of this world... how about that?

 

[BenFTW]

Well that is very interesting... I was pretty sure the bible said we were Liberated from being a slave to SATAN, the god of this world... how about that?

Its all part of the package.

 

[just-me]

I was looking for answers. I just wanted answers. I got spin both ways.

Please feel free to continue. I can see this thread going in circles for hundreds of pages. lol

I would like to give you the answers that you are looking for and God's words don't spin and spin round. They are quite solidified in my opinion. I believe what Jesus, David, John and Paul said.

Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Matthew 4:4 (Jesus speaking)

For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 (David speaking)

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 1 John 2:5 (John speaking)

All scripture (being the OT at that time in history) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16 (Paul speaking)

Ben believes this.

I would hope you would reject some scripture because of the "grace of Jesus" or we are going to have to get you circumcised. *snip snip*

I find nothing in scripture that says to reject certain parts of God's spoken words for the purpose of being given God's grace.

East is east, and west is west and never the twain shall meet. Ben and I are polar opposites in whether all of God's words are relevant, or just a fraction are. It is up to you, the beholder, to determine which is correct.

If in your opinion Ben is right, then by all means carry on a conversation with him to find your answer. If you believe what I believe to be more correct, maybe I can answer the question that you are wanting to see or find out.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would like to give you the answers that you are looking for and God's words don't spin and spin round. They are quite solidified in my opinion. I believe what Jesus, David, John and Paul said.

Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Matthew 4:4 (Jesus speaking)

For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 (David speaking)

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 1 John 2:5 (John speaking)

All scripture (being the OT at that time in history) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16 (Paul speaking)

Ben believes this.
I find nothing in scripture that says to reject certain parts of God's spoken words for the purpose of being given God's grace.

East is east, and west is west and never the twain shall meet. Ben and I are polar opposites in whether all of God's words are relevant, or just a fraction are. It is up to you, the beholder, to determine which is correct.

If in your opinion Ben is right, then by all means carry on a conversation with him to find your answer. If you believe what I believe to be more correct, maybe I can answer the question that you are wanting to see or find out.

So go preach circumcision, and go preach the temple sacrifices, Go preach the priesthood.

Not this symbolic crap. That not in the OT.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I would like to give you the answers that you are looking for and God's words don't spin and spin round. They are quite solidified in my opinion. I believe what Jesus, David, John and Paul said.

Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Matthew 4:4 (Jesus speaking)

For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89 (David speaking)

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 1 John 2:5 (John speaking)

All scripture (being the OT at that time in history) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16 (Paul speaking)

Ben believes this.
I find nothing in scripture that says to reject certain parts of God's spoken words for the purpose of being given God's grace.

East is east, and west is west and never the twain shall meet. Ben and I are polar opposites in whether all of God's words are relevant, or just a fraction are. It is up to you, the beholder, to determine which is correct.

If in your opinion Ben is right, then by all means carry on a conversation with him to find your answer. If you believe what I believe to be more correct, maybe I can answer the question that you are wanting to see or find out.

It is true that we live by every word that proceeds from God . . . every word is not THE LAW. Every precept is not THE LAW but there are precepts that we should live by as Christians. All scripture is God breathed but NOT ALL scripture is applicable to each generation - such as the totality of the 613 laws. The dietary laws are not longer applicable, nor or the Levitical priesthood laws applicable for the church, the body of Christ. And if anyone were to do the following, I am sure that they would end up in prison . . . If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; and they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; and his a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil from among you; . . . . Remember that if one wants to live by the "law" then he must live by the WHOLE law . . . It was applicable then but NOT NOW.

What is being said is NOT that we should ignore nor believe in every word of God nor are we saying that we can not learn doctrine, reproof and correction from ALL scripture but that ALL scripture is not applicable nor can be.

 

[just-me]

It is true that we live by every word that proceeds from God . . . every word is not THE LAW. Every precept is not THE LAW but there are precepts that we should live by as Christians. All scripture is God breathed but NOT ALL scripture is applicable to each generation - such as the totality of the 613 laws. The dietary laws are not longer applicable, nor or the Levitical priesthood laws applicable for the church, the body of Christ. And if anyone were to do the following, I am sure that they would end up in prison . . . If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; and they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; and his a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil from among you; . . . . Remember that if one wants to live by the "law" then he must live by the WHOLE law . . . It was applicable then but NOT NOW.

What is being said is NOT that we should ignore nor believe in every word of God nor are we saying that we can not learn doctrine, reproof and correction from ALL scripture but that ALL scripture is not applicable nor can be.

I can see where you are coming from and your thinking. If we stop looking at the physical applications of scriptures only and investigate the spiritual aspects, we would be proving to ourselves that we have the Holy Spirit's guidance.

All the 613 laws have both physical applications with spiritual truth behind them. Spirit 1st and application 2nd. I have said numerous times on a number of threads that I eat bacon now and then. That's physical, but not spiritual understanding if that's all the further I take it.

Post 376

The split hooves of pigs are good, but not good enough because of not having a cud as a clean animal has. The split hoof represents direction or motivation such as what is on a clean beast such as a sheep, goats, cows, oxen etc. Because pigs eat garbage along with foliage, they are spiritually consuming what we know as the “doctrine of Balaam.” (Compromising the truth with paganism in short)

Now pigs do not have a cud to properly digest their intake such as a clean animal. Therefore they are likened unto one that cannot comprehend, and totally digest their intake. Concerning ourselves, we are to properly digest the manna from heaven, because all good gifts come from above. This is likened unto a “cud,” milling the truth over and over until we get it right. We are not to ascribe to the way of a pig. Therefore, spiritually we are not to consume those false attributes found in this parable of a pig. This is New covenant truth.

With that said I quote Romans 8:6-7. This is a hard fact, but we should be searching for the spiritual truth in the law of God, for that is a substantial part of God's words and we live by all of them, not just a fraction of them according to the words of Christ Jesus. If we argue a point that never looks beyond the physical aspects, and at the same time used that carnal understanding to debunk God's words, it is then proven that we haven't the spiritual understanding that we might say we have.

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:6-7

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39

I will be happy to share with you and answer any questions you might have about the law if I know certain parts of this or that, because I certainly don't know it all by any means, but I really don't want to cause confusion by concentrating on its carnal aspects. To converse the foreshadowing with carnal rhetoric is clearly vain and ridiculous. We see that all the time in CC. It is high time to stop disagreeing and start learning.

 

[BenFTW]

I can see where you are coming from and your thinking. If we stop looking at the physical applications of scriptures only and investigate the spiritual aspects, we would be proving to ourselves that we have the Holy Spirit's guidance.

All the 613 laws have both physical applications with spiritual truth behind them. Spirit 1st and application 2nd. I have said numerous times on a number of threads that I eat bacon now and then. That's physical, but not spiritual understanding if that's all the further I take it.

Post 376


With that said I quote Romans 8:6-7. This is a hard fact, but we should be searching for the spiritual truth in the law of God, for that is a substantial part of God's words and we live by all of them, not just a fraction of them according to the words of Christ Jesus. If we argue a point that never looks beyond the physical aspects, and at the same time used that carnal understanding to debunk God's words, it is then proven that we haven't the spiritual understanding that we might say we have.

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:6-7

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39

I will be happy to share with you and answer any questions you might have about the law if I know certain parts of this or that, because I certainly don't know it all by any means, but I really don't want to cause confusion by concentrating on its carnal aspects. To converse the foreshadowing with carnal rhetoric is clearly vain and ridiculous. We see that all the time in CC. It is high time to stop disagreeing and start learning.

Impossible when you put people on ignore that disagree with you, no discussion can take place (unfortunately).

 

[pottersclay]

I probably don't have your answer Lynn but There a hug and lots of that L-word stuff
Now get back to refuting or what ever it is you do.....lol

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I can see where you are coming from and your thinking. If we stop looking at the physical applications of scriptures only and investigate the spiritual aspects, we would be proving to ourselves that we have the Holy Spirit's guidance.

All the 613 laws have both physical applications with spiritual truth behind them. Spirit 1st and application 2nd. I have said numerous times on a number of threads that I eat bacon now and then. That's physical, but not spiritual understanding if that's all the further I take it.

Post 376

I believe that the Israelites did not keep these commandments "spiritually" but "literally" and so these commandments were MEANT literally. Now with the NT, can I look back and see the "spiritual" connection? Yes . . . but only in light of the NT. So I would say the physical was first - then the spiritual.

With that said I quote Romans 8:6-7. This is a hard fact, but we should be searching for the spiritual truth in the law of God, for that is a substantial part of God's words and we live by all of them, not just a fraction of them according to the words of Christ Jesus. If we argue a point that never looks beyond the physical aspects, and at the same time used that carnal understanding to debunk God's words, it is then proven that we haven't the spiritual understanding that we might say we have.

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:6-7

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39

Because I read scripture more literally and take it with a more literal approach than you, does not mean that I am carnal.

I will be happy to share with you and answer any questions you might have about the law if I know certain parts of this or that, because I certainly don't know it all by any means, but I really don't want to cause confusion by concentrating on its carnal aspects. To converse the foreshadowing with carnal rhetoric is clearly vain and ridiculous. We see that all the time in CC. It is high time to stop disagreeing and start learning.

I thank you for your heart to share what you have learned . . . and I do partly understand where you are coming from but I don't believe you see the significance of what you are doing - It SEEMS as if you negate the significance of the NT and seem to prefer the OT to the revelation of the NT. You may not even be doing that but that is what it SEEMS. These things in the OT were very relevant to that culture and time and in their obedience for righteousness - our righteousness is obtained through faith in Jesus Christ - through HIS obedience.

Let me ask you: . . Do you "put tzitzit on the corners" of your clothing? (Num. 15:38) Do you bind tefillin on your arm and head? (Deut. 6:8) Of course we don't because we have the holy Spirit bringing things to our remembrance, leading us and guiding us.

We will disagree on something - that is inevitable. And I do believe that there are some that learn - I have learned quite a bit on my time here - rather or not I agree - is another thing!

 

[just-me]

I believe that the Israelites did not keep these commandments "spiritually" but "literally" and so these commandments were MEANT literally. Now with the NT, can I look back and see the "spiritual" connection? Yes . . . but only in light of the NT. So I would say the physical was first - then the spiritual.

Because I read scripture more literally and take it with a more literal approach than you, does not mean that I am carnal.

It's the personal intentions that really count. If we desire to see the spiritual side, because the law is spiritual, then we are for sure not carnally minded. No problem sis. If one demands to recognize only the carnal by being "stiffnecked" as the Bible puts it, then there is for sure a problem according to scripture.

I thank you for your heart to share what you have learned . . . and I do partly understand where you are coming from but I don't believe you see the significance of what you are doing - It SEEMS as if you negate the significance of the NT and seem to prefer the OT to the revelation of the NT. You may not even be doing that but that is what it SEEMS. These things in the OT were very relevant to that culture and time and in their obedience for righteousness - our righteousness is obtained through faith in Jesus Christ - through HIS obedience.

If you haven't noticed, I quote the NT much more than the OT. Without the NT it would be impossible for me to decipher the OT for as you say, the Israelites (without faith that is) didn't recognize the spiritual significance of the law. It was just regulations to them such as the non believing Pharisees portrayed.

Let me ask you: . . Do you "put tzitzit on the corners" of your clothing? (Num. 15:38) Do you bind tefillin on your arm and head? (Deut. 6:8) Of course we don't because we have the holy Spirit bringing things to our remembrance, leading us and guiding us.

Those things are understood in the spiritual aspect of this scripture.
I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever and ever. Psalm 45:17

When I remember thee upon my bed, and meditate on thee in the night watches. Psalm 63:6

To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; Luke 1:72

I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive. Acts 20:35

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26

We will disagree on something - that is inevitable. And I do believe that there are some that learn - I have learned quite a bit on my time here - rather or not I agree - is another thing!

That's a given, but it's a matter of give and take. When conversing correctly in spirit, then both parties are edified, not only of each other's personage, but with God right smack dab in the center because it's His words, not ours. (smile) I like this!!

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Matthew 18:20