Discussing the Garden of eden event

Sanashankar · Sep 21, 2015

But these verses comes after the fall. But is present, progressive, future tense--not 'creatED' as in the King James, but creating in the hebrew interlinear.

Gen 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

And we cant say that we are not in the process of being in the likeness of God, because we have reached the first step of being in the likeness...i.e knowing what is good and evil

Gen 3:22-And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

FreeNChrist · Sep 21, 2015

Sanashankar said:

Man was created in the image of God. How do you explain away the reality that on the seventh day God rested from creating?

Except our "knowing" of good and evil is a perversion of the "knowing" of God, it is not a step in being made into the likeness of God. God IS Good. God knows evil by how it relates to Himself. All that is contrary to His own character is necessarily evil. But we are not God nor good, so we can try, but we cannot "know" either good or evil by relating it to ourselves.

onlinebuddy · Sep 21, 2015

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

My Bible says CREATED not "creating" or "creates."
Verse 31 says that God saw ALL he made (including man, whom he created in verse 27), and IT WAS VERY GOOD.

onlinebuddy · Sep 21, 2015

Sanashankar said:

They were given a choice, and God knew beforehand that they would CHOOSE to sin.

Not true! They were already created in the image and likeness (not the exactness) of God. They had a choice to choose good and maintain that image, or choose evil and corrupt that image(which they eventually did).

How could sinning be the first step towards becoming the image of God? Going by your logic this would mean that if they had not sinned, they stood no chance of obtaining the image and likeness of God. The truth is that they did not have to strive to achieve the image of God. They were already made in the image and likeness of God. The 1st and the last step of the process of creating them in the image and likeness of God was over. In fact, eating of the fruit, was the first step towards Satan(corruption).

carolb · Sep 21, 2015

There was a reason that God rested on the 7th day, after creating amendment & women (plural). Then He created Adam & Eve on the 8th day to bring forth Christ. God already knew what was going to happen in the garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were created for the purpose of free will. You cannot make someone love you. Ultimately that is all God seeks from us is our genuine love. God created all of us for His pleasure. This can only be given by free will.

Tintin · Sep 21, 2015

carolb said:

There was a reason that God rested on the 7th day, after creating amendment & women (plural). Then He created Adam & Eve on the 8th day to bring forth Christ. God already knew what was going to happen in the garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were created for the purpose of free will. You cannot make someone love you. Ultimately that is all God seeks from us is our genuine love. God created all of us for His pleasure. This can only be given by free will.

Again, these first two sentences of yours are non-biblical/a load of bunk/nonsense/crap.

dcontroversal · Sep 21, 2015

It was a test alright.....one which allowed every spirit in God's kingdom to come and partake of flesh and choose between God's Kingdom and the fallen fleshly kingdom of Satan.....EVEN JESUS...the very SON of God had to disrobe, take upon himself flesh, suffer, be tempted and choose........!

carolb · Sep 21, 2015

Then why did he say in Gen chp two, after the 7th day, there was no man to work the field, then he created Adam?

Tintin · Sep 21, 2015

Sanashankar said:

I too believe that God's word is truth......Thats why i back up what i say with verses from the scripture.

[SUP]3[/SUP] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[SUP]4[/SUP] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

[SUP]6[/SUP] And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
[SUP]7[/SUP] And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
[SUP]9[/SUP] And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dryland appear: and it was so.
[SUP]10[/SUP] And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]11[/SUP] And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
[SUP]12[/SUP] And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]14[/SUP] And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
[SUP]15[/SUP] And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
[SUP]16[/SUP] And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
[SUP]17[/SUP] And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
[SUP]18[/SUP] And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]20[/SUP] And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
[SUP]21[/SUP] And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]22[/SUP] And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
[SUP]24[/SUP] And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
[SUP]25[/SUP] And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
[SUP]27[/SUP] So God created (greek- CREATING...)man in his own image, in the image of God created (CREATES...)he him; male and female created (CREATES...)he them.
[SUP]28[/SUP] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Where is it??????????Why doesnt the scripture say "IT WAS SO" or "GOD SAW IT WAS GOOD", after the creation of human beings?????????????????????????

Then after mentioning all the creations the scripture says

[SUP]29[/SUP] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which isthe fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
[SUP]30[/SUP] And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
[SUP]31[/SUP] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Hey, bucko. If you're not going to read what I wrote in reply to you earlier, just say so. But don't pretend you're listening. Here, I've copied and pasted the relevant part for your convenience.

It was only once humanity was created, that God declared Creation to be 'very good'. Before humanity, Creation was merely 'good'. The whole Bible points to the fact that Creation was perfect before the Fall. You need to know the Gospel basics before you can hope to teach anything.

Tintin · Sep 21, 2015

carolb said:

That's because there's only one creation account, but there are two different focuses. The first (Chapter 1) is very broad in its scope. It covers the whole of Creation. The second (Chapter 2) narrows its focus to the creation of Adam and his wife, Eve. There's only one creation account though. It's so easy to understand, even a child could do it.

onlinebuddy · Sep 22, 2015

Sanashankar said:

I too believe that God's word is truth......Thats why i back up what i say with verses from the scripture.

[SUP]3[/SUP] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[SUP]4[/SUP] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

[SUP]6[/SUP] And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
[SUP]7[/SUP] And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
[SUP]9[/SUP] And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dryland appear: and it was so.
[SUP]10[/SUP] And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]11[/SUP] And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
[SUP]12[/SUP] And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]14[/SUP] And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
[SUP]15[/SUP] And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
[SUP]16[/SUP] And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
[SUP]17[/SUP] And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
[SUP]18[/SUP] And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]20[/SUP] And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
[SUP]21[/SUP] And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]22[/SUP] And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
[SUP]24[/SUP] And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
[SUP]25[/SUP] And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
[SUP]27[/SUP] So God created (greek- CREATING...)man in his own image, in the image of God created (CREATES...)he him; male and female created (CREATES...)he them.
[SUP]28[/SUP] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Where is it??????????Why doesnt the scripture say "IT WAS SO" or "GOD SAW IT WAS GOOD", after the creation of human beings?????????????????????????

Then after mentioning all the creations the scripture says

[SUP]29[/SUP] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which isthe fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
[SUP]30[/SUP] And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
[SUP]31[/SUP] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

I find it weird that you lay so much emphasis on the words "and it was so"
and that you miss the conclusion of God: that "it was very good"

Yes, I don't mean to repeat myself, the passage you quoted, says the same...the last line.

God saw "everything" that he had made. So he was referring to everything (incl. man).
What did he conclude? He concluded that it was VERY GOOD.
Before the creation of man, it was just good.
After the creation of man, it was "very good."
That's the conclusion of God regarding ALL that he had created- the bottomline!
So the last line nullifies your argument!

Now, about your claim that it is not "created" but the Greek word "creating" ...
Wasn't the OT written in Hebrew?
I do not know Greek, so I have to rely on my English translation. Do you know Greek?
What Greek source are you studying from?

onlinebuddy · Sep 22, 2015

carolb said:

What, according to you was the reason? Would like to know...
Also, which verse mentions the word, "women?"

onlinebuddy · Sep 22, 2015

Sanashankar said:

You are quoting verses out of context!
These verses are not about the creation of man in God's image, as in Genesis.

Paul and John are talking to believers who have put their faith in Christ(not to unbelieving mankind).
So these verses are about fallen nature of man, and God's plan for their redemption, which was planned by God in advance.

What these verses are not saying: that man's creation into the image of God is in process, and will be completed at Christ's coming.

What these verses are generally saying in combination with other similar verses (let me give it a try):
Although we are saved, we still carry our physical earthly bodies and our sinful natures.
At salvation, God has not renewed our bodies and sinful natures, although He has renewed our minds.
He has renewed our status from being lost to saved; from being sons of evil to Sons of God through Jesus.
Therefore our fight against Satan will continue, till Christs returns or till we die, whichever comes first.
Although Christ has finished the work of salvation, our redemption is a process.
Today, we are not exactly as Christ.
We have our old natures underneath, but we have put on Christ.
So when God looks at us, he looks at the righteousness of Christ and not at our sins.
However, when Christ returns, we will have renewed bodies and natures- just like that of Jesus.
At that time, our fight against Satan will be over.
So we must have our focus on the Goal and be encouraged by it. This will help us fight against sin and remain pure till Christ comes.

Sanashankar · Sep 22, 2015

dcontroversal said:

So u mean to say that God failed in creating a perfect Adam and Eve who could have NOT sinned. There was something wrong in the creation of God, that he couldnt create Adam and Eve in such a way that even they have free will, they couldnt have been powerful not to sin??????????????????

Jesus was in the flesh, yet he did not sin, why not Adam???So there is something wrong in the creation of the first man???????I don't believe it.

Sanashankar · Sep 22, 2015

onlinebuddy said:

The Hebrew in Genesis 1:27 is in the indefinite, not the PAST tense. Here are the words directly from an Hebrew Interlinear:

"An He is creatING [present, progressive, future tense--not 'creatED' as in the King James], the human, in the Image of Him, in the Image of Elohim He creatES [not creatED] him, male and female He creatES them."

Yea, not greek, but Hebrew. Its not necessary to study greek or hebrew to know the word of God. But certain things we have to be sure, right???? After all not one english translation is free of error.

Sanashankar · Sep 22, 2015

Tintin said:

Everything that God made was "very good" for the PURPOSE He created them. These include poisonous mushrooms, poisonous snakes, etc.....

You are saying the creation is/was good. But the scripture says

"For the creature [and/or creation itself] was MADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [that’s God] Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groans and travails IN PAIN until NOW" (Rom. 8:20-22)!

Wow! Let’s see what these words entail from Strong’s GREEK DICTIONARY OF THE NEW TESTAMENT:

VANITY: empty, profitless, vain, transientness [temporary], depravity [wickedness].

BONDAGE: slavery, subjection, subserviency.

CORRUPTION: shrivel, wither, spoil, ruin, deprave, defile, destroy, decay, perish

GROAN: moan, calamity, be in straits, murmur, grief, grudge, anguish.

TRAVAIL: pangs, to pain together, travail as in birth.

PAIN: anguish, toil for daily subsistence, starving.

It was God HIMSELF Who subjected the whole creation to vanity, and He didn’t ask anyone’s permission before He did it. And it is only God Himself Who will deliver the whole creation from the bondage of corruption, pain, and suffering.

Sanashankar · Sep 22, 2015

onlinebuddy said:

They were given a "choice", but God knew beforehand that they would choose to sin?????????Where is free will in that?????

onlinebuddy said:

Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The words of God, not Satan.....

carolb · Sep 22, 2015

onlinebuddy said:

Let's first take a step back. Why did God create male & female (plural), on the sixth day (verse 27), after the end of the 5th day (Gen chp 1 vs 23). Then chp 31. He rested on the 7th, then created Adam on the 8th day. God splits this creation of man.

posthuman · Sep 22, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

similar story here --

http://www.theseason.org/topical/earth_ages.htm

written by one Roger D. Christopherson

the website has links to Shepherd's Chapel (Arnold Murray's church) - this guy believes Adam & Eve had literal sex with the serpent in the garden. don't think that's an LDS idea - not sure what JW think about that. but it's certainly not generally accepted doctrine.

posthuman · Sep 22, 2015

carolb said:

eternally-gratefull said:

this pre-existence idea, universal fatherhood, and the 1/3 of humanity following Satan is mormon, but mormons would say the choice was made before being 'born of woman' in the first place, then toss in some sort of samsara-like levels of earth & heaven within which to work out that choice on the way to self-deification, and wouldn't say people were 'created' on any day, believing conscious life to be eternal (self-contradictory with the whole 'fatherhood' idea). at least not if they knew their doctrine and were being careful with what they say. but then they are happy to re-define words on the fly anyway..

this is an odd mix for sure.

carolb where are you being taught this?
what's your affiliation, if you have one?
i don't think this comes straight outta the scripture itself.

Discussing the Garden of eden event

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