Can liars and thieves still make heaven?

JesusName1 · Aug 31, 2015

No NEW born again Christian believes on once saved always saved. At first they want to do anything and everything that makes God happy. But, when they slip up they're assured by the church that nothing they do will keep them out of heaven. You have to repent else you will get further and further away from God.

StandingFirmInChrist · Sep 22, 2015

atwhatcost said:

You just described the Apostle Paul. LoL

The fact is, many assemblies do have pastors who lie to their congregaitons, telling them that God requires them to tithe their money to the Church.

Are we supposed to turn a blind eye to such thievery? My Bible says to reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. It also says them that sin, rebuke before all.

If a family member is heading down a road that you know has thieves waiting around the corner to ambush him and rob him, do you not warn him? Do you not present the truth about the dangers on the road? or do you just ignore the fact that he will soon be overcome by thieves?

The fact is, we'd better stand for truth when truth is presented to us. And we need to declare truth to those who are in error as well. Revelation declares that it is not just those who lie who will be excluded from God's Kingdom, but also those who embrace the lies. We should buy the truth and sell it not. If we reject truth, it is detrimental to our eternal state after we leave this life here on Earth.

Yet · Sep 22, 2015

NotmebutHim said:

Ok here we go:

Abraham lied
Jacob lied and cheated
David cheated, lied and murdered (to get Bathsheba)
Matthew was a tax collector working for the Romans, but he became one of Christ's disciples
Zaccheus was the same, but he repented and restored fourfold to all those he had cheated
The tax collector at the temple said "God be merciful to me, a sinner!"
Peter denied Christ three times
Moses killed an Egyptian
Miriam doubted Moses' and Aaron's words
Paul (when he was Saul of Tarsus) was a fierce and relentless persecutor of Christians

I believe that answers your question.

You are confusing those that repent and those that never do.....aren't You?

Yet · Sep 22, 2015

valiant said:

Heaven will be full of liars and thieves. EVERY MAN LIVING is a liar and thief. It is part of what man is. But the ones that will be in Heaven are the ones on whom God has had mercy and whom He has wooed to Himself, giving them new life so that gradually they have become more honest and less deceitful.

I wonder how many liars among us can look back over the past year and say, 'I have not in any way deceived anyone in any way, I have not withheld from anyone what was their full due, and I have not done anything except speak and reveal the full truth in all matters'? (The answer is only those whose conscience is blunted).

But thank God our eternal salvation does not depend on whether we have lived scrupulously truthfully and honestly (if it did few would be saved), it depends on the fact that our Lord Jesus Christ is our Saviour and is working within us to make us scrupulously true and honest, and will finally do so.

Simple answer!![/QUOTE

To try to clear this up,again. Context folks. The average Christian sins and repents. We have an advocate with with the Father.

Im talking about all the hirelings. One in almost every church building in America lying to the people about the false tithe for the gain of filthy lucre. A life time on easy street on the widows dime as well as the poor.
Dont go into a tirade on how hard your hireling has to work and he deserves that salary. I've been around the block some and the hirelings I know on a first name basis are the laziest men I have ever seen.
Id drop in on one now and then for years and he was either fixing to go fishing or golfing or on another vacation, I couldn't keep track.

Hard re work to load that new camper I guess.

' Yet, you are always putting 'pastors' down'. You bet. And I always will...thieves and liars. Paul called them wolves. Jesus called them snakes. Matt. 23 I simply call them hirelings.

'The thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy. Go read that in context. It's NOT talking about the devil as the hirelings have told you from the pulpit. It's talking about them! John 10:10 Shock! Shock!

.

Sanashankar · Sep 22, 2015

Yet said:

Not only liars and thieves but even the FEARFUL (cowards), wont enter the kingdom of God.

Rev 21:8
[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]But [/FONT]the fearful[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif], and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

(In btwn,Im a person who believe God will save all the humanity by making them repent and come to the knowledge of God.)[/FONT]

Yet · Sep 22, 2015

Proverbs 30:6 and 8. Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Remove far from me vanity( excessive self importance) and lies...

The hireling bathes in both! But the time is coming, I hope, when God will raise up shepherds after His heart! Oh happy day that will be. When the righteous oversee, the folks will rejoice for joy!

Budman · Sep 22, 2015

It never ceases to amaze me how many people stumble over the simplicity of the gospel.

Either Christ paid for the sins of the whole world, or He didn't. Either all sin is covered by the blood or none of it is. Either God's sacrifice for sin is a one-time only occurrence, or Jesus must keep going back to the cross.

We will remain forgiven sinners for the rest of our mortal lives.

Yet · Sep 22, 2015

Budman said:

It will never cease to amaze me how people can think that grace and forgiveness is a license for sin. Simply fill out the amount on the check and have a good time.
By the way I really love proverbs. Don't understand half of them but the other half just blesses little ole pea pickin' me all to pieces. Knowwhatimean Vern?

Budman · Sep 22, 2015

Yet said:

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid!" (Romans 6:1-2)

I would question the salvation of anyone who uses forgiveness as a licence to sin without reservation. Yet, we will sin - every single day - because we are still in the flesh and wrestle with it.

That's why salvation must be (as it is described throughout the New Testament) a gift. And it's also why Jesus paid the price for every single sin of the world. We can't earn forgiveness in any way, nor can we earn it's permanence.

It's all of Jesus, or it's none.

Yet · Sep 22, 2015

Nuff said. The basics are elementary. A given, as it were...and as it is.

DiscipleDave · Sep 22, 2015

Budman said:

Tell me, should i believe what you say (teachings of men) or what Scriptures teach (teachings of God)?

1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him (claim to be SAVED), and walk in darkness (knowingly and willingly live in sin), we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But IF (Conditional) we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Now according to you (man) His Blood cleanseth you no matter what, right? Yet the Word of God teaches that it is only when a person is walking in the light (not in darkness) that His Blood cleanseth them. So then should i believe you or the Word of God for Eternal Life? What then? Because you do not agree with the Word of God, now you must go about to interpret that verse to mean something else? Something other than what it plainly says? Now you need to take that verse to the Hebrew and Greek and try to get ANOTHER interpretation, something that it is suppose to really mean. That is what this generation is good at, is it not. Don't agree with the the Holy Inspired Scriptures, so interpret it to mean something that you do agree with, right? God forbid, and there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth when the wrath of God comes upon this world.

Repentance is what Jesus offers to ONLY those who Truly REPENT. Those who Truly Repent DO NOT continue to do the very deed they repented of, they cease from that sin, because they are TRULY sorry for that sin, and DO NOT commit it again. Those who continue to live in sins, even though they repent for the same sin over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. HOW SORRY ARE THEY? They are not, they have no plans to cease from that sinning, they continue to sin and still think they are on the narrow and difficult path that leads to life everlasting, they are deceived and do not know the Truth.
One who Truly Repents (repents and ceases) is the one that will receive forgiveness from Jesus Christ, and be made clean. But woe unto those who play in the mud all the while yelling to convince others and self, that they are clean, washed. These have altogether been forgiven by Jesus Christ, but returns to eat their own vomit (filthiness) again. They have not put off the old man with his/her deeds, they (even though they accepted Jesus Christ) live as the old man, all the while claiming with their mouths they are a new man in Christ, their deeds prove to whom they serve. Is it not written your master is to whom you obey? How will they escape His wrath? They say they follow and worship Jesus Christ, yet they knowingly and willingly obey His enemy, and not just on occasion, but continually obey His enemy the devil when they knowingly and willingly choose to commit sin against Jesus Christ, denying His help to overcome that temptation, and what does the Word say about those who deny Christ? Better start getting into the Word of God, time is running out, and even now is upon us.

^i^ responding to post 87

DiscipleDave · Sep 22, 2015

Budman said:

The answer is "NO"

Budman said:

And where in all of Scriptures does it teach what you (man) just said? Jesus told and man and a woman to "Go and sin no more" The Apostles plainly taught to get rid of the sin that so easily besets you, and put off the deeds of the old man, and Good trees does not produce bad fruits. You teach things contrary to Scriptures, and think you know the Truth. Here is the Truth, but you will utterly reject it: i do not knowingly or willingly commit any sin, i do all things to please Jesus Christ whom i serve.

Budman said:

Salvation is a gift, when a person comes to Christ, no matter how filthy or sinful they may be, they at that time receive the Gift. The problem is you think you receive that gift on a daily bases. Scriptures teach He went to the cross for you ONCE, so that your sins that are past are forgiven you.

Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAST, through the forbearance of God;

NO, not this generation, this generation teaches this verse to say this.

Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, present, and future, through the forbearance of God;

altogether CHANGING the Scriptures to fit their own beliefs, and NOT changing their beliefs to match with Scriptures. Salvation is a Gift, that Gift is NOT given on a daily basis. That Gift is given to a person the moment they repent and accept Jesus into their life, and start calling Him LORD. But many who receive that Gift will continue to play in the mud, they will continue to eat their own vomit (filthiness) and then one day these same people who at one time had received the Gift of Salvation will say "Lord, Lord have we not gone to Church every Sunday, have we not been cleansed by Your Blood, are we not under Grace, have we not accepted you as our Savior and Lord?" Then He will say to them "I never knew you, because you practiced (continued in) sin" A good tree does not produce any bad fruits. If a tree produces hundreds of good fruits, yet that same tree produce a bad fruit, it is a bad tree, because of the bad fruit that it committed.

Budman said:

Again teachings of men. Scriptures teach.

Heb_5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY HIM;

But you say, there is nothing you have to do. Scriptures teach we have to obey Him, in order to have Eternal Life. And what does Jesus Command us to do (DO) LOVE ONE ANOTHER. Therefore you must DO what He commands if you want to have Eternal Life, as does all of Scriptures teach. So then should i believe you, or the Word of God and what it plainly teaches?

Budman said:

i agree. So tell me, when you knowingly and willingly do that which you know full well is sinful, wicked, and evil. Where is Jesus then? You either obey all of Jesus or not. You are either an obedient child of God or you are a disobedient child of God which the wrath of God is coming.

When i am tempted to commit a sin, i immediately go into prayer. i immediately think on Jesus, and ask Him for His Power and Strength against that temptation. And the temptation leaves me. Are you saying that this method is IMPOSSIBLE to do for you?

Consider the Word of God.

1Co_10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Know you not what that is Inspired by God verse is saying? There is no temptation that comes upon you that is so strong that you (YOU) can't handle it. AND on top of that, it teaches that with EVERY temptation that comes upon you, Jesus allows a path out of it.

So then when a person is tempted to commit a sin that they know full well is sinful, and commit that sin, they did not try to fight it, they did NOT seek Jesus for help, they did NOT look for the path out of it that Jesus provided them. Do you know why they committed the sin, because they WANTED to, they love to commit that sin, What person willingly commits a sin that they hate to do? They only hate it AFTER they do it, but not before they do it, if they hated it before they did it, they would not do it. This wicked generation makes excuses saying they are weak, the flesh is weak. What do you think i have super flesh? My flesh is weak, my flesh desires to have sex. But He that lives in me give me the power to overcome my flesh. Do you think i have been celibate now over 8 years because my flesh is STRONG? my flesh is weak as yours is. But Jesus lives in me, and helps me to overcome the desires of my evil and wicked flesh. Jesus is All or Nothing as you say, and that is True. i could not walk in the light as Jesus did, if it were not for Jesus living in me, to help me to overcome temptations that come upon me. Every single message to the 7 churches teach about those who OVERCOME. Woe to this generation who thinks they are SAVED and have to overcome nothing at all, that only believing is enough. The demons believed. Those who call Jesus "Lord" in His parable also believed. Is it not written that a person could not call Jesus "Lord" unless by the Holy Ghost. These people called Jesus "Lord" and by the Holy Ghost they did so, yet on Judgment Day will be rejected by Him, because they continued to live in sins, and did not cease from them.

Here is the narrow and difficult path, that leads to life everlasting: "Love One Another, and go and sin no more" Look to Jesus to help you to LOVE, Look to Jesus to help you to stop obeying satan. If i can do it, i assure you, i am in the same weak flesh that you are in, if i can do it, so can you. All things are possible to them that believe, all things are possible to them that KNOW GOD.

Disagree with me? Then show me any Scripture which is contrary to what i have said above. If then you can't show me Scriptures, then it is merely your belief that contradicts what i said above. Search the Scriptures and see that what i have said above is what the Scriptures also teach. Forget what men has taught you, forget what you think is the Truth, search and believe the Scriptures and what they say and teach. As long as you hold on to a belief that is contrary to any verse in Scriptures, then you will NEVER Come to the Truth. But here is Good News, now you know the Truth. The choice is to either reject it or embrace it.

^i^ responding to post #89

seed_time_harvest · Sep 22, 2015

Yet said:

the spirit was born of GOD and immediately sealed and cannot sin because we were born of incorruptible seed.

We are housed in flesh which has not been glorified yet but it will be glorified before we enter into heaven.

carolb · Sep 22, 2015

Yes they can, as long as they repent. The other two men who hung on the cross belong the sides of Jesus, one of them was a thief and asked Jesus to save him & Jesus did. He repented. As long as you truly mean it in your heart. You can't con God.

Budman · Oct 4, 2015

DiscipleDave:

The Bible declares those who are saved are righteous. How can we be righteous and guilty at the same time? Was our entire atonement accomplished at the cross or not?

If all sin (past, present, and future) was forgiven at the cross, what is the point of trying to retain your salvation through works?

If salvation truly is a gift as described in Scripture, then trying to keep it through any effort of ours negates that gift. We obey through gratitude for what Christ has done, not out of obligation.

StandingFirmInChrist · Oct 5, 2015

Ri do good works. Not in order to attain Salvation. Rather, I do good works because I am saved.

Malu · Oct 5, 2015

seed_time_harvest said:

Do we think we are righteous? Do we think we are not sinners? We have been made righteous and any body else can by his grace. No one can make it to heaven by his/her own. Only by believing in Chirist we can.

DiscipleDave · Oct 6, 2015

Budman said:

The Bible plainly teaches that those who do righteousness are righteous, and those who do unrighteousness are unrighteous.

1Jn_2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that DOETH righteousness is born of him.

1Jn_3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOETH righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Believe ALL Scriptures, not just some of them.

You can't pick and choose which verses you will believe and which ones you will not believe. Please read this article which shows many verses which teach what it means to be Righteous, but be forewarned, you might come to the Truth and realize you will have to start DOING that which is considered Righteous, in order to be Righteous.

Budman said:

At the cross, you became righteous, all your sin that were past were forgiven unto you, as it is written:

Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Because of His righteousness, we are forgiven when we TRULY REPENT. When we accept Him as our Savior and Lord, His righteousness made us RIGHTEOUS, clean, white as snow, HOLY, Just, PURE, unblameable, PERFECT. NEW man in Christ, a New Creation. UNTIL we go back to play in the mud, UNTIL we choose to eat our own vomit again, UNTIL we choose to continue to do the deeds of the old man. Do you claim to be a new man in Christ, yet continue to do the deeds of the old? How then are you not the old man? If Christ be in you, He is your strength and power against satan when he comes tempting you. Hebrews 6:4-6 is not written there in vain. Christ went to the cross for you ONCE, to forgive you of your sins that are past, only men of this generation teach past , present, and future, which thing the Word of God does not teach, only men teach that., if you think the Bible does then reveal the Scriptures that teach it.

Budman said:

This is what you believe, NOT what Scriptures teach. Scriptures does NOT teach that at the time of you accepted Jesus Christ, that all your sins past, PRESENT, and FUTURE are forgiven. That is a doctrine of men, and does not come from Scriptures. Is it not written that Jesus paid the penalty for our sin, was punished for it? Yes this is True of our past sins once we accpeted Him. After you accept Jesus as your Savior and Lord, YOU will pay the punishment of your own sins thereafter, this is evident because of the verses that plainly teach, you reap what you sow, and if you sow to the flesh you shall of that flesh reap corruption, and if you do wrong you will be repaid for the wrong which you do, and also it is written Tribulation and Anguish upon every soul that does evil. If Jesus took the punishment for your sins at the cross for all your sins past, present and future, then why are these verses written to Christians? Here is the Truth, at the cross Jesus paid the price and took the punishment for all your sins that were PAST, What you choose to do thereafter is on you. You will reap what you sow, if you do evil, you will be punished, if you do good, you will be blessed, this is how God was, is, and will be to come. Does that mean He does not forgive? Heavens no. If a person Truly repents of a particular sin, even though that person him/herself will pay the consequences of that sin, can be forgiven of it, and remembered no more, But that is ONLY if they Truly repent of that particular sin. Any person that continues to do the same sin over and over and over again without ceasing from is, tell me, how sorry is that person? If they NEVER cease from it? they aren't. They are NOT Truly repentant of that sin, even if they repent of it via their mouth. Repentance is a heart issue. If they continue to do the very sin they repented of, they are NOT sorry, a person who is truly repentant of a particular sin, will cease to do that sin ever again, because they are Truly sorry for doing that against God.

Budman said:

Salvation is a gift, Anyone who comes to Jesus can receive it. That does not mean that EVERYONE who accepted Jesus and got SAVED, will be taken up with Him in the Rapture (The event described in the Bible where Jesus comes and gets His Church). Just because someone walks up the isle, confesses, repents, and believes in Jesus, does not mean they will remain SAVED for all eternity. Many and i say MANY claim Jesus is their Savior, yet their master is the devil.

Any Gift given to someone freely, if not maintain, will fade and wither away. Why do you think this is written:

Tit_3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Tit_3:14 And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

How many times do you think Christ goes to the cross for you? He did that ONCE. How many times do you think He takes stripes for your sins? He did that ONLY ONCE. You pay your own after that.

If anything i have said above is contrary to any Scriptures, then show the Scripture. What i tell you is what has been revealed to me by God, these things i teach are not from me, nor from my own thinking. What i teach is not from men (myself) it is from God. What i teach does not contradict ANY Scriptures, only contradicts your own belief of what YOU think the Truth is. But i have not failed to tell you what HE has told me, it is your choice if you want to believe HIM, or continue to believe what you believe is the Truth, even though that Truth does not line up with Scriptures. Oh that Truth may have a verse or two that seems to support your belief, but then there are the other verses that do NOT support that belief.

If this generation will only listen to these words given to me by God

"If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures, then what you believe is WRONG"

So then if you believe something, yet there is a verse that contradicts that belief, then your belief is WRONG. Let God be True and His Word TRUE, and what men teach and believe to be lies and false.

Interpretations belong to God, not to men.

^i^ Responding to post # 95

seed_time_harvest · Oct 6, 2015

Brother_J_BELGIUM said:

I think we are in agreement if you are saying that those who have been reborn are righteous and those who have not been reborn are not righteous.

seed_time_harvest · Oct 7, 2015

JesusName1 said:

There is sin consciousness and then there is righteousness consciousness.

Can liars and thieves still make heaven?

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